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Ciderhelm
08-06-2009, 06:11 AM
oEcCItDmIz0

http://www.tankspot.com/forums/images/snowfall/donorbanner.jpg (http://www.tankspot.com/premium.php)

The UI seen in this video is Lore's UI (http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f211/45772-lore-s-ui.html)

Azhealz
08-06-2009, 07:25 AM
The worst part about this encounter is there is no Down time for anyone to Mana up. People should be aware of that an work with your healz to take as little damage as you can. We 2 tanked an 3 healed this encounter. A Shammy healer is advantageous in the encounter for their Mana regen Totem. Healers need to work with each other in talking when their mana is getting low so that the mana regen totem can be droped. We used Myself (shammy) an Disc priest an a Holy Pally. Be ready to use mana pots if you need to. Flask of Mojo is much better for this fight then Flask of Frost Wrym. Good luck an happy tanking. Thanks for this video. I was gonna try an do one to post here as well, but i dont know what program you all use to copy.

Az/Zeruel

Azhealz
08-06-2009, 07:27 AM
Ohh also. In Phase one it seems the lil kobolds like to go to healz. We dedicated a melle an a range dps to bring them down asap. These encounters where not overly difficult like some in Uld, but if people try to play hero in this fight, you wipe the group.

Solasun
08-06-2009, 07:33 AM
Hmm - two things that aren't easily noticed with Lore being a pally DPS usually.

How hard are the bosses hitting on the tanks - and is the second tank relegated to minor dps during Icehowl?

How hard is this on mana? Are my healers likely to run OoM? Ie - This seems to be an endurance fight ?

Sproutster
08-06-2009, 07:45 AM
I also got the 2 Jormungar achievement by accident on Tuesday. At the time we thought they had to be killed together.

The only think I'd like to mention is that we found putting melee on the rooted jormungar and the ranged on the moveable one worked well. The poison clouds weren't really an issue that way.

dagimp007
08-06-2009, 08:08 AM
This fight is yet another retard checker..
if you have people who like to fail at (insert a retardcheck) they will fail in this fight.

if u ready the boss moves it kinda makes it easy to come up with a strat

....By the way good video

Mr.Winkle
08-06-2009, 08:21 AM
This fight is hard on healers, as least in 10man. Both tanks take considerable damage and there is no down time to regen.

The rest of the raid has to avoid all damage to keep the healing manageable.

Ciderhelm
08-06-2009, 08:21 AM
Donor download up.

Gordonoth
08-06-2009, 08:23 AM
"recent studies have shown that standing in fire is a leading cause of severe burns and can even be fatal" lol

Flak
08-06-2009, 08:27 AM
LORE WHAT IS A GERMANGUY?

Also, I tanked this. Worship me.

Kraul
08-06-2009, 08:31 AM
So just curious, where in difficulty would you place this encounter to compared to Udluar normal mode encounters? IF my guild hasn't gotten past Freya yet, is there any point in trying?

MurpyCoke
08-06-2009, 08:33 AM
i would have been there, being the ONLY WARLOCK to do CRAZY DEEPS, but lore and the rest of his jerks didnt feel the need to steam message to get me off of TF2

Dont worship me.

Ciderhelm
08-06-2009, 08:35 AM
So just curious, where in difficulty would you place this encounter to compared to Udluar normal mode encounters? IF my guild hasn't gotten past Freya yet, is there any point in trying?
You'll be fine in Coliseum, at least this first encounter. Try it immediately.

I'd wager the encounter is tuned to people in Naxx 25 gear.

Sproutster
08-06-2009, 08:37 AM
So just curious, where in difficulty would you place this encounter to compared to Udluar normal mode encounters? IF my guild hasn't gotten past Freya yet, is there any point in trying?

This fight is fairly easy to learn. Without knowing anything about this fight ahead of time my 10 man guild (never attempted an ulduar hard mode) was able to learn it pretty quickly. 3 wipes learning phase 1, 3 wipes learning phase 2, 1 shot phase 3.

Selyndia
08-06-2009, 08:42 AM
If my memory serves, bosses hit for about the same as Ulduar stuff did? In the 17-20k range, but thats partly a gut feeling and from remembering to look at the combat text. I never felt in danger of dieing to tank damage, to be honest.

I would rate this somewhere around Iron Council (Brundir Last) in difficulty. The first and third phases are both very simple, the second phase isn't bad if you have an idea ahead of time on how to handle Paralytic Toxin and stick to it. If you can down Naxx 25, and Siege, you should be fine with Beasts.

Azhealz
08-06-2009, 08:45 AM
The tanks to alot of dmg, the OT should be doing dmg while waiting to taunt the first boss off the MT. We never let the stacks get over 4. It is also good to have palli tanks if at all possible as they can pop their shield when the no longer have the boss stacking the debuff on them. I also noticed that our main tank (who is a dwarf) used his stoneskin an that seemed to work on the buff as well. not sure if that is a bug or not, but a word of advice.

Blackwolfe
08-06-2009, 08:54 AM
I might be overthinking this, but...

How do you guys deal with the Acidmaw tank getting the Paralyzing Poison debuff? He can't exactly run to someone with the Burning Bile as that could turn Acidmaw toward the raid.

Azhealz
08-06-2009, 08:59 AM
Have the person with it run to him unless you are able to heal through it.

dagimp007
08-06-2009, 09:01 AM
So just curious, where in difficulty would you place this encounter to compared to Udluar normal mode encounters? IF my guild hasn't gotten past Freya yet, is there any point in trying?


probably around Vezaxs maybe a litle easier... i say this due to the fact that its such a long fight you healers should be close to screaming OOM

dagimp007
08-06-2009, 09:03 AM
I might be overthinking this, but...

How do you guys deal with the Acidmaw tank getting the Paralyzing Poison debuff? He can't exactly run to someone with the Burning Bile as that could turn Acidmaw toward the raid.

In my guild we tank the Deadmaw kinda close to acidmaw so when the acidmaw tank gets hit with the rebuff the Deadmaw tank runs over really quick. the turns him away.

Kyrane
08-06-2009, 09:04 AM
"recent studies have shown that standing in fire is a leading cause of severe burns and can even be fatal" - that made me laugh. First footage i've seen of the raid and it looks pretty cool, can't wait to try it. Nice video.

Tempestas
08-06-2009, 09:06 AM
Note: Icemaw enrages for 15 seconds if someone fails to move from his charge we thank Magical for getting smashed by Icemaw to know this.

Griff
08-06-2009, 09:10 AM
We did this on Tuesday and it was pretty fun to work on an encounter without a strat.

On the 25-man version Icemaw has an ability called headbutt - we were postulating that it splits damage evenly to people in front of him - does this match other people's experience?

Dubzil
08-06-2009, 09:15 AM
I think the main problem that isn't addressed in this video is Acidmaw's poison.
This poison gets on the tank and many raid members, but only the tank seems to get the burning bile, and moving at walking speed to the tank to get the poison off you seems like a bad strategy.

We were just winging it and found the best way was to just burn down acidmaw to not have to deal with the poison, but since it seemed like every time the tank got burning bile was when the AoE thing hit. Also I saw a video from the PTR that when Acidmaw was stationary there was a warlock ranged tanking him, this would allow the 2nd tank to stand with the first tank and get burning bile when Dreadscale did his AoE, then the 2nd tank could run to the raid and dispel the poison.

I think this is possibly the most annoying and hard part about the fight since you can't really have the Dreadscale tank pointing him towards the raid to dispel people.

wjb147
08-06-2009, 09:51 AM
Just wanted to add that in normal 25 man, the first wave boss can be disarmed. So with talents/weapon chains you can get some extra damage debuffs on him. It isn't necessary for normal mode obviously, but for hard mode it could cut your time down a bit (assuming heroic will be disarm-able).

