View Full Version : Threat and DPS for a prot warrior

07-30-2009, 11:06 AM
i have been a prot warrior for quite a long time. i have done my research to try to find the best talents, gems, gear etc. im a well geared warrior tank that raids all the time. i still have threat issues, and my DPS as far as i see is still generally low. ill post my armory. The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Zul%27jin&n=Hatetank) anyone have suggestions?

07-30-2009, 11:07 AM
EZ - u have 9 expertise, pick that up to 26

07-30-2009, 11:10 AM
i hear mixed feelings about exp. and hit. i had much lower hit and have improved that to over 200...how is EXP gonna make that difference if u dont mind me asking?

07-30-2009, 11:18 AM
Well for one you can lose a chunk of hit and still be capped, at least in the gear I see on armory right now. Also the reason expertise is better is it helps remove dodge and parry. Unless something has changed it is more valuable than hit until soft cap (26 expertise skill) and just as effective as hit after the soft cap.

07-30-2009, 11:21 AM
and this will improve my threat AND DPS?

07-30-2009, 11:22 AM
and what is hit cap for a prot warrior? ive never known

07-30-2009, 11:30 AM
and what is hit cap for a prot warrior? ive never known

263(8%) for hit cap.

Also, lose the parry gems and change those to expertise as was already suggested. That will help you out alot. Expertise will negate the mobs ability to dodge and parry your attacks, thus should raise your threat and more than likely your DPS some.

07-30-2009, 11:33 AM
very cool. i changed TO parry gems because parry has been my lowest in the avoidance slot. but i guess maybe its time to do some more EXP in my build...thanks guys. ill keep looking here for any more input

07-30-2009, 12:19 PM
1) Hit cap is 263, anything over that is pointless (you are over 280)
2) Parry is currently a TERRIBLE stat (but is being changed in the future) do not gem for it. switch out that parry trinket for essence of gossamer until you get the royal seal of king lane or heart of iron
3) Expertise should be 26 for softcap removing dodges and if possible work towards hard cap of 57 removing parries. The more you have the better your threat but don't gimp stamina for it
4) Consider changing to a 15/3/53 spec (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#LAM00fZhZMItrx0didIzsGo:TrdmMz) as you want full Deep Wounds, Toughness and Gag Order. If you are going to be an OT you could dump Imp Disc and go back to the old 15/5/51 (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#LAM00fZhbZMItrx0zidIzsGo:dbcmzM) for better threat output
5) Put some minor glyphs on (charge & bloodrage), you are wasting 2 spots lol.

07-30-2009, 01:14 PM
a very good post for explaining expertise vs. hit can be found on Vene's blog

EXPERTISE IS ALWAYS BETTER THEN HIT. (http://www.tankingtips.com/2009/01/07/expertise-is-always-better-than-hit/)
(its also a super easy read, no need to be a math-nut or theorycrafter)

Essentially the only skills that this is untrue for is Taunt, Demo Shout, and Thunderclap,(iirc) which are considered spells and operate off the spell combat table (therefore no parry or dodge possibility and much higher required hit) however, these spells are rarely resisted (~3%) when carrying the 8% melee hitcap.

Never socket for parry; as was mentioned above. The general rule of thumb I use when I want the socket bonus is:

Blue Socket = Stam
Red Socket = Expertise / stam
Yellow Socket = def / stam (I currently use stam dragon eyes gogo JC till 3.2)

often times if I require the use of a yellow gem to get a socket bonus I don't go for the socket bonus. The only socket bonus' I strive for are stam, expertise, and dodge.

07-31-2009, 08:45 AM
i hear mixed feelings about exp. and hit. i had much lower hit and have improved that to over 200...how is EXP gonna make that difference if u dont mind me asking?

By whom? We need to straighten those folks out! Maybe for some specs of DKs where a lot of their damage is magic based and not subject to parry, but for warriors until you reach the hard cap for expertise (which is difficult but possible in current gear) expertise is going to be better.

