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Fallenapart
08-13-2009, 08:54 AM
I am predominantly the main tank on most of our guilds runs. However, there are times when I like to switch over to dps and do something different. I have reviewed many posts regarding the Arms mantra. Our guild usually has an arms warrior in raids who can do 4k to 4.5k dps on 25 mans. I dont know what he is doing to get that number, when I am doing the same thing and struggling to get half of that. I know I have the rotation down. I believe I have the build and gear and gem/enchants headed in the right direction, but I feel I am missing something cause I am only in the 2k to 2.5k range. Could anyone please offer some advice? I would greatly appreciate it.

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Azjol-Nerub&n=Fallenapart)

Thanks,
Fallenapart

Halgreg
08-13-2009, 11:07 AM
Hi Fallen,

What is your current Armor % from your gear? (not including battle stance and mace spec?)

I noticed that you are not hit capped, and that your expertise is a bit higher than it needs to be. Your expertise does not benefit you (as long as you always attack from behind) past Expertise 26.

Your crit is also slightly low, but I'd focus more on trying to get your ArPen % to 30% (before gemming) first.

In regards to your spec, take the 5/5 points from unbridled wrath, and put it in your commanding presence. If you are guaranteed blessing of might or another fury warrior has this already, then you can put those points into weapon mastery (and reduce your expertise from gear to make room for more ArPen) or I dunno...maybe improved bloodrage. Unbridled Wrath will not help you too much.

--Hal

Fallenapart
08-13-2009, 11:28 AM
Hey Halgreg,

My current Arp % is roughly 32% without battle stance, mace spec. The precentage I am qouting you you is without gems/enchants on new chest I picked up which was an upgrade to the Teir 7 I had on and gemed/enchancted.

I am not quite certain as to my arp percentage prior to gem or enchants. I need to work on calculating that out.

I will swap out my exp gems for hit then and that should help the hit rating I hope.

So you are saying it should be more like this?
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#LIr0bfIzxbbRdGuioGx00hZb)

Could you recommend gem and placement?

Also, I just picked up the Edge of Ruin. Should I switch to Axe spec and ditch Iron Soul and the mace spec? That would help with the additional 5% on crit, but would it really hurt loosing that 15% Arp? I am torn. I guess I am just in that void between Stacking strenghth or Arp and Mace vs Axe.

Thanks again,
Fallen

Gorca
08-13-2009, 01:12 PM
Hi Fallenapart,
NEVER spec for mace, always spec for axe (big yes to the edge of ruin-berserking enchant). That's why your crit is so low, and your crits aren't hitting as hard as they should.
You have grim toll, so gem until you have 40% ArP from gear, or less if you're using hearty rhino food (the 10% from battle stance +50% from grim toll procs = ArP cap)- after that gem Strength all the way, you can usually ignore all but the best socket bonuses. Make sure someone keeps sunders up (even if its you :) ).
All expertise past 26 is wasted. Actually capping Exp isn't quite as necessary in Arms as it is for other specs due to overpower procs. My expertise is at 21 and I get over 5k in non-gimmicked fights. Your hit rating is fine as-is.
I would move points into Commanding presence, and keep the rest of your spec the same.
Mods that help you with procs can really help your dps. I use Satrina's Buff Frames to let me know when Sudden Death or Taste for Blood procs and keep track of Rend.
I hope this helps a bit.
Cheers,
Gorca

Halgreg
08-13-2009, 01:14 PM
In terms of ArPen %, you will want to at least be 30% prior to gem or enchants on your gear. After gem and enchants, you will want to reach around 40~42% to make it to 100% ArPen when your Grim Toll procs. If you can afford to, I would encourage you to continue to gem for ArPen until you reach around 55-57%. Ideally, you'd want to reach 100% passive ArPen so you can replace the Grim Toll with a different DPS trinket, but if you're only part time Arms (like me) then you probably don't get the best share of DPS plate. That's fine...just do the best with what you can get.

In terms of Exp and Hit, you don't need a whole lot more hit to reach the cap. In fact, you only need 17 more hit rating. Keep your Expertise at 26, then go with this spec: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#LIr0bfIt00bRdGuioGx00xb)

You may have noticed that I put points into Axe spec instead of Mace spec. That's because I highly recommend Axes because of the boost to your crit and crit damage. Use that Edge of Ruin!