Cross
08-06-2009, 10:53 AM
I just want to add that the comment about dps not being able to attack the kobolds because they are on the dps' back is not entirely true. I can't speak for melee, but as a lock I was able to turn around and dps them off my own back. While not very effective because of their interrupt, it will get them off of you faster than if you weren't helping out. Instant casts and Backlash procs helped out here. Also because of the interrupts made getting them off of healers a priority.

Krenian
08-06-2009, 11:31 AM
Note: So glad it's the 10 man copy we have up. :D Cider and others will understand lol

Tempestas
08-06-2009, 11:55 AM
Dude that was epic I don't know what your talking about!! =P

Kanzer
08-06-2009, 12:09 PM
Note: So glad it's the 10 man copy we have up. :D Cider and others will understand lol

Can we just post the part where Krenian gets his face trampled by Icehowl?

Murdog
08-06-2009, 12:29 PM
Just a side note you say in your guide that switching after 5 stacks of the bleed? doesn't that make for extra unnecessary healing on the tank when he isn't tanking (Some groups might not run with anything to automatically clear the debuff), you can taunt after every 2 stacks and when the bleed drops off taunt and you can make the whole phase go through with only ever having a 2 stack.

I realize some guild might be able to handle the healing of a 5 stack i just thought i would post that a 2 stack is much more healable for ppl not as gear'd.

TheYanger
08-06-2009, 01:30 PM
I may have missed it in the video, and some of the responses made me think others certainly weren't aware, but the 'target the tank' behavior with the debuff is only exhibited by whichever worm is 'above' ground at that time, while the stationary worm is randomly splashing them on the raid. So, when Acidmaw is rooted, if you get poisoned you HAVE to run to the tank, because only the tank will have the fire debuff from Dreadscale, and similarly when Acidmaw is active and dreadscale is rooted, anyone can have the fire debuff, but the tank will always have poison, so you need to run to the tank with the fire. As long as you're properly spread out, you can simplify it all by just saying "If you get debuffed, run to the tank on the active worm" since they'll always have the opposite and either cleanse you, or will desperately need your cleanse (Getting rooted as the tank is not fun)

Shack
08-06-2009, 01:42 PM
LORE WHAT IS A GERMANGUY?

Ha, i was thinking the same thing at first as well.

Separately, I tanked this the other day (on 10 man) and am bit on the lower gear level relative to a lot of people pushing through this - just a few pieces of Uld gear and rest naxx25. For the first boss, we got through him fine, but the tanks had to switch on more like 3 or even 2 stacks of the impale debuff. This could be a healer issue as well, but definitely had some close calls when the stack got to the long end of 3. Just a potential warning, but either way, it can work with earlier (maybe if lesser geared) or later switches.

Krenian
08-06-2009, 01:45 PM
Can we just post the part where Krenian gets his face trampled by Icehowl?

You just HAD to say it huh!?

Jerkface.

Casiterra
08-06-2009, 03:44 PM
Hi, I just wondered what addon is used in the movie of call of the crusader 10 man that shows your enemy's health bars with a nice skin.
couldn't find it anywere if i'm wrong here just say :)

Necromaniacal
08-06-2009, 03:45 PM
This fight is really easy, we managed to 19 man (18 technically) the 25 man version, but alas the video is good, though id argue 5 stacks of impale is a little heavy, we found 3 was safest while 4 was still okay, 5 started killing tanks, we are in pre 25 ulduar HM gear though

Kazeyonoma
08-06-2009, 05:16 PM
Casiterra it's probably Pitbull, Lore's UI is located in our subforum UIs, Interface, Addons -> UI Compilations and look for Lore's UI

Tempestas
08-06-2009, 07:40 PM
You just HAD to say it huh!?

Jerkface.

I lol'd

Corev
08-06-2009, 10:39 PM
Several things I noticed tonight while tanking the 10 man regular version of this encounter. Some of it conflicts slightly with the video, others were just things I did not hear mentioned (not being inflammatory here).

During Gormok, there was no mention whatsoever of his continously stacking buff that increases damage done by 10% for each stack. This part could just be me being anal retentive, but the snobolds were only mentioned in passing. There are exactly 4 snobolds. Once the first is launched, the other 3 are launched at what seemed to be regular intervals and did seem to be entirely random on who they targeted. The video recommended switching at 5 impale stacks, that strikes me as extreme (just my opinion there), we switched at 3 and it kept thing smooth.

During worm phase, at the start of the phase when Acidmaw is partially submerged, I never once recieved the paralytic poison unless he specifically targeted me and cast it (visible cast bar). However, once they switched who was above ground and who was burrowed, I began to take applications of the poison from his regular strikes. One mistake we made at first that others might also make, The paralytic poison, when applied, has a roughly 60 second duration. You do NOT have 60 seconds to get rid of it. I'm saying this off the top of my head so, again, it is opinion and I could be completely wrong, but, around the 40 seconds left mark is where it seems to fully paralyze you.

During Icehowl, one thing I did not hear mentioned in the video at all, but one poster above me did mention, is the headbutt. When he whirl's and knocks all melee back, he would charge me, and hit me with an ability called ferocious headbutt. This ability caused damage ranging from 20-25k and stunned me for 3 seconds. Every single time i was hit with headbutt, splat, dead tank. 25k headbutt followed by 10-15k normal melee swing. Before someone asks, yes i'm absolutely certain this did not happen during the crash/charge portion of the fight.

Anyway, just things I observed and/or noticed during the regular 10 man version of the fight.

Aerona
08-07-2009, 01:18 AM
We did this fight on 10 man on Wednesday and the most trouble we had was on the first guy. We were running with a sub-optimal group with a very bad healer and still managed to pull through it. We didn't notice the stacking buff he gets as a soft-enrage.

Dreadmaw in the second phase would consistently bug when I went near him to pick him up before the "event" started. If I went to him before he moved on his own he would quickly hit me three times in 1 second which would promptly kill me. I found that waiting until he moved alone didn't cause it to happen.

Icehowl was by far the easiest of all of the phases. Heal through the ice breath, dodge the Yeti, and burn him down. Damage on the tank was barely noticable and easily healed.

However:

FAST-FORWARD to earlier this night and we try the fight on 25 man. We tried on tuesday night and had server issues. Half of our raid disconnected on the pull, including me, and still they managed to get the first boss down to 47%. A guild a little ahead of us on Ulduar progression downed him on their first try about 10 minutes before our pull before the servers got very bad.

Tonight we go back in and suddenly the first boss has a stacking buff that causes him to be able to kill a tank in one second if he uses Impale at the same time as a melee swing. At 4 stacks it felt like we were tanking Thorim with 14 lightning charges on him. We checked the combat logs and the numbers he was throwing on us were about:

Impale hits for 25,000.
Melee swing hits for 23,000.

I am in full Ulduar gear (Not all BiS, but not far off) and with every buff except for Fort I have 43,500ish hp. I couldn't have survived that without a cooldown.

That's fine, though. We compensate with burning Heroism and using cooldowns + disarm to kill him before the damage gets unhealable. We down him and the second phase starts.

The worms were about the same on 25 man as they were on 10 man. It seemed like there was a hell of a lot more people getting the green poison debuff but we compensated with me, Dreadmaw's tank, intervening into a group of people heading to me to cancel the debuff. I didn't test to see if the "insta-gib" bug was still in effect if I ran to him before he moved. The worms went down.

Icehowl came out and ran to our other tank, a DK, and killed him instantly. He looked at his combat log and saw two hits: Ferocious Butt and a melee swing in 1 second that killed him outright. He has more hp than I do and about equal stats otherwise.

