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Keleher
07-27-2009, 01:58 PM
Hi all

Im in a bit of trouble with my guild, ad the moment we are 50-60 lvl 80s who are gear for basicly any raid, but we are having big problems with getting people too show up on the raids days and can bearly put a naxx or OS 10man team together...and it is starting too piss me and my officers off.

So if any of you have any advice that might help us get back on our feet please let me know :) thank you...


Note: sorry if my spelling is not perfect...

Thaak
07-27-2009, 02:11 PM
First thing you should look at is the rest of the leadership. Are the officers doing what they are supposed to do? If they don't show up, your raiders won't feel required to show up either. Second are your officers doing their jobs? Are they holding people accountable for their performance? If your officers are not performing, start by replacing them.

Do you have a guild charter, or something similar, that sets forth expectations for the raiders of your guild? If not, you need to create one. Make sure you include everything that is expected of them, including raid attendance. Once you have it made, post it on your website and create a forum thread that everyone can post in to signify they have read/accept it. Provide them with a deadline by which they must post. If they refuse to sign, remove them from the guild.

Post your raids a week in advance, use the ingame calendar if you want. Make it so people can sign up there. If you use a DKP or EPGP reward people that are on time and dock people that are late or no show.

Recruit new people to fill the spots. If the people you have refuse to raid, find people that will.

Its a hard problem to fix, and you will probably lose several members while trying to get back on track, but it is doable. You just need the strength of will to see it through.

Karatheya
07-28-2009, 12:07 AM
It's important that you as leadership know what the purpose of the guild is, and can communicate that to your members. As Keleher mentioned, if your members don't know what's expected of them, you're not going to get them working as a cohesive unit.

I wrote an article some time back about this that might be of some help:

Clarity of Purpose « Cold Comfort (http://blog.cold-comfort.org/2009/05/clarity-of-purpose/)

There's a bunch of other articles there, including one on EP/GP, motivation to raid, officer roles, etc.), but you may need to start with the basics. You may find that while you have 50-60 raiders, they all want something different from endgame and that splitting into two guilds (or having clearly defined "teams" within the guild pursuing different goals) will help focus your efforts.

Good luck.

junkilo
07-28-2009, 12:11 PM
Recruit new people to fill the spots. If the people you have refuse to raid, find people that will.
lay the law down. dont fall into the trap of trying to motivate people to do things they dont want to do in a video game. boot them if they dont do what you want. replace them with people that want to raid and that show up. if people dont follow through on commitments, discipline them once and boot them the second time. like most things in life, you need to set the culture and make sure there are positive and negative consequences that keep your culture thriving.

Skinzenbonz
07-29-2009, 07:48 AM
Some good points already.

What we try to do is have a rank of "Raider" that is expected to meet basic requirements. We expect our raiders to sign IN/OUT for all raids and attend 75% of all raids they committed to by days. We raid 3 days a week and a raider must claim at least 2 and raid 75%+ on those days.

Signups determine who gets to go. Don't sign up and you don't go or go at our whim. Raiders are invited first in the cases of excess signups. When we were short we put the guild on notice that if you don't raid, that is fine BUT we are are recruiting raiders for that spot and the recruits will get priority over social players.

Other incentives is 1/week we have a "progression night" and the guild pays for the raiders repairs. Not much but something.

The key is having clear expectations and rewards/consequences.

Mr.Winkle
07-30-2009, 03:29 AM
My first question is do you actually have a goal?

You claim to have 50-60 members geared for any raid. So does that mean you have 50-60 people who can raid ulduar 25? If that's the case its no wonder people don't want to do some crappy Naxx 10 run.

As people have already said, use the raid claendar, actively persue 1 goal. At the moment it sounds like you just have "raid nights" where you just expect people to turn up and then raid whatever you decide on the spur of the moment. If you stated that you plan to raid nights x,y and z, and each night would be spent progressing in Ulduar 25, then i'm sure your sign ups/turn out would improve.

orcstar
07-30-2009, 03:51 AM
I've never really understood signup systems.

You see guilds having in their recruiting thread: "we raid monday tuesday wednesday from 7-11 can you make that?"
Applicants replying: "Yes I can"

nd then when joining they have to do with a complex signing up system. So people can "choose" when to raid.