Fallenapart
08-13-2009, 01:30 PM
Hi Gorca,

Thank you for the advice.

I will be respecing tonight after work to axes.

Maybe I am wrong and I hope I am but I am not seeing how I can hit 40% Arp with the gear I have. Am I still to low for the Arp stacking?

I am definilty going to try out the hearty rhino snacks. I guess I got attached to fish feasts. :-)

I am very good at keeping sundors up, since my main spec and function is main tank. Now if I drop the expertise gems that I do have will i still have enough expertise?

When I respec tonight for the mace spec, I will move points into Commanding Presence as follows:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#LhrcbfIt00bRdGuiohxb0xb:msqVzo)

As far as procs I use the following addons specifically when I am in arms:

StrongArms - Addons - Curse (http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/strongarms.aspx)

I am also running Xperl and MSBT and watching for procs and dropoffs for either specs.

Hopefully, those will work, but I will work on Satrina's Buff Frames this weekend.

Thanks,

Fallen

Fallenapart
08-13-2009, 01:42 PM
Halgreg,

You have sold me on the Axe. I don't know what I was thinking. I might have been reading to many posts on the Arp pen stacking and found myself cuttiog corners with the mace spec. I admit it. I truly get the whole Arp stacking and grim toll and all of that. I am still not clear after hours of reading posts here and on Elletist jersks. By the way nice doc on the arms/tank spec. I cant find the ratio for arp conversion. It should be on the Quick and Dirty Arms guide. Ex. If I have 287 in arp from gear alone (without gems/enchancts and epic arp underroos) what does that convert into percentage wise? Once I knew the ratio then I could easily gauge where I am at and how the other sublte arp's fit into achieving arp cap without grim proc, etc.

On a side note, should I replace my crit trinket with the greatness card?

Thanks again,
Fallen

Gorca
08-13-2009, 01:51 PM
Hi Fallenapart,
Your gear (with Edge of Ruin) has 309 ArP rating = 25% (dividing by 12.3)
You have 12 sockets (2 of which can be puissant gems to keep your Meta bonus)
10*20 + 2*10=220= 18%, with ArP food you have 21%
21+25=46% before battle stance, so you have room to get some strength gems in there.
Yeah, I'm using the expensive gems ;).
You really need to drop a lot of expertise, more than from your gems alone. If you get above 20, you're probably fine.
You're proposed spec is good. If you find yourself with plenty of rage, move two points into booming voice.
I've never used StrongArms but I've heard its priority rankings are a bit weird. I use Rend>SD>OP>MS>BS>Slam unless low on rage, then I change the places of OP and SD.
Hope this helps.

edited for spelling

Fallenapart
08-13-2009, 02:33 PM
Gorca,

Thank you so much for the secret number. It all makes sense now. "divide by 12.3" was the missing piece for me.

I am assuming with the axe spec change comes with it 5% crit and when doing the numbers I would be at 31% crit is that still to low or would it be better to use a couple crit gems instead of the strength or both?

Don't you love spending other peoples money? :-) I know I do.

For clarification the priority order for rotation would look like this correct?

Rend>Sudden Death>Over Power>Mortal Strike>Blade Storm>Slam unless low on rage, then I change the places of Over Power and Sudden Death. If I find I am over 70% rage then Heroic Strike were applicable especially prior to Blade Storm.

I really hope I interpreted your rotation correctly cause I don't see Execute. If that is true then my addon really doesn't interpret the rotation correctly.

Thanks,
Fallen

Gorca
08-13-2009, 06:13 PM
Hi Fallenapart,
Your crit should be at around 35% or higher after raid buffs, so at 31% you should be fine.
SD=sudden death=execute, go ahead and spam it when target is at low health.
I use this tool all the time for calculating armor penetration:
Simple ArPen calculator (http://eu-warrior.com/arpen.html)
It will have to do until Landsoul updates his spreadsheet for 3.2. Use it.
Warrior DPS Calculation Spreadsheet - Elitist Jerks (http://elitistjerks.com/f81/t37462-warrior_dps_calculation_spreadsheet/)

Yeah, I didn't include Heroic Strike. I should have, but honestly I tend to forget to use it myself, even at high rage. I'm working on that.
Bladestorm is for when MS is on CD, and TfB(overpower) and SD have not procced and when you have at least 6 seconds left on Rend.
Cheers,
Gorca