He had a soulstone and popped up. I taunted Icehowl and held him for about 15 seconds until he did the same to me. I was also soulstoned and popped up. Icehowl did his blast back ability, sent us all to the wall, and we dodged his Yeti tackle and burned him down to 80% or so.

The DK tank picked him up. Keep in mind now that we dodged the yeti tackle so he did not gain the enrage buff. He died from Ferocious Butt and a melee swing before he could get a heal inbetween the two abilities. I pick him up and 15 seconds or so later the same thing happened to me.

Ferocious Butt hits for 27,000.
Melee swing hits for 15,000. (9000 overkill) (24,000 total)

27,000 + 24,000 = 51,000 damage in one second.

We boggled at our combat logs for a while and called it a night. We thought maybe you need to get a lucky dodge or parry but then quickly realized that Ferocious Butt stuns you for 3 seconds so you cannot avoid the hit. We thought you have to chain cooldowns but he uses the ability too often and there is no warning to brace for the hit. We thought about switching off tanks but that posed the same problem.

How did so many guilds do this on tuesday and wednesday and not even mention the Ferocious Butt + melee swing one-second kill in their strategies? We were incredibly unlucky? Are we somehow outgeared? Did they change the encounter? Did it bug up and we had a preview of heroic mode 25?

Or do we just suck?

Shortypop
08-07-2009, 01:43 AM
A couple of 25man thoughts (guild killed Yogg25 for the first time 2 weeks ago - to give you an idea of gear level).

As we had three tanks signed up we decided to all stay tank "just in case". Took us three shots to kill them, but it was messy and some mechanics I don't understand.

P1 - We taunted off at 3 stacks of the debuff, as it seemed tor ramp after that especially by the time he had +40% damage increase or so from snobolds/time/soft enrage. We saved disarms for the last 30% or so to help as well. With three pallys in the raid each was given a tank to bop betwen P1 and P2 to get rid of the bleed.

P2 - was messy, we randomly seemed to have no fire or no poison and lots of the other one, three tanks made things easier for when tanks got paralysed someone else could pick up the mobs. I found targetting a pain as they are very similar colours and /tar macros seem to have a bit of a delay in targetting them, resulting in the odd dead dps.

P3 - was fun! After a couple of bad spike damage our MT rotated his cds after every charge/stun and with some pain suppression we got through without losing any more people.

Just a few random thoughts :)

Edgar
08-07-2009, 08:27 AM
I want to pug this on 10 man so I am trying to understand this as good as possible as I will have to explain this fight to others.

First of all I hope my Naxx25 gear is decent enough. Other than that I have trouble understanding the 2nd phase a little.

I understand that there are 2 debuffs and that you need to get hit by the other debuff to negate your own debuff. When you start to DPS Acidmaw (he's on the ground first I think) the tank and randomly hit people get the slowing debuff and they have to run to the Dreadscale tank to lose the debuff.

What does the Acidmaw tank do? He has to get rid of the debuff doesn't he? He has to get out of the poison clouds.

When the mobs switch, do the tanks stay on their previous mob, or do those switch as well?


Thanks

Jacobus
08-07-2009, 10:20 AM
I thank you Tankspot for uploading this useful video on youtube, but there some info I like to add.

Gorlock the impaler:
He only has 4 Snobolt on his back, after all 4 snobolts are dead. There won't spawn any more.

Dreadscale and Razormaw:
It's not always the Tank who gets burning bile, I was the healer and got it also regulary, this is because aggro resets after they re-emerge from the ground.

Icehowl: Athough his charge is instant kill, if you got killed by his charge he enters in a rage for 10 sec. gaining increase attack power. This should be healed through by the healers.
He also has een beserker rage after a unknown about of time, kicking every 1 out the coleseum, forcing you start all over again.

I hope this information helps for any raids in the future for Tankspot and any other players/guilds who reads this.

Evadd
08-07-2009, 12:10 PM
we had trouble two nights ago while trying this due to ppl who got the paralytic toxin becoming immobile too quickly to get to the dreadscale tank and dying. does it seem to make sense to anyone else to have one other dps (melee, for example; someone with a decent amt of hp) on dreadscale in the beginning to pick up the burning bile debuff and having that person run to the one who gets paralytic poison? if that would work, it'd seem to make more sense than having the person who's about to be paralyzed try to run. any thoughts?

gen13x
08-07-2009, 12:14 PM
It is worth mentioning that Gormok (first boss) can be disarmed, dismantled, hunter disarm(chimera?).

While normally a slight debuff in his damage output isn't that big a deal on an easier boss like this, the larger advantage is the fact that while he is disarmed he cannot Impale the tank. This gives longer periods of times with fewer stacks, and less tank switches.

Arianne
08-07-2009, 12:14 PM
Aerona, it's likely that you were having people die to each Massive Crash. If anyone dies to it, he enrages and hits for 50% additional damage. If no one dies to it then he is stunned for ~10s. If you have people die every time he does Massive Crash then there really isn't a way to beat this fight IMO. If you only have people die to MC once (or maybe twice) then tanks and healers can all blow their cooldowns to have the tank live.

Evadd, Your raid members that got PT were not reacting fast enough. You have about 15s to move to the tank before PT will immobilize you. As stated before, one of the debuffs is always on the tank that is on the worm that's "on top". The other debuff is randomly targeted in the raid. Members of the raid need to be aware that they'll have to move to the tank of the worm that's "on top" and not get too far away from him.

Edge, We have our tanks each tank a particular 'type' rather than a specific mob. One of our tanks always tanks the one that's "on top" and the other always tanks the one that is "submerged".

Here's the write up for my guild's strat:

Jormungers

Acidmaw & Dreadscale

6.97 million HP each (25-man normal)

The two Jormungars alternate between an above ground state and a partially submerged state. One will be above ground free to move and the other will be rooted in place. When above ground, the jormunger will cast their debuff on the tank. While partially submerged, the jormunger will cast their debuff on a random raid member.

While above ground Acidmaw will melee for ~17k on a tank and use the following abilities: Acid Spew, Paralytic Bite and Slime Pool. While partially submerged Acidmaw will Acid Spit, Sweep and Paralytic Spray. Paralytic Bite/Spray afflict affected targets with the Paralytic Toxin debuff.

While above ground Dreadscale will melee for ~17k on a tank and use the following abilities: Molten Spew, Burning Bite and Slime Pool. While partially submerged Dreadscale will Fire Spite, Sweep and Burning Spray. Burning Bite/Spray afflict targets with the Burning Bile debuff.

Both Jormungars while "on top" drop a Slime Pool much like the one Grobbulus lays down. The pool starts out around 5 yard radius and expands to about 20 yards. Kite the Jormungar around the wall of the coliseum making sure that it is pointing toward the wall and not the raid.

NOTE: Every time the Jormungars submerge it is a COMPLETE aggro reset.

When the Jormungars are switching positions you will be able to see the trails they leave behind on the ground. The tanks should locate their new target and get to it ASAP. Melee should stay back and make sure the tank gets aggro before dps'ing.

Targets with Burning Bile will need to move away from each other and/or towards targets with Paralytic Toxin to clean it off. Taking any damage from the Burning Bile will remove the Paralytic Toxin. It only takes about 15 seconds for the Paralytic Toxin to completely paralyze someone.

Round 1 starts when the Jormunger come out of the gate. At this point Acidmaw is partially submerged and Dreadscale is on top. This means that Paralytic Toxin will hit random raid members via Acidmaw's Paralytic Spray and Dreadscale's Burning Bile will only be on the diamond tank. Therefore raid members hit by Paralytic Toxin will have to run next to the diamond tank (but not get in the frontal cone). Then run back to their group once the paralytic toxin has been removed.

When the Jormungers go underground, everyone collapses to the middle and waits for the tanks to pick up their target.

