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View Full Version : Hit Rating and tanking. How Important?



Candyfloss
08-10-2009, 09:36 AM
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bloodscalp&n=Zilltoid)
This is my armory link to start with.

I have read a lot that being Hit and Exp capped is key for threat generation. Knowing this I have seen many very geared tanks that are way below hit cap(assuming it is 263). I've also noticed that tanks stack expertise over the cap rather than adding more hit. My question is, "Should I continue trying to stay near the hit cap of 263 or can I let it slide down to 170 or so and stack more expertise and add more stam to my tanking set?"

Miagorme
08-10-2009, 10:16 AM
Hit's for threat, expertise is for making sure you don't get owned by parry gibbing. My expertise is low, but I got sick of missing taunts and disease application, so I let my expertise slide. I haven't gotten parry gibbed yet.

Thedom
08-10-2009, 10:34 AM
Expertise is twice as effective at minimizing missed attacks (hit removing miss and expertise removing dodge and parry) until you reach the expertise soft cap at 26 (removing dodges) at this point expertise is still as effective as hit until the hit cap (which I can't remember off the top of my head) while expertise still has the benefit of reducing the chance of a parry gib. This is why many tanks stack expertise over hit in many cases. As mia said tho hit has the added benefit of helping with taunt.

Sorry for the mass of parentheses but I always like to clarify what I'm attempting to say. In the end they are both effective at improving your threat and your tanking "ability" so to say but for pure threat expertise wins out until the soft cap.

Insahnity
08-10-2009, 10:44 AM
You should qualify your statement for tanks grabbing expertise over hit. For bears/warriors/blood, this was true, as most threat comes from bashing people over the head. Expertise is more valuable than hit there.

Pre 3.2, paladins relied more on hit than expertise, because abilities were much like spells, hit was an issue but expertise wasn't in the calculation. In 3.2, paladin abilities like vengeance, etc. can now be dodged or parried, so expertise has become equally important for paladins.

Not sure on Unholy DKs, if they played around with DK abilities to be reliant on expertise as well.

It is also important to note, Frost Strike for Frost DKs can now be dodge/parried/etc. in 3.2, so expertise has a bigger impact on Frost builds as well.

Miagorme
08-10-2009, 11:19 AM
Expertise is pretty important for blood DK's due to all of our melee attacks. I'd imagine it's the same for Frost and Unholy as well, since now every Strike can be parried.

Thedom
08-10-2009, 02:41 PM
Well I attempted to give warrior advice to another warrior if anything I said in relation to warriors is wrong please help me to correct myself I do not wish to mislead anyone just attempting to help out by clarifying the differences with expertise and hit. Also I did clarify in situations where taunt is important the hit gets a very nice added benefit over expertise but for pure threat (again for warriors and without consideration of hit helping taunt) expertise is twice as effective until the soft cap or thats what I have always read so if that has changed please explain.

Candyfloss
08-10-2009, 06:19 PM
This was posted as a warrior thread. Thank you for the responses and any more input will be greatly appreciated. Please keep the subject on Warrior Tanking though.

From what I've experienced and read thus far, I gather that hit cap is going to be best for off tanks perhaps. Off tanks grabbing adds and what not. Ignis being an example of this. And for main tanks trying to maintain aggro on the boss, expertise will be best above and beyond the soft cap of 26. I see many warrior tanks with 160-170 hit rating and upwards of 35 expertise. Where I've been hit capped and have around 21 expertise depending on what gear I'm wearing at the time since I off tank more times than not. Does this all look accurate? Thanks again for the replies and again, please try and keep this a Warrior Tanking thread.

Gumurak
08-10-2009, 07:22 PM
Take a look at my armory. 263 hit cap, and 26 expertise. My threat is ridiculous and my dps is alright. Survivability suffers a bit but is made up for with effective health. Simple fact of the matter is hit rating is directly imparitive for warrior tanking in threat. But not necissary for you to hit the cap. 26 expertise and decent hit rating will do miles of justice for your threat. Even if you arent having issues.

None of which I have is a requirement but I decided to try it anyways. I managed to balance both and for my playstyle it works beautifully. I never have threat issues. While I do have some survivability issues at times because I went with block to not keep it so low.

Purely they are making dodge effectively the best stat for mitigation. however if you look at the new gear. You can easily do block and still wind up with high dodge ratings, but I do this because I have dps warriors that are able to keep the other shouts up. And they spec'd into it approrpriatly.

Block isn't gone, it just wasn't prefered for ulduar because how hard they hit. But you don't have to to switch in some of the new instances. Therefore I just keep block at a safe distance and still useable. But still glyph for shield wall and gear for dodge.

In either to make this work a sufficent amount of threat is required to keep dps high and on the snap rather than making them wait. The faster I can bring it to the target the faster it dies. Hence the hit rating needed and the forced expertise soft cap.

Salion
08-10-2009, 07:42 PM
I've also noticed that tanks stack expertise over the cap rather than adding more hit.

Keep in mind that there are actually two expertise caps for bosses. The soft cap of 26 Expertise removes dodge from the combat table. The hard cap removes parry from the combat table. I've heard some debate about how much expertise is needed for parry, but Satrina's FAQ in the Theory section says it's 56 expertise. Personally, I like to keep stacking expertise over the soft cap rather than hit because it does reduce the chance of parry gibs.

On a somewhat related note, for those who mentioned taunt misses: I'm not sure if this is still true, but taunt used to be on the spell hit table. There's a greater base chance to miss on this table, which is somewhat offset by each hit rating granting a greater % chance to miss. So to ensure that taunt wouldn't miss, you'd need a lot more +hit gear or the taunt glyph. This might warrant consideration on taunt sensitive fights, although I've never paid it much mind.