I am more and advocate of a signing down system. You signed up for the raiddays on your application so you better show up, and if you can't, let that be known.

phaze
07-30-2009, 07:30 AM
I am more and advocate of a signing down system. You signed up for the raiddays on your application so you better show up, and if you can't, let that be known.

Sure, for guilds that are built for raiding only. For other guilds, signups are great.

loquatious
07-30-2009, 09:15 AM
I've never really understood signup systems.

You see guilds having in their recruiting thread: "we raid monday tuesday wednesday from 7-11 can you make that?"
Applicants replying: "Yes I can"

nd then when joining they have to do with a complex signing up system. So people can "choose" when to raid.


I am more and advocate of a signing down system. You signed up for the raiddays on your application so you better show up, and if you can't, let that be known.

This is exactly my philosophy. We raid 4x per week, you show up, off we go.

If you cant make it you post in the raider absence thread

You consistently miss raids you get demoted to casual and have 2nd prio on invites.

Sark
07-30-2009, 10:59 AM
It sounds like a lot of your people are not really interested in raiding. But it also sounds like the raids (and the guild) is not very organized for raiding either and that will quickly turn people off from wanting to show up for raids. Its a negative feedback cycle that can be somewhat difficult to break out of since it is harder to organize a group of inconsistent casual raiders :)

I would follow the recommendations above to create a "raider" rank in the guild that is for people who want to progress through raid content. Set attendance, spec, gear and gem/enchant requirements for this rank (eg. 50%+ attendance, 1 optimized raid spec, iLvl 200 epics fully enchant and gemmed) - stick to these 100% of the time, zero exceptions. These people should get priority on raid invites and gear. It doesn't have to be a "punishment" not to be a raider, and non-raiders can still come along to raids if they show up, but in order to progress through raid content you need a core group of people that are consistent and are geared up.

You should also set your raid schedule and stick to it. Do you want to do 25 or 10 mans? This schedule should be something that all the officers can make at near 100% attendance. When you recruit new players, make sure they can make all those raid days. Always raid on these days, even if you have to PUG some people at first. This is as much a leadership issue as it is anything else - if you cannot be consistent in running the raids, your members will not be consistent in showing up to them.

Define your loot distribution policies. Lay them out for everyone to see. They do not have to be complicated at all - it could simply be a /roll system where raiders who maintain 50%+ attendance receive priority or something like that. If DKP is appropriate for your guild, you can use that as well. The primary thing is that everyone should understand how the decisions are made ahead of time.

Lastly, be realistic about where your progression is. Your comment in the OP about being geared to do any raid is not true and will just lead to frustration. Build confidence with raids that you can do successfully, and then try to have at least one "progression" raid that is harder to do each week but still possible. If you are able to clear Naxx, maybe your "progression" raid is just Flame Leviathan and Razorscale in Ulduar. Spending an entire night wiping in Ulduar to harder encounters that you don't have the gear/experience level for is not going to help anyone. It takes time and consistency to progress through content and it is pretty difficult to skip ahead.

Keleher
07-30-2009, 06:41 PM
Again ty for all the good and helpfull reply´s

Me and my officers have had some very good talks over the last few day

and have giving the guild a complet makeover, this includes Ranks, Goal, rewards for a job well done ect other then that we have bin more hard on our longtime no-showers and sadly we had to kick a few people but not so many that we feared. And we now have good officers all in charge of they own raid team and ist working really really well so well that our top raiders (me inclueded :P ) cleared Ulduar 10 hardmode yesterday :)

and we also have 1 officer + 1-2 of your top raiders running naxx, OS and EoE 10 with our "upcoming" raiders so they learn the way we do things in our guild, tacts, loot system etc and when doing this all repair bills is picked up by the guild..

and tbh the disiplin and spirit has gone from 0 to 100 these last few days

end words

we went from bearly being able too set up a team for naxx 10

and now

naxx 25 2x cleared

EoE 10/25 cleared

OS 10/25 4x and 2x cleared

Ulduar 10 XT hardmode cleared

all in just 3 days....:)

So once again thank you all.... :)

Sedgewick
08-18-2009, 07:44 PM
Wow, great job & good work pulling it all together

I was going to say, hell, I JUST made a post about this type of nonsense.

Ask Sedge: Vol 2 (http://officerchat.com/archives/ask-sedge-vol-2)