Although the bosses have switched whether or not they're submerged or on top, the tanks stay on the target based on whether it's 'on top' or 'submerged' not based on the mob's name. ie: Tank 1 is on Acidmaw in round 1 and Dreadscale in round two because those are the 'submerged' boss in each round.

At this point Dreadscale is partially submerged and Acidmaw is on top. This means that Paralytic Toxin will hit the tank on Acidmaw (diamond) and the Burning Bile will hit random raid members. The raid member with Burning Bile will have to run to the tank as in round 1 to remove the Paralytic Toxin from the tank (avoid the frontal cone). However, while running towards the tank and back to your group, try to avoid others so that the burning bile doesn't do too much raid damage.

Gnomaldo
08-07-2009, 12:15 PM
Edit: Ignore my post, Jacobus posted the same thing. It really is useful to know, though. :P

Hey, I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but when I was pugging (QQ) this raid with some friends, after the fifth attempt or so on the first phase, we noticed that after awhile, the Snobolds stopped spawning. Meaning, there is a limited number of them, and once you kill them all, no more bombs, no more fires, the rest of the phase is cake. We were watching the Tankspot video on the fight, and although they said attacking Snobolds was a priority, we found it invaluable to know why--that, after the 4 or 5 Snobolds are killed, there won't be any more of them to worry about. Just my two cents. And great job on the video, it really helped us get through it! =)

Erlec
08-07-2009, 12:19 PM
Currently trying to run this with ten man (normal) with ten man ulduar gear. The problem we have is that the one who is tanking the moving worm (dreadmaw first then acidmaw) takes alot of damage (10k melee hits and 3k fire hits) in every 3 seconds. Is there a way to get away from this damage without using resistance (no palas or shamans in raid)

Any other advice to help with the healing?

veneretio
08-07-2009, 12:46 PM
Currently trying to run this with ten man (normal) with ten man ulduar gear. The problem we have is that the one who is tanking the moving worm (dreadmaw first then acidmaw) takes alot of damage (10k melee hits and 3k fire hits) in every 3 seconds. Is there a way to get away from this damage without using resistance (no palas or shamans in raid)

Any other advice to help with the healing?
If you're 2 healing it, go up to 3 healers. At 3 healers, it really shouldn't be an issue.

Erlec
08-07-2009, 12:48 PM
If you're 2 healing it, go up to 3 healers. At 3 healers, it really shouldn't be an issue.

Well that's the wierd part, we have 3 healers who have proven themselves good at many hard hitting bosses, but still the tanks die down due to the damage. Any other tips?
*trying blood spec*

*edit* ok he's down. Here's what we did.
Dps was assigned at the stationary target with our dps it meant that when one of the worms died the other one was on borrow and then in stationary meaning much lower tank damage. We talked to a overhyper druid who spammed at the fight and the blood spec helped at hard dps.
Thanks for help though. (got new wrists *happy*)

Aerona
08-07-2009, 02:20 PM
Aerona, it's likely that you were having people die to each Massive Crash. If anyone dies to it, he enrages and hits for 50% additional damage. If no one dies to it then he is stunned for ~10s. If you have people die every time he does Massive Crash then there really isn't a way to beat this fight IMO. If you only have people die to MC once (or maybe twice) then tanks and healers can all blow their cooldowns to have the tank live.

Don't take this the wrong way because I'm not saying it with the bile that usually comes with this sentence:

Can you go back and read what I wrote? :)

I specifically said that no one got hit during the charge and no one died to massive crash. He did not gain the buff. Two tanks were insta-gibbed before he even did his first blast back and charge and no one died from it when it did happen. He then turned around and killed the two tanks again from a Ferocious Butt + Melee swing in the same second for over 50k damage.

Kazeyonoma
08-07-2009, 02:47 PM
possible enrage timer?

Tempestas
08-07-2009, 03:02 PM
None, if there is its stupidly long we 5 maned Icemaw(2 of which were healers) because we were laughing too hard on 10 man and he never enraged.

Organic
08-07-2009, 05:52 PM
Our guild just downed it last night and found it much easier to disarm Gormok using a rotation of disarms between our warrior tank, 2 MM hunters, and a rogue because it seems he cannot apply the stacking debuff while disarmed.

sucellus
08-07-2009, 05:57 PM
We just did this fight this evening and we had real trouble with the Acidmaw tank continually getting palaytic toxin. This wouldn't be a problem if anyone else in the raid had the burning bile debuff so they could remove it from that tank. What happened to us several times was that nobody would have burning bile at all, or just the other tank.

I've watched the vid several times and although he isn't on screen at all times, I don't see the acidmaw tank getting PT once.

Any hints to make this easier as in the end we opted to just burn down acidmaw quickly to reduce the chance of this happening. But we can't do the achieve that way.

Organic
08-07-2009, 05:59 PM
For us the easiest solution was to just have the tank who has burning bile run to the poisoned one, then back into position.

sucellus
08-07-2009, 06:18 PM
For us the easiest solution was to just have the tank who has burning bile run to the poisoned one, then back into position.

That was what we were trying to do as well, but with the poison damage patches on the ground it was rather tricky to maintain a kite path. and often when I was nipping over to free the other tank we'd both get hit by cone attacks, making the healers jobs a lot more difficult.

I'd still be interested to know how it's done in the tankspot video who don't seem to tank the two mobs anywhere near each other.

Arianne
08-07-2009, 06:39 PM
Don't take this the wrong way because I'm not saying it with the bile that usually comes with this sentence:

Can you go back and read what I wrote? :)

I specifically said that no one got hit during the charge and no one died to massive crash. He did not gain the buff. Two tanks were insta-gibbed before he even did his first blast back and charge and no one died from it when it did happen. He then turned around and killed the two tanks again from a Ferocious Butt + Melee swing in the same second for over 50k damage.

Facts do not compute. Bugged instance? Maybe he kept the buff from a previous wipe? The only time I've seen that much damage was when he enraged.

sucellus
As for PT on the tank, usually there is a lag time between when the first PT is cast by Acidmaw (OT) and the first Burning Bile is cast by Dreadmaw (SB), so your tank will likely be paralyzed for a few seconds and need additional healing until BB is cast.

Aerona
08-07-2009, 06:55 PM
Facts do not compute. Bugged instance? Maybe he kept the buff from a previous wipe? The only time I've seen that much damage was when he enraged.


We are very confused by it as well and if anyone here did the 25 man version *after* Thursday's maintenance then I would very much like to hear how your Icehowl fight went. :)

I doubt it was an enrage timer. We killed Gormok quickly after his snobolds were dead and the worms went down within two "burrow and switch" phases.

Icehowl came out and was doing that level of damage right off the bat.

The only things we can think of are:

1) They buffed the fight on Thursday and not many know yet because most raiding guilds got him on Tuesday or Wednesday.

2) Our instance was bugged.

sucellus
08-07-2009, 06:59 PM
sucellus
As for PT on the tank, usually there is a lag time between when the first PT is cast by Acidmaw (OT) and the first Burning Bile is cast by Dreadmaw (SB), so your tank will likely be paralyzed for a few seconds and need additional healing until BB is cast.

Yeah, I noticed that, I guess I'm just gonna have to kite much closer to the other tank so I can free her if necessary.

Reki
08-07-2009, 10:19 PM
On the worms, do the tanks stick to their target and alternate kiting/stationary, or is it best to have one tank kite through all of it and one do the stationary?

Saphiria
08-07-2009, 11:35 PM
When my guild did this on 25man the only problem we had was in P1 with Gormok. We started with 2 tanks that would taunt at 3 stacks. The tanks ended up dying fairly fast. So then they taunted at 2 stacks, still died. Then we went with 3 tanks taunting at 3 stacks, and they still died. Then we went to 3 tanks taunting at 2 stacks, 2 tanks died and the 3rd tanked didn't die till his 13th stack, so its pretty much a healing problem my guess. We eventually made it past P1 and it was all fun from there and we downed them all! It's a fun fight for sure.