Below the soft cap (26 expertise) Expertise is TWICE as good as hit in threat and damage (plus provides some mitigation) and after that it's as good as hit, but still provides some mitigation from Parry Hastened Boss swings.

08-03-2009, 03:01 AM
well, at this point ive gotten my exp to 26, although i havent raided wih it. i have done a few heroics, and haventreally noticed a huge difference in DPSor threat. the fights are too shorton trash, and bosses werent aproblem, but we didnt have 4k+ DPSers to deal with. my DPS was averaging about 1500 ish maybea bit more. i feel good about my rotation, but is there something ineed to do to improve that too? i usually heroic throw and/or charge in and then SS, Rev, Dev, CB (when its up)and mix in SW an TC for the aoe threat. some people have told me to switch stances and throw in a WW or a Retaliation. i have done this, but it doesnt seem to be real effective.

08-03-2009, 04:28 AM
If holding aggro on a boss in a raid is an issue for you, instead of glyph of sunder you can try glyph of devastate it will add about an extra 900-1000 threat to your devastate ability since it double stacks sunder. Also you want to get Glyph of Blocking, each time you use your shield slam you get 10% more BV, which in turn makes your next SS do more damage, and generate more threat. I currently also use glyph of vigilance, I currently use the 15/5/51 spec because there hasn't been a time where ive needed my oshit button more than once a fight, and twice on mimiron.

The only thing i can say to your rotation is heroic strike more. When i open combat, i Charge/Heroic Throw, HS,SS,HS,Dev,HS,Rev,HS,Dev,HS,Dev,HS,rev,HS,TC,HS, etc... you get the idea. I will Heroic Strike till im blue in the face I've got it on my skillbar, and i have it on every skill in a macro. Every button i push queues up Heroic Strike. I don't have rage issues, and the only person I have threat issues with is one warlock in our guild, but he's easily curbed with pain suppression, and hand of salvation.
The only time I'm not HS'ing is when we are doing trash in which place HS is replaced by Cleave.

08-03-2009, 08:36 AM
Every button i push queues up Heroic Strike. I don't have rage issues

Hmm... I tend to disagree. Although I am a huge proponent of Heroic Strike I never macro it to other keys because:

1) I like to be as precise as possible
2) I have no problem spamming it when in an infinite rage situation
3) There are MANY situations where you are NOT in an infinite rage situation and having it qued too much ruins your DPS/TPS output due to lack of rage for a good rotation. Especially once you start moving towards more of the Ulduar fights you will see your rage jumping backand forth from full to almost nothing. On fights like General pre-3.2 the lack of rage on avoidance is a killer and if you are spamming heroic strike when not enough rage you will be missing out on a lot of abilities and when you have 7-10k ranged dps standing in puddles you are going to have problems.

EDIT: HS was much more spammable prior to Ulduar because you had more glyph options to use for glyph of revenge however if you are a Warrior MT you are basically stuck with talents in Imp Disc and glyphs for Shield Wall and Last Stand leaving only 1 glyph spot which is usually better used for Vigilance, Blocking, Devastate then Revenge (General is the real issue needing reduced cooldowns).

08-03-2009, 10:59 AM
Well for me, it works out because we use a DK to tank General. For the fights where I step in rage has never been an issue with HS spam.

08-03-2009, 11:10 AM
To answer your question: Yes, expertise and hit will increase your DPS AND TPS.


Because you hit things more often. It is that simple really.

08-04-2009, 03:07 AM
At Squirrelnut & Khilbron;

this is where using multiple tool bars is great, you create 2 idnentically layed out tool bars, one with HS macroed to eveything, one with HS macroed to nothing, and then you jsut switch between the two depending on your rage. I actually have three which I cycle as I like having cleave macroed to everything as well, as a result CTS has never been an issue.

Alternatively you could just setup a bunch of macroes with modifyer keys, so say holding down CTRL would make each abiltiy tap off a HS too, and likewise ALT would make them tap off cleaves.