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Hades
07-21-2009, 06:32 AM
Ok, skipping the history lesson, I end up being just way too bloody squishy to tank heroics despite having a couple of the best healers on the server with me regularly. In some cases, it's totally my bad. I LOS the priest and end up dying. Yay for stupid. Usually, I do pretty well with that though.

Ok, since armory's back up, I can throw my spec in there too!
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Shattered+Halls&n=Had%C3%A9s&group=2)
Be Imba! - the online Character Auditor for World of Warcraft (http://be.imba.hu/?zone=US&realm=Shattered+Halls&character=Had%C3%A9s)

Moving on. And yes, I've been sticking to Heroics to get geared/practice for bigger things. I've got about 24k HP buffed, and 32% total avoidance to go with my def cap (Actually def rate is 550, so I'm thinking of changing my rune from SSG to Swordshattering)

My rotation is DnD, IT, PS, Pest - reapply diseases, 2xBB, HB. Dump as needed.

Holding aggro isn't a problem unless there's a reckless ret pally in the group that doesn't give me a two second head start, and I face mobs (trash too) away from the group since nobody's hit/exp capped.

I figure the issue is my gear, but I'm broke as hell (Like 150g currently) and I'm the only active/geared tank in my guild, which means there's CONSTANT demand for me, which just turns to a bunch of us congratulating each other for valliant, yet losing efforts. I've literally gone broke off repairs, and taken a few guildies with me. Is there anything I can do differently to keep Skytzophrenik afloat?

Meldwyn
07-21-2009, 06:48 AM
Two comments:

1. You are in the right place. Research your class for tanking and ask plenty of questions. Everything can be upgraded... skills, knowledge, and gear. Don't get discouraged and be thankful that you are the only tank.. you get all the defense drops! :-)

2. If you are over the Def cap for Heroics (535), then don't sweat the gear... you will upgrade in time. I would focus more on skills, rotation, camera, awareness, communication, leadership, etc... You are the tank, you are the leader, if someone is doing something that is causing issues, address it in a calm and appropriate way. Never yell at anyone, just discuss it and come up with a better plan.

Last night I was tanking the daily heroic... I noticed that our healer was jumping on heals a little too soon and was drawing unneeded aggro for me to chase down... i ask him to allow for a little time for me to engage and get all aggro built up on me. worked very well after that. He was much relieved to see a difference in the performance of the group when he waited a bit to start the heals.

But above all, don't get too discouraged. If you love tanking, you will get better every time you do it. I know I have.

Oh, and check this out if you are concerned with gear and where to get upgrades http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f97/41986-cider-s-easy-540-defense-gear-guide.html

good luck!

Silveronfire
07-21-2009, 06:52 AM
I feel your pain man, I just got through heroics a few weeks ago on my dk tank. (also a frost tank)

First things first. your rotation for trash is sub-optimal.

DnD, Howling blast (glyphed) followed by BB to burn the last blood rune and pop blade barrier. this will leave you with DnD up and FF on all targets. from here hit FS, RS, and obliterates until HB is back up or you get a rime proc, BB to burn the blood runes.

Dont bother with plague strike on trash. Its not worth the Global Cooldown.

right now gearing dk tanks have a huge advantage on trash....1 min IBF. Use it. Abuse it. Make healers cry their love for you!!!! I blow IBF on every pull its up right now. (3.2 going to change that =( )

Gear- you need some pieces and you need em fast. Rep rewards are ftw here man. you should be grinding Argent Dawn rep for the pants (more stam than yours a socket=win) head enchant (way better than armor patch) and then Wyrmrest for the chest/boots.

Dont go the route of dropping SSG just yet. your defense is artificially inflated from the daunting gear and the green axe you have equipped. Go do your argent crusade dailies. Get the free gold (to cover your losses) and the champion's seal 2 hander for way better tps and more stam.

Once you get a little bit better geared, farm the crap outta AN for essence of gossamer.

Hope this helps.

Happy tanking.

Hades
07-22-2009, 01:52 AM
Definitely grateful for the input, and it left me with a question that Cider's incredible guide couldn't really answer.

The shirt and ring dropped by Thron'ja in Heroic DTK: Are they worth farming the place for until I can get my rep up with Wyrmrest and Argent Crusade? After all, barring some galactic misalignment, that's literally the one place I can lead my group through without a single death on a regular basis.