Tempestas
08-07-2009, 11:53 PM
When my guild did this on 25man the only problem we had was in P1 with Gormok. We started with 2 tanks that would taunt at 3 stacks. The tanks ended up dying fairly fast. So then they taunted at 2 stacks, still died. Then we went with 3 tanks taunting at 3 stacks, and they still died. Then we went to 3 tanks taunting at 2 stacks, 2 tanks died and the 3rd tanked didn't die till his 13th stack, so its pretty much a healing problem my guess. We eventually made it past P1 and it was all fun from there and we downed them all! It's a fun fight for sure.

Yeah....tell your healers to step it up cause that's bad....

Viggo Vickers
08-08-2009, 12:06 AM
We just got this done tonight on 10man, thanks once again to the TankSpot video and a few PTR videos. Our biggest problem was solving the debuff issue on the 2nd phase, a lot of our raid was having difficultly understanding how it works, thankfully we had a few catch on pretty quick and call out for people to move when needed. Was just a pain when I would be the only one with the Fire debuff and a healer would need a cure from me, yet I'm dragging the mobile worm around to get to them, trying not to face it towards anyone.

After about 6 or so attempts, it just clicked and we got the achievement for the duo timely kill, then took down Icehowl.

Is it just me though or is Icehowl's damage really spikey?

Darksend
08-08-2009, 04:57 AM
possible enrage timer?

on ptr we hit enrage around 25% with 18 people in the 25 man including a third not needed tank.

not sure if it is an overall enrage or just an enrage from the time you engage the last guy.

hassle
08-08-2009, 04:30 PM
Hello having trouble with the healers going oom? well i had but not anymore - We found out that the first phase in the coliseum you can actually disarm him or dismantle and he will stop impaling the tanks taking a great load of your healers if you time this right you can end up having 60-70%more mana for your healers - I havnt seen this anywere else so i am sorry if i havnt noticed

Saphiria
08-08-2009, 08:09 PM
Does disarming him actually stop the impale? or just lowers his melee hits?

hassle
08-09-2009, 05:59 AM
Does disarming him actually stop the impale? or just lowers his melee hits?

Yes i stops him impaling for the time he is disarmed and lowers his meele damage

Lyco
08-09-2009, 12:40 PM
Lovely, we had 6 warriors ( 2 tanks, 4 DPS ). Disarm for the win.

conf
08-09-2009, 02:27 PM
nice vid - just downed him with the guild after about 4 wipes, fun encounter really. however, what addons are used in this video? besides from IceHUD? I can hardly find any updated addons, thanks in advance

Organic
08-09-2009, 02:30 PM
Yep, that's what our guild found out too, hope they don't change it because it's an awesome conservation strategy <--- in response to the disarm theory in P1

Belak
08-10-2009, 07:09 AM
My guild found an important little tidbit for the Icehowl fight.

When you get knocked to the walls and Icehowl charges someone, DO NOT hug the wall as you run away.

Why? Because there are pillars that stick out from the wall a short distance. If you simply strafe to the side, you won't see it, will get stuck on the pillar, and will eat the charge.

My guild found this out the hard way last night when we had 2 separate heartrending wipes with Icehowl at <50% because of it.

(We got him down right after, though.)

Karmakin
08-10-2009, 07:27 AM
Last night my casual-ish guild downed 10-man NB..here's what we did...

P1-All DPS focused on the Snobolds right off the bat, including the current non-tanking tank. Once all of them were down then we DPS'd down the boss. Fairly easy. Tanks switched initially after 2 stacks, then as soon as the current bleed wore off. Fairly easy, however ignoring the Snobolds increases the raid damage dramatically.

P2-In theory, this is insanely complicated. In practice? Not so much. Keep spread out, and if you get the poison during the first part, run to the kiting tank. And if you get the flame during the second part...run to the kiting tank. Run within 10 yards, wait a second and run out. Once Acidmaw dies, the damage done actually increases, although the fight becomes much easier tactically.

P3-Err...easy? Hunters watch to tranq shot just in case, but it shouldn't be necessary. The Frost Breath can be Blinked and probably CoS'd out of, however it doesn't do that much damage anyway. Keep people topped up, as the Crash jump does a fair amount of damage and can gib people.

It's a lot less complicated than I thought it would be. But it's a fight where if you don't do it right, the difficulty ramps up dramatically. It's an execution, not a gear check.

Shadowjj
08-10-2009, 11:18 AM
Icehowl came out and ran to our other tank, a DK, and killed him instantly. He looked at his combat log and saw two hits: Ferocious Butt and a melee swing in 1 second that killed him outright. He has more hp than I do and about equal stats otherwise.

Ferocious Butt hits for 27,000.
Melee swing hits for 15,000. (9000 overkill) (24,000 total)

27,000 + 24,000 = 51,000 damage in one second.

We boggled at our combat logs for a while and called it a night.

Corev/Aerona - our MT is DK as well and man we hit the exact same thing last night in 10-Man mode - Ferocious Butt/Melee = Dead Tank - then he ran to our Druid and did the same thing shortly after.

We cleared it 25-Man last week and just got around to 10-Man last night......so Ferocious Butt + instant melee wasn't mentioned by any of you that cleared this 10-Man. I'm hoping a bugged instance or something triggered a Hard Mode? Anyone have input on Ferocious Butt + melee in less than 1 second?

It hurt. Our DK MT is very well geared (25-Ulduar) and Icehowl was not enraged...and we cleared pretty quicly so I can't imagine some soft enrage occurred. So Aerona/Corev you aren't the only ones to see it :)

Any insight would be appreciated.

Edit: Everyone got out of the way from the Charge and he was stunned. Very sure of this.

Edit again: Ok did it again tonight and it was cake. Didn't have the Ferocious Butt issue so I'm assuming it was bugged.

DKUgolina
08-10-2009, 12:36 PM
It doesn't seem to be mentioned here, so I thought I'd add it. We were increasing out frequency of swaps in order to survive on Gormok (didn't know about dismantle/disarm yet). We are well geared, but were getting eaten by the debuff as he was quickly up to +60% damage. We didn't realize one very key aspect: The debuff is increased every time the threat target changes.

Therefore, you have to balance an increasing debuff damage by carrying stacks vs. a flat damage increase. You also have to have disciplined dps not pulling aggro, obviously.

Having learned this, we are eager to get back in and try again, as we were causing mana issues by swapping at 2 stacks by the end of the night and not getting into the 'groove' on the worms. (We are hoping to try all dps on the grounded worm and minimal kiting so we can get debuffs off easier.)

P.S. Anyone know the specifics of how different hard mode is? Can't find a thread that points that out.

bloodfox
08-10-2009, 05:17 PM
I was just wondering if that pally was Lore. What exactly are the addons she/he is running. I know one is Ice HuD but all the others i'm not familar with and the look like they could work for my healadin and Hunter.

Warwench
08-10-2009, 05:24 PM
There is a whole thread on Lore's UI bloodfox, search for it.

Mookey
08-11-2009, 12:34 AM
We are well geared, but were getting eaten by the debuff as he was quickly up to +60% damage. We didn't realize one very key aspect: The debuff is increased every time the threat target changes.

Therefore, you have to balance an increasing debuff damage by carrying stacks vs. a flat damage increase. You also have to have disciplined dps not pulling aggro, obviously.

Having learned this, we are eager to get back in and try again, as we were causing mana issues by swapping at 2 stacks by the end of the night and not getting into the 'groove' on the worms.

