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Bathöry
07-23-2009, 05:11 AM
Ok, so first of all, link to armory profile: The World of Warcraft Armory (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kazzak&n=Bath%C3%B6ry)

Hello, I registered yesterday, after having much use of your very useful guides here.
I recently activated my account again and decided to lvl my 70 warrior to 80, and this is my first 80 so far.
After using the "Easy Pre-Naxx Gear"-guide + crafting some of my gear myself, I have been able to gather the gear you can see on my armory profile.
However, some people still have problems with my gear when I tank, it's a bit frustrating, but I know I got the gear and that I work fine in groups.

However, there is one problem that annoys me, and that is that I want to be able to make more threat.
People sometimes overaggro, and when I was doing CoT hc I was told that I needed to make more threat, but I think I did all I could.
Every melee hit was a Heroic Strike, Shield Bash and Revenge was used as much as possible and Devastate was spammed.
Is it anything more I really can do then?
I was thinking of making myself the Titansteel Bonecrusher, but I am not sure if it will improve my threat output.
It has way more dps, but it is also slower, so I will get out less Heroic Strikes.
I thougt I'd hear with you guys before making it, in case it was a bad idea.

Also, I just joined a new guild formed that's going to start Naxx10, which is perfect for me as I want to experience the content from scratch, but how much do I need to improve my gear to tank in that raid? I think I read in one of the guides that I now should have gear for beginning to tank Naxx10, but I might be wrong, and I can't find out where I read it, so..
Well anyways, some answers would be highly appreciated, and thanks in advance :)

Domiy
07-23-2009, 05:21 AM
Try to get the sword from UP last boss, "Red Sword of Courage" it got better DPS and is a nice tanking weapon. If you want to start tanking Naxx10 for example, you'll need to get some more tanking items from HC's. Just look on wowwiki or so for the drops.

Garshek
07-23-2009, 05:46 AM
Just looking at your spec you might want to consider switching it around to the "cookie cutter" deep wounds spec. That should help your threat increase a bit. Also your expertise is pretty low (6 on your sheet) are you noticing a lot of dodge/parry from mobs? If you're not hitting them, you're not making threat. Who are you using vigilance on?

Also I'd swap out the minor glyph of charge for glyph of thundeclap and the major glyph of sunder armor for either blocking or shockwave.

Those are some quick fixes that should help a bit.

Bathöry
07-23-2009, 06:12 AM
Thanks for a fast reply. :)
I really dislike running heroics and waiting for one item to drop, did it too much in TBC on my warlock. I am currently trying to get the belt from AN hc though.
I discovered the 1H Axe you can purchase through Champion's Seal, so I'm going to just grab that and enchant it with Exceptional Agility. Or maybe I should get Accuracy instead?
What stats should I try to go for before entering Naxx10?

Edit: Thanks Garshek, I will get those glyphs. And yes, I know my expertise is low, and yes, I get many dodges and parries.
I use Vigilance on healer mostly, because I thougt it was a good idea, not quite sure on how to use that one.
Is it better to use it on the dps that cause the most threat?

Garshek
07-23-2009, 06:56 AM
If you're using Omen Threat Meter just glance up at it after a few fights and see who is closest to you in aggro and put it on that person. The healer usually doesn't get THAT much aggro to make it worth while.

Running heroics for 1 item may be a pain but you can save all your badges and turn them into epic gems with 3.2 coming out soon, so think of it more as an investment in your future gold supply :-D

Karisita
07-23-2009, 07:06 AM
1) don't ever ever ever grab the bonecrusher. It sucks for tanking. First hand experience.

2) First problem, 720 str. You need more strength. Strength = melee AP, +dmg, +AP and +dmg = +threat

3) exchange your rage cost mitigation abilities for imp charge, grab some other placeholders from Arms, and get the Impale - Deep Wounds spec. Much more threat.

Don't ever ever ever ignore strength, it gives you AP, dmg, and block. Getting three stats in one is always better than getting a single stat, and it avoids diminishing returns.

4) Breastplate of the Solemn Council is ALWAYS better than tempered saronite IMO. Go get it from your wyrmrest vendor.

5) Special issue legplates > Daunting legguards. Period.

6) Kurzel's Rage is a dps ring. Ditch it for a tanking ring. I know that SOUNDS odd when you're trying to increase threat, but a tanking ring allows you to open up for more +str on other items without dipping under def cap or loosing too much sta.

7) Go to HoL... not heroic... normal... Kill Loken... Rinse/repeat until Seal of the Pantheon drops. Replace Warsong's Fervor. This gives you almost 100 def rating so you can free up other heavier stat bearing items that are currently used for def (and gems... and enchants) for more threat generation. It's usually better to maintain def cap through trinks and other low-stat items than armor, because armor will change frequently as you progress. Thus re-gemming, re-enchanting, and trying to maintain def cap through "up"grades will be almost impossible. You need items you can swap around to maintain def when equipping new peices. Pantheon will definitely do that for you.

If you looking to raid you should be upwards of 900 - 1200 strength. Also, run heroics, and get Crygil's Discarded Plate Panel. Much better tanking shield, though the TSW is a good start, IMO. Your AP and Str are abysmically low, and they are only outshadowed by how truly tiny your avoidance is.

Now don't take this the wrong way, you can pull all this up in a week or two. It's not too hard, run your heroics, esp UP for the red sword of courage. 1.6 spd with +def, str, and sta is a really good sword, though yours is better than mine atm.

You'll get there, don't give up. You're close, just need to regear for def, and regem for str, and you'll be well on your way.

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Shadowsong&cn=Karisita&gn=Blazing+Dragon+Clan)

This is my armory, and I've outthreated Ulduar geared Locks, and I'm still in progression on 10 naxx.

