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Dizzy99
07-30-2009, 10:52 PM
Hey guys, I've been tanking for quiet a while now, since BC actually.

Recently I've begun to notice I have quiet a bit of trouble when tanking multiple mobs in trash pulls in my Ulduar 25 man runs. For example, Razorscale when 2 machines pop up and im tanking around 4 adds I start to lose my aggro on them to the DPS when they jump in like 2 seconds after i thunderclap. I usually thunderclap and cleave right away to get as much initial threat as I can then throw in a shockwave, but as a warrior im still having stuff pulled off me.

I was wondering what the problem may be, I am aware that warriors were not necessarily made for AoE tanking multiple adds, but is it supposed to be this challenging mainting all 4-5 adds and making them stay on me?

armory link

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Runetotem&n=Dizzy)


thanks guys.

Doormat
07-31-2009, 01:30 AM
A few things:

1. Use Shockwave

2. Use Shockwave

3. I'd shuffle some talent points around.

a. If you already went to impale, go all the way to Deep Wounds. Drop 3 points from cruelty and put it into deep wounds.

b. Max incite and improved thunderclap. You can drop 3 points from shield spec and drop puncture altogether. The block rating from shield spec isn't useful in ulduar and the threat you get from puncture will be more than made up for from improved thunderclap and max incite. Plus improved thunderclap = less damage taken.

All of those talent buffs will greatly improve your thunderclap damage. Use cleave and tab around and throw a good shield slam on any mob you seem to be losing.

Qwolzor
07-31-2009, 02:57 AM
To be quite honest with you: Your build is horrible. Extremely horrible.

You invested as much or even more talents to threat than one would in the standard deep-wounds build and managed to invest ~50% of those in inferior choices threat wise and even missed a good threat & mitigation talent.

From a threat only pov:
Essentials you are missing:
- 3/3 Incite (read tooltip)
- 3/3 imp. Thunderclap (read tooltip)

Bad Talent Choices:
- 2/2 Rend
- 3/3 Puncture

Mediocre Talent Choices:
- 5/5 Cruelty

Good Talents you are missing out:
- 3/3 Deep wounds

This is the cookie-cutter Deep-Wounds build with 2 talent points unused.
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#LAM00fZhZMItrx0zidIzsGo)

This is the highest threat general use specc you can have.

You technicaly could drop the 3 points in deep wounds and put them with the 2 free points to cruelty but this is a small dps and tps loss for single-target tanking encounters and a hughe loss for aoe-tanking.

Thaak
07-31-2009, 03:01 AM
1) Your DPS should be focus firing. Priority on razorscale is Sentinels, watchers, guardians. They should not be just AoEing them down as packs.

2)Previous poster was right. If you want AoE threat, you NEED Improved Thunderclap and Incite. Move 3 points out of Puncture into Incite, and 3 points from Shield spec into Improved TC.

3)Glyph Cleave. Spam Cleave. Win

4)Move points from Improved rend into Improved Charge. Extra rage on a charge is nice. Charge a lot. Really nice for pulling as it gives you more rage starting out.

5)Thunderclap and Shockwave EVERYTIME they are off CD.

Dizzy99
07-31-2009, 02:07 PM
Thank you for all the responses

@Qwolzor

With the talent build you gave me there, will I be losing a lot of single target TPS such as when I'm tanking bosses, or is that just an overall better spec?

and with that build, where do you suggest putting the extra 2 points? not into cruelty correct?

thedrawrf
07-31-2009, 05:05 PM
^All excellent and valid points.

one thing, however, has yet to be said: Tell the dps to wait. Say it in the way that you'd talk to a dog, and they'll get the point. Or think you're a facetious jerk. :D

Dizzy99
07-31-2009, 06:21 PM
DPS needs to wait NAO!!!!!!!!!!!1111!1!1!1!1!!!!!!1111111!!11!11!1!1 one

Thaak
08-01-2009, 01:36 AM
I play a game with my dps. If they pull, i let them tank, because obviously they wanted to. If it turns out they can't tank, then they die. After they die, i pick it back up. They learn pretty fast that way. Make sure when they pull to call out over vent, "If you want it, you can have it."

thedrawrf
08-01-2009, 08:52 AM
I play a game with my dps. If they pull, i let them tank, because obviously they wanted to. If it turns out they can't tank, then they die. After they die, i pick it back up. They learn pretty fast that way. Make sure when they pull to call out over vent, "If you want it, you can have it."

^

This may make me sound horrible, but I smile every time I see one of my most overzealous dpsing guild members hit the floor.

Qwolzor
08-02-2009, 12:24 AM
Thank you for all the responses

@Qwolzor

With the talent build you gave me there, will I be losing a lot of single target TPS such as when I'm tanking bosses, or is that just an overall better spec?

and with that build, where do you suggest putting the extra 2 points? not into cruelty correct?

Your single-target threat should improve by respeccing to the build I linked.
The 2 points can go everywhere you want.

Cruelty - a tiny bit more aggro
Improved Disciplines - coupled with Shield-Wall Glyph this is amazing
Imp. Spell-Reflect - 4% magic avoid & a gimmicky but quite useful addition to your arsenal of abilities (Malygos / Mimiron / Trash before Vezax)
4/5 instead of 2/5 Shield Specialization - with 3.2 more rage (nice on trash) and a bit of mitigation

Just to give you a few options.

I personally love Improved Disciplines coupled with the Glyph. So handy to have on every trashpull in Ulduar and a god-sent for cooldown-rotations (especialy in 10 mans with badly stacked raids)

Akeber
08-02-2009, 07:40 AM
I play a game with my dps. If they pull, i let them tank, because obviously they wanted to. If it turns out they can't tank, then they die. After they die, i pick it back up. They learn pretty fast that way. Make sure when they pull to call out over vent, "If you want it, you can have it."

I generally have the same feelings. On AOE pulls, DPS that start as soon as you pull, deserve to tank what they pull.

However, I play a mage as my alt and I run a fair number of pugs with him. I have seen MANY tanks that seem to completely fail at threat generation. I'm talking tanks with a mix of naxx10/25/ulduar10 gear not being able to manage more than 2.5K tps on single target boss encounters, even with proper specs and gear. If I see the same performance on multiple fights, I ask questions like "what is your usual TPS generation?", and it's like I just asked what the average daytime temperature on Mars is.

I'm talking about tanks that have no idea that they need expertice/hit, gem for parry, have specs that look like they put their cursor over the the prot tree, closed their eyes and started clicking, etc etc. Many of them are sent here to educate themselves.

So, before you tell your dps to "l2omen", and advise other tanks to do the same, make sure the problem isn't a case of the tank needing to "l2threat".