All this writen and you haven't understand basic principle of the fight? Debuff last 30 sec - that's 3 stacks, 4 at most, when one tank have it - switch, 2nd tank don't have debufs and tanks it while healers still heal first tank too since he will bleed a lot... First tank waits 30 sec for his debuffs to wear OFF then takes over, rinse and repeat...

If you are switching tanks after 2 stacks - no wonder how you didn't get to p2

influxreptile
08-11-2009, 02:11 AM
Hey, finally a fight where IMP DISARM might be worth taking for hardmode :P

Gotta say that this is surely tuned for people that come out of naxx25 as even pugs and altruns oneshot it on our server.

Fayre
08-11-2009, 07:47 AM
All this writen and you haven't understand basic principle of the fight? Debuff last 30 sec - that's 3 stacks, 4 at most, when one tank have it - switch, 2nd tank don't have debufs and tanks it while healers still heal first tank too since he will bleed a lot... First tank waits 30 sec for his debuffs to wear OFF then takes over, rinse and repeat...

If you are switching tanks after 2 stacks - no wonder how you didn't get to p2

He's referring to the stacking buff on Gormok.

Jyl
08-11-2009, 09:39 AM
we had trouble two nights ago while trying this due to ppl who got the paralytic toxin becoming immobile too quickly to get to the dreadscale tank and dying. does it seem to make sense to anyone else to have one other dps (melee, for example; someone with a decent amt of hp) on dreadscale in the beginning to pick up the burning bile debuff and having that person run to the one who gets paralytic poison? if that would work, it'd seem to make more sense than having the person who's about to be paralyzed try to run. any thoughts?
1. You can have the tank moving only when it's necessary (only when a poison cloud spawns) and not having him being on the move all the time, that will make it easier for people to get to him (maybe you already do it like this, still just saying).

2. We are a 10man guild and we didn't have much trouble with it, if it's worse on 25man or if you just keep having trouble with this, you can try the following (haven't tested it though). Have a 3rd tank to taunt Dreadscale (when Dread is your mobile worm) for a moment and get injected with burning bile. Then have your regular Dread tank to taunt back and this injected 3rd tank can go stand kind of close to the spreaded ranged, so they can be neutralizing their paralytic toxin debuff when needed. Burning bile doesn't go away when in contact with the toxin, so your burning bile tank should be able to stand there and do his job for a rerasonable amount of time (about 25secs if i can trust our 10man logs), then rinse and repeat. If this is a warrior tank, he can be using intercept/charge to get to dread fast and intervene on some ranged to get back fast. Does it worth the trouble ? Only in 25man and only if you have trouble with intoxicated people reaching Dread's tank in time. After all, only 1 way to see if it makes things easier, trying it. Let us know if it's any good if you try.

Bishop
08-11-2009, 10:17 AM
Just to be clear, at what point does the Burning Bile become "contagious" and spread to other raid members? If the initial Dreadscale tank has the Burning Bile, couldn't a melee catch the debuff from the tank and run it to the ranged players who need it? Or is it only spreadable when Dreadscale is rooted?

Diffy
08-11-2009, 11:59 AM
In my opinion being a warrior tanking the worm is a huge advantage. When I tanked him I kited him in a circle around all the ranged, who stood close to the melee working on the stationary tank. Then I would watch my bars, if someone got the poison, I would intervene to that person and immediately charge back to tanking the boss.

The speed at which I could dispel using this technique made phase 2 a lot easier.

Jyl
08-11-2009, 12:36 PM
Just to be clear, at what point does the Burning Bile become "contagious" and spread to other raid members?
It doesn't spread by contact, it just ticks and damages nearby players, neutralizing their toxin as a side effect.
When Dreadscale is the moving worm, to get it you have to get aggro by Dreadscale for enough time (some secs) to have it applied to you (which means that only the tank will have it, unless someone taunts for a few secs). When Dreadscale is the stationary worm, then it will spit it (the burning bile) to random raid members too, so you'll have more people with burning bile.



In my opinion being a warrior tanking the worm is a huge advantage. When I tanked him I kited him in a circle around all the ranged, who stood close to the melee working on the stationary tank. Then I would watch my bars, if someone got the poison, I would intervene to that person and immediately charge back to tanking the boss.
Yeah that's nice, as long as one is careful and uses intervene like about after his worm has breathed. Because if you intervene and it decides to breath at that time, it would be a lot of greenish people hehe.

Arianne
08-11-2009, 12:48 PM
Does 25 man Gormok also have 4 snobolds or are there more?

Muffin Man
08-11-2009, 12:49 PM
What's the point of kiting the mobile worm? I tried that, and maybe I didn't kite properly but I didn't find a difference from facing him towards a wall and just tanking him.

Also, does it matter for the stationary worm if no one is in melee? (We burned Acidmaw, so many times Dreadscale was stationary with no one on him but me so I just danced in and out to limit damage).

Arianne
08-11-2009, 01:47 PM
The stationary worm has a whirlwind attack that knocks melee back 20ish yards. The mobile worm drops clouds like Grobbulus. You have to decide which target you want your melee to attack. Personally we have our melee attack the mobile worm and kite him so that they're not in gas clouds.

Chamenas
08-11-2009, 03:51 PM
Do the tanks not switch Jormungar alternately to remove the debuffs?

Jyl
08-11-2009, 05:05 PM
Do the tanks not switch Jormungar alternately to remove the debuffs?
Not really, speaking about the encounter in its current state. You can have people with toxin run to dread's tank (when dread is mobile) to have their toxin removed and non tanks with burning bile run to Acidmaw's tank to remove the tank's toxin (when it's Acidmaw the mobile worm). Then you can have melee on Acidmaw or Dread or even split them (if melee heavy) so as not to risk having burning bile on too many at the same time. You can try killing them at about the same time or just burn Acidmaw and then finish off Dreadscale... Pretty much everything works atm and i guess everyone is just optimizing tactics for own needs, depending on raid setup, e.t.c.

Feels like having half the fight tbh, i guess we'll have to wait for the heroic mode that will probably have us use a more tactical execution to beat this. At its current state and especially the 25man version is rather easy (tried it tonight) if the raid is decently geared, thus mistakes are forgivable and no special execution is needed. Just standard game.

Darksend
08-11-2009, 06:30 PM
The debuff is increased every time the threat target changes. .

FALSE

FALSE

FALSE

as I said in the other thread

I do not know who started this rumor but i can say with 100% certainty that rising anger HAS NOTHING TO DO with tank transitions

Tested it tonight. Every time a kobold jumps on someone's back he gets a stack. meaning he is capped at 4 stacks unless someone with a kobold dies. If that happens the kobold picks a new target new targert=new stack.

Coro
08-11-2009, 08:05 PM
Anyone know if the yeti is bugged or if we did something wrong?

After we all got pushed to the wall, the mob "looked at me", I immediatly sprinted to the far right (careful not to hit the walls, but still on the outer ring near the walls, about in the middle of the brown ring) and two other people were running towards the guy and it started to charge at me, b lined 90 degrees to hit them, then came and hit me with a normal hit.

agranyoch
08-11-2009, 11:49 PM
Aerona, it's likely that you were having people die to each Massive Crash. If anyone dies to it, he enrages and hits for 50% additional damage. If no one dies to it then he is stunned for ~10s. If you have people die every time he does Massive Crash then there really isn't a way to beat this fight IMO. If you only have people die to MC once (or maybe twice) then tanks and healers can all blow their cooldowns to have the tank live.
Hunters and rogues can also quickly Tranquilize the Yeti to get rid of the frenzy effect.

(Sorry if this had been mentioned here before...)