Bathöry
07-23-2009, 07:42 AM
Thank you for a long and very informative post, Karisita. :)

1. Thanks, but what do you guys think of getting Axe of the Sen'Jin Protector (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=45204) instead? I know Garshek mentioned it to be a future gold investment, but that way I dont have to farm yet another instance in hope for something to drop :p

2. I will prioritize STR from now on. :)

3. I read somewhere on Tankspot that you would benefit more from the spec I use now until you have 25% crit chance, so I chose this spec.

4. I am not revered yet, though I am halfway from Honored atm, and using the tabard in every instance.

5. Will go grab them asap. :)

6. I know. I only have one other ring, and thats a green ring with poor defense rating, and I lose shitloads of hit rating by wearing it.
Though I will get more hit rating once I replace Daunting Legguards for example.

7. Will do.

And once again, thanks. Your post helped alot.

Bihn
07-23-2009, 08:20 AM
Thank you for a long and very informative post, Karisita. :)

1. Thanks, but what do you guys think of getting Axe of the Sen'Jin Protector (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=45204) instead? I know Garshek mentioned it to be a future gold investment, but that way I dont have to farm yet another instance in hope for something to drop :p

2. I will prioritize STR from now on. :)

3. I read somewhere on Tankspot that you would benefit more from the spec I use now until you have 25% crit chance, so I chose this spec.
.


1. That axe is fine for introductory tanking. It's about on par with the Red Sword IIRC, so you might as well work at getting both of them at the same time until the one drops or you save the champion's seals for the other.

2. Strength is good, but it is by no means that good. I've never gemmed for strength outside of Prot PvP. I've never heard of a "strength minimum" for raiding, it's just something you acquire through gear over time.

By FAR you are going to be getting a larger benefit by gemming for Expertise (preferably in the form of expertise/stamina gems) or hit than you would gemming for strength.

3. I don't know what my crit chance is raid buffed, but it is way less than 25%. Deep wounds is a solid spec at almost any gear level, and you should see some advantages by speccing into it. If you still don't want to do it, I would at least recommend dropping puncture (it's not as effective as you might think) and filling out the rest of Improved Heroic Strike.


General note: You mentioned your rotation as containing Shield Bash. I assume (and hope) you mean Shield Slam. You also mentioned spamming devastate. AS OF NOW (this might change in 3.2) that is not an effective strategy. Use devastate only is Shield Slam and Revenge are both on cooldown with at least 2 GCD's left before they come back up. Use Conc. Blow and Shockwave on the last GCD before SS comes up if they are not on cooldown. Think of devastate as a filler ability when nothing else good is available.

I really wish I could find this flow chart someone made that explains that better.

Garshek
07-23-2009, 08:27 AM
Yeah, I find Devastate is best used to a) get the debuff on the boss and b) proc S&B. Aside from that it's pretty much a "last resort" option. Conc blow, Shockwave, Heroic Throw are all moves that should be used every time you get them off CD.

I do agree with the STR. It comes with gear, gemming for STR as prot is not usually an accepted idea. As Bihn mentioned expertise/stam gems are solid threat gems.

My "unbuffed" crit chance is around 5%. I've never heard of needing a "crit min" to go with the DW/Impale spec.

Karisita
07-23-2009, 08:31 AM
When I said to gem for str I meant as a short-term fix... sorry for not explaining further. There is no solid minimum as there's plenty of different ways to increase threat, but str increases damage, threat, and avoid, all at once. Plus as a warrior, block is extremely important as it procs revenge, and rev procs S&B for more free SS, and the Imp Rev glyph for free HS, free HS and SS = lots of extra TPR, and more SS cd's = more TPS.

Conc blow and SW are great threat gainers, and thank you Bihn for reminding me, I'd forgotten to add that into mine.

As far as crit, yeah, I've never been that high, and I won't be either. and DW has covered for my shortcomings. (like my horrifically low hit.)

In the end I gemmed a few things for Str just because I needed the ap and the avoid. But usually I'm gemming for Stam, for parry, for def (when needed) exp, hit, whatever I happen to need.

The axe is fine, it's not QUITE equal to the RSoC but it's close enough. Just keep in mind you'll probably farm for the seals longer than you would for the sword. Just a suggestion.

And the worst part is I have that flow chart saved at home. :( But since I'm at work, no flow chart.

Bathöry
07-23-2009, 09:07 AM
Hehe, of course I mean Shield Slam and not Shield Bash. :p I mix those up very much.

So, I should only get 5 stacks of Devastate, and refresh when its needed, nothing else than that?

Bihn
07-23-2009, 09:35 AM
It's pretty situational, so it's hard to say a definite "this is how it goes" rotation. The more you tank, the more you'll get a feel for it. I had started to write an "example rotation", but I had already done 4 or 5 caveats before even getting to the second Shield Slam.

Realistically, you're going to be doing a decent number of devastates. Concussion Blow and Shockwave both take precedence over devastate, but their cooldowns are both long enough so that you can't hit them every cycle. Devastate is just the ability that you drop from the classic SS>Rev>Dev rotation for debuff abilities and long cooldown high threat abilities.
That means IDEALLY (hard hitters and progression bosses are an exception) you're going to want to be refreshing your Thunder Clap and Demo Shout (if another warrior isn't doing it) when you would otherwise be devastating. Same goes for CB and SW.

To recap: It isn't that devastate is something to ignore, it's just ability you can afford to drop from your core rotation when you need to refresh debuffs and activate long cooldown abilities.

Bathöry
07-23-2009, 03:12 PM
Red Sword of Courage dropped on first run, and I am revered with Wyrmrest, so got 2 upgrades now atleast :)

Edit: One question. Should I get the trinket from Emblems, or should I spend them on something else? I have the emblems now, but something else might be a better upgrade.