Evadd, Your raid members that got PT were not reacting fast enough. You have about 15s to move to the tank before PT will immobilize you. As stated before, one of the debuffs is always on the tank that is on the worm that's "on top". The other debuff is randomly targeted in the raid. Members of the raid need to be aware that they'll have to move to the tank of the worm that's "on top" and not get too far away from him.
Yup, just position yourself smartly and not like other side of the room where the tank with other debuff is going to be and you'll make it in time every time. As a hunter, Disencage is a lovely thing for this. <3

Also, Deadly Boss Mods gives a huuuuuuge warning about you getting Paralytic Toxin OR Burning Bile, so it shouldn't be too hard to notice them in time.

Corev
08-12-2009, 12:51 PM
@ darksend

I believe what you stated is false also, one encounter we had his stack up to 8 because we had 3 melee somehow get caught/die in fire (they fell asleep apparently)

this happened just after the last snobold died, slow dps, boss wound up with 8 stacks of buff making his dmg somewhat difficult to heal through.

So it appears to be a timed interval at which he gains a new stack.

edit-no one else died during the encounter with gormok except the 3 melee (right after the last snobold was killed) so...no snobold's changing who they were attacking yet we continued to see stacks pile up. (for clarity)

Shadevarr
08-12-2009, 01:06 PM
There is a 15 minute enrage timer on the whole event from what I've observed.

Here is what worked for us in 25man

Gormok the impaler:
setup a disarm rotation
tanks switch at 3 stacks IF the OT is cleared of debuff
all dps burns down snobolds.

acidmaw & dreadscale:
1 tank on stationary, 1 tank on moving
All dps burns down acidmaw 1st (starts stationary, always in the same place) with assistance of heroism/bloodlust
1 person should be appointed bile ferry for while acidmaw is up, we have a prot pally do it. The pally stands in front of dreadscale with the other tank, gets the bile and then goes and de-greens the raid.
always point the worms away from the raid!

icehowl
tank him in the center, raid spreads way out
he will look at who he charges, avoid charge, burn boss,drag to middle..repeat



all in all, fun but easy encounter

Sharlin
08-13-2009, 01:53 AM
Nice video though not sure if its been said before (to lazy to read all pages) But even in 10 man Icehowl will use his head butt to stun the tank for abit and this can (if your healers aren't ready for it) be fatal.

For Gormok we usualy switch when we can at but we usualy never reach more then 2 or 3 debuffs. And while I am not sure how safe it is. But while the OT is waiting for his dot to run out. He can most of the time at least Taunt Gormok while its about 5 secounds left for the debuff to run out as it most of the time is enought time for the debuff to fall off before Gormok uses impale again. (Again now sure how safe it is but thats how we done it twice now and seems to work)

blindasabat
08-13-2009, 02:17 AM
just a note to say that mages can blink out of the icehowl's frost trap like in UK

Mookey
08-13-2009, 02:38 AM
7 total of warriors / rogues and you really don't have to worry about impale :D

Aerona
08-13-2009, 10:26 AM
Downed this last night on 25 man and the Ferocious Butt was still being used but it was hitting for about 10k damage instead of 28k+. His melee swings were also a lot lower than they were last week. It must have been a bug.

FrankiTankie
08-13-2009, 04:24 PM
Hi all first time poster long time reader.

As a few have picked up a little bit was left out of the explaination of the The Two Jormungar phase of this encounter.

- On the first round of the Jormungars being up only the tank on Deadscale will have the fire debuff therefore I don't recommend the kiting circle shown in this vid because because it is up to the tank on Acidmaw to move to the Deadscale tank to remove their paralysing debuff, due to things like knock back you run the risk of the Acidmaw tank getting paralysed. The way we handle this is have the Dreadscale tank turn and move him as slow as possible to the door they come from at the start, you won't run out of room before they go under if you move slow enough (yes you will have enough room to avoid the clouds on the floor). This positioning just gives you a quick hop skip and a jump as the Acidmaw tank.

After the worms go under ground and switch between one standing still and the other mobile then the fire debuff no longer goes to the Dreadscale tank only but to random raid members. This changes two things, firstly the Acidmaw tank can now just call for someone to run to him to remove his paralysing debuff and secondly the mobile worm can now be tanked around the wall like shown in the tankspot video.

I am not sure if I heard this right in the video, but no the worms do not just switch places when the go underground the only thing they switch each time is one being mobile and one being stationary.

We DPS the Acidmaw down first so we have found it cleaner to have the Dreadscale tank call if he has the fire debuff each time it goes under ground so we can have the free tank move in and pick it up, just saves the tank running through the raid burning people up with his fire debuff.

FrankiTankie
08-13-2009, 04:40 PM
Oh I am just wondering why in the video you are tanking Icehowl in the middle of the room when he has a knock back? I would rather just sit my back to a wall and hold him there. If it's to minimise the amount of people caught in the effect of his breath then I guess make sure your raid is spread out behind him. Not meaning to pick just that I find the less movement the better.

I have tried both in the middle and on the wall and found it cleaner for everyone in the raid if I am on the wall but I could be missing something.

Higarra
08-15-2009, 11:52 AM
Our guild downed this boss last night and came up with some strategies that are a bit different than those discussed here. I am working on uploading a video to youtube currently and should be up later this afternoon (["http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ECYbGuTEb4"]).

Phase 1: Our tanks switched at about 3 stacks and had all DPS focus on the snobolds as they came out. The reason we did this is to burn through dealing with them as fast as possible. There is only a limited number of them to kill so after that you can focus on the boss without fire or interrupts. Didn't see it mentioned above, but the Staggering Stomp will lock casters spells out for a short time if they are caught casting during this ability.

Phase 2: This is probably the most different part. We use only 1 tank from here on out. We had a single tank take both the Jormungars. The single tank mostly was stationary and moved around as necessary for the clouds. There was a knock back, but this did not cause any problems. Our OT was on standby to pick up in the case the MT was crippled by the paralytic poison and unable to remove it. The only part to really be careful of in this method is the melee DPS as they need to avoid the poison clouds as much as possible. The rest of the damage that occurs from this method was extremely easy to heal through. This also allowed for casters/ranged to move a short distance in to clear their poison debuff. We were using both nature and fire resists for this fight.

Phase 3: There is an enrage timer at 15minutes. With a frost resist aura (or equivalent) up, the icy breath is extremely easy to heal through. This is the easiest part, nothing worth noting that wasn't mentioned above.

Just a note, the vid is from our first night there, so there are many points that we are going to be adjusting for next week. However the general strategy is in place.

KnThrak
08-16-2009, 03:42 AM
The spitting mechanic bears mention again IMO, as a lot seem to get it confused.

Ignore for a moment which worm does which debuff. Dreadscale does Burning Bile, Acidmaw does Paralytic Poison, but the mechanics are independant of the worm.


Static worm
Spits randomly into the raid, applying the debuff to what I could see 6-10 people in the 25man.

Mobile worm
Debuff only on the tank on it.


In other words, the important part is noticing the switches, not which worm is which debuff. You can handle the poison/fire either setup, you just need to know which of the two is mobile right now (tank-only debuff) and which is static (raid-random debuff).

Cheezenips
08-16-2009, 04:04 PM
Video Really Helped. I am a Healer But it made me get an idea of the Fight. Thank you Tank Spot XD

LazarusAdam
08-16-2009, 11:10 PM
Just a side note you say in your guide that switching after 5 stacks of the bleed? doesn't that make for extra unnecessary healing on the tank when he isn't tanking (Some groups might not run with anything to automatically clear the debuff), you can taunt after every 2 stacks and when the bleed drops off taunt and you can make the whole phase go through with only ever having a 2 stack.

I realize some guild might be able to handle the healing of a 5 stack i just thought i would post that a 2 stack is much more healable for ppl not as gear'd.

Ok, as good as that sounds to change targets quickly, he gets a damage buff everytime he is taunted. So constantly taunting him will basically give him an undispellable, i think, fifteen percent stackable damage increase every time the target changes. Going to collect more data on this come Tuesday

Mookey
08-16-2009, 11:37 PM
Ok, as good as that sounds to change targets quickly, he gets a damage buff everytime he is taunted. So constantly taunting him will basically give him an undispellable, i think, fifteen percent stackable damage increase every time the target changes. Going to collect more data on this come Tuesday

Rising Anger - Spell - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=66636)

Rising Anger is related to snobolds... Not to taunting. He get's 6x buffs if everything is done right. If snobolds are not killed fast enough and they rampage trough raid this buff will increase each time snobold's target dies.

LazarusAdam
08-18-2009, 02:28 AM
Thanks Mookey. I will work on this one.

Miusama
09-01-2009, 06:09 AM
There is a 15 minute enrage timer on the whole event from what I've observed.

Here is what worked for us in 25man

Gormok the impaler:
setup a disarm rotation
tanks switch at 3 stacks IF the OT is cleared of debuff
all dps burns down snobolds.

acidmaw & dreadscale:
1 tank on stationary, 1 tank on moving
All dps burns down acidmaw 1st (starts stationary, always in the same place) with assistance of heroism/bloodlust
1 person should be appointed bile ferry for while acidmaw is up, we have a prot pally do it. The pally stands in front of dreadscale with the other tank, gets the bile and then goes and de-greens the raid.
always point the worms away from the raid!

icehowl
tank him in the center, raid spreads way out
he will look at who he charges, avoid charge, burn boss,drag to middle..repeat



all in all, fun but easy encounter


Yeah there is a 15 min enrage timer, and very useful for newer people to the encounter to be aware of. Making sure DPS and healers are aware of their surroundings during the first 2 encounters is important not to fall close to this.

CatabriOnEarthen
09-01-2009, 02:11 PM
We did this Saturday night. We went in without a hunter and without a rogue. And without a warrior. No disarms.

Once we got the healing down on Gormok, it was pretty easy. The DK tank and I have worked together on tank switching a lot, and I say "taunt" into vent, and he uses Raid Warnings. He can hear us, but has no mic. This would cripple some people, I guess, but we've got it down pretty good.

Once we figured out the kiting speed, and getting people de-debuffed, the Jormungr's were pretty easy.

Icehowl was just a matter of no one getting hit by the stun, and burning the hell out of him while he was stunned. By then, we had a hunter, and during the kill, he enraged once, and got tranq shotted.

Yes, I had a helluva repair bill......but, I had a helluva lot of fun too.

Went on to defeat Jaraxxus and get our asses kicked by the PvP fight. Oh well, there's always next week. Um, this week.

Fonzey
09-02-2009, 03:50 PM
I'm currently raidleading a 10man strict guild, we're halfway through the Algalon questline in Ulduar just to give an example of our gear / ability levels. After one-shotting Anub'arak in normal mode - we proceeded to get stomped all over in heroic mode!

On our very first attempt, we lost the MT at about 10% on Gormok, and the worms came out at that point. We battlerezzed the MT and finished off Gormok, unfortunately half of us had switched off at tank death and assumed a wipe. A proper wipe followed soon after.

Confident, we barrelled back in there - but never saw the worms again...

Our tanks who are geared enough to manage Ulduar10 hardmodes were just getting stomped all over by the second rotation.

We've got a holy paladin who can keep up with the damage if the taunt rotation is correct, a druid and priest assisting and taking care of raid healing - but if just one of them gets an unlucky streak on the fires, or a snobold - it's game over and we lose a tank.

We've been seriously humbled by tonight - and I'm hoping we missed a very important fight mechanic which we should be using to our advantage. We made zero progress in the 14 wipes we endured. Hoping to progress with it on Friday - but if anyone can shed any light over this encounter - please do!

Erlassa
09-07-2009, 12:25 AM
While tanking Acidmaw I had a problem where the toxin debuff would hit me right at the start of the 1st switch and the fire debuff wouldn't be around for about 10+ seconds. So I didn't have to worry about running to the other tank, I equipped a pvp trinket for removing movement impairing effects. This removed the toxin completely and allowed us to finish the encounter without a tank being paralyzed.

Hallius
10-11-2009, 10:34 AM
Im curious about wich addons ur using...
thats basicly all..

But i must say that ur doing a great job on tankspot.com. Its my favourite tactics page and Ive never had any problems with understanding the tactics...

Good job
Hallius............

Zakihashi20
10-19-2009, 09:47 AM
Its a good video. Also if you wanna a fast macro for the snobolds the macro is,
/target sno
That should make it a little faster to switch from the boss to the snobolds.

Conscious_id
12-06-2009, 01:20 PM
whats the best tool to use to monitor impale stack on you ant the other tank?
thanks

Ha, i was thinking the same thing at first as well.

Separately, I tanked this the other day (on 10 man) and am bit on the lower gear level relative to a lot of people pushing through this - just a few pieces of Uld gear and rest naxx25. For the first boss, we got through him fine, but the tanks had to switch on more like 3 or even 2 stacks of the impale debuff. This could be a healer issue as well, but definitely had some close calls when the stack got to the long end of 3. Just a potential warning, but either way, it can work with earlier (maybe if lesser geared) or later switches.

Espillion
12-06-2009, 03:59 PM
Best to have your other tank on focus. With the debuffs on the tank focus visible, you can time it with your DBM timers to taunt before the next stack of impales.

TeddyTauren
12-07-2009, 11:30 AM
the rooted worm does not have a frontal AoE, so he can be facing the raid

Chamenas
12-07-2009, 12:47 PM
the rooted worm does not have a frontal AoE, so he can be facing the raid

True, but it's generally good practice to just not have people in front of the wyrm. Otherwise the silly DPS might get confused.

Muffin Man
12-07-2009, 06:41 PM
He does parry hastes which will really suck if he's enraged.

It is good practice to spread out as much as you can if the rooted worm is the fire spitting one, since we actually lost 4 players in about 2 seconds when he debuffed the melee who were all clumped up on each other and the damage just blew everyone up.

AKureyi
03-12-2010, 09:59 PM
Im new to tanking raids in general, and tonight in a ToC 10, Both me and the other tank were both new to tanking it. We both knew the general set up etc, but on Dreadscale and AcidMaw, we each got hit with a debuff. What happens if both tanks get hit? Does Acidmaw's tank go to Dreadscale or Vice Versa?

Notavi
03-31-2010, 02:55 AM
Static worm
Spits randomly into the raid, applying the debuff to what I could see 6-10 people in the 25man.

Mobile worm
Debuff only on the tank on it.

Is the raid-random spit completely random, or are certain targets exempt (ie, primary threat targets)?

I.E. Can the tank reliably avoid the debuff from the stationary worm provided every other raid member remains at least 10 feet away from him?

Kazeyonoma
03-31-2010, 10:12 AM
no, it's totally random, the tank regularly gets spit on sometimes to our benefit (i've been spit on with the flame right after i got spit on with the poison meaning instant cleanse ;P)

Notavi
04-01-2010, 03:46 AM
Ok, thanks. I'm trying to figure out what I should do if I'm tanking Acidmaw (Stationary) and I get the toxin on me.

Mainly because according to the vid you still need to keep him pointed away from the raid, and running to the Dreadscale tank turn him towards people. Though I did hear someone mention he doesn't have a frontal AoE (can I confirm this?). Should I just run to the other tank and not worry so much about where he is pointed (repositioning him as soon as I make it back?)

Kazeyonoma
04-01-2010, 09:43 AM
if he's stationary he doesn't spit, only the mobile one does, and in either case, the mobile tank, can run to you to clear the debuff AFTER he does his channeled frontal cone since this'll give him 30 seconds or so before it'll be cast again.

zitno
05-23-2010, 04:41 PM
What platename addon do you have on in the video?