While I'm here, I figured I'd ask. Is there any way better than a deathchilled HB to guarantee aggro on Keleseth's adds in UK? They seem to love eatin' healers, and Hungering Cold has no effect. Yes, I really tried that lol. Learn through experimentation, right? ;)

Martie
07-22-2009, 02:11 AM
Moving on. And yes, I've been sticking to Heroics to get geared/practice for bigger things. I've got about 24k HP buffed, and 32% total avoidance to go with my def cap (Actually def rate is 550, so I'm thinking of changing my rune from SSG to Swordshattering)32% total avoidance? That's a lot lower then what I'd expect to see. You should have about 12-15% dodge, 8-10% parry and 8-10% chance of being missed just for hitting the def minimum, and that's not counting the death knights str-to-parry thing.


My rotation is DnD, IT, PS, Pest - reapply diseases, 2xBB, HB. Dump as needed.

Why are you reapplying diseases? You have them talented to last for 21 seconds, so you won't need to reapply them untill your third rotation. Those runes can be used to cast better spells.


I figure the issue is my gear, but I'm broke as hell (Like 150g currently) and I'm the only active/geared tank in my guild, which means there's CONSTANT demand for me, which just turns to a bunch of us congratulating each other for valliant, yet losing efforts. I've literally gone broke off repairs, and taken a few guildies with me. Is there anything I can do differently to keep Skytzophrenik afloat?
Slow down the speed of the pulling untill you are geared up properly - there's no justification of running mad through heroics when you can't run through them easily.
There are many multi-mob packs that allow for some crowd control - a lot of DPS classes have this ability, so use it.
Know what to kill first. In Uthgarde Pinnacle, for example, there are dragonflaying strategists that do a hard but avoidable AoE attack, if you use your marks properly, you can get them down first.
My own order of killing is usually healers - casters - others - melee. Melee damage is mitigated by armor, and you can dodge or parry it, it is thus usually best kept for last.
Ask your group members to use damage-reducing abilities on hard packs. All warriors can use a demoralizing shout, and warlocks could throw a curse of weakness on a melee (and since that melee is dying last, the dps reduction doesn't have to matter much.)
Don't AoE mobs down too much - single target killing may be a tad slower, but it'll reduce your incoming damage.
And finally, use those cooldowns. On trash packs, the hardest part of the fight is usually the beginning of the fight, so feel free to use cooldowns then. DKs have a lot of good cooldowns, no reason not to use them. This works hand in hand with the slowed pace - you'll get to use those abilities on more fights.

To stay afloat raise reputations to max. You should be able to stay repaired if you do three dailies for every four wipes - yes it's a lot of work, but it works hand in hand with getting those reputations maxed, and it opens up new gear and enchants.

Hope this helps.

Hades
07-23-2009, 03:26 AM
Admittedly, I hadn't even factored in the chance I'd be missed at all so with my 16.x% parry and 13.x% dodge, it'll actually be closer to 40% avoidance unbuffed. I do keep a rather methodical pace, and rather than mark I just bark orders on occasion over vent. Other than a reasonably geared warlock, most of the DPS in my guild is hitter classes. Mainly DKs, but there's a smattering of pallies and warriors so in Utgarde, we take the Strategists first since they do have that AoE and the runecasters go down pretty easy second without doing much harm. I'll talk to the lock, and have him throw Curse of Weakness on the melee mobs though just for added safety once I have them reigned in. Thanks again guys!

NexsusTheFrostDeathKnight
07-23-2009, 03:55 AM
imp frost presence, guile of gorefiend, and HBglyphed >DnD
That's what I can see is happening.

Nunes
07-23-2009, 03:58 AM
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0xhZhxxxA0Ik00iostcxh:kwamVM)

If you want to be Frost, your spec should look something like that.

Blood should be something like:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#jcEGVh0IcbobssxhxZ0gh:ioGVmM)

Unholy will resemble something like:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0EZ0xxZfghc00dLIqocoup:AMrVMm)

Always pull with DnD, IT PS then pest, wait for runes / blood tap for a blood boil, then feel free to do whatever the hell you want.

Silveronfire
07-23-2009, 05:37 AM
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0xhZhxxxA0Ik00iostcxh:kwamVM)

If you want to be Frost, your spec should look something like that.


Always pull with DnD, IT PS then pest, wait for runes / blood tap for a blood boil, then feel free to do whatever the hell you want.

I would advise against the above build. always always go for bladed armor....its been beaten to death on this and other forums as among the highest tps boosters available to DK's

and again that rotation is not for frost.

DND, HB (Glyphed), BB.

Frost DK's do not use PS on trash. I use it on bosses for a more obliterate based rotation looking like this:

IT, PS, OB, BS, BS, dump RP Free HB when available.

If you glyph for pestilence, now is the time to use it as a dicount way to maintain diseases.

PS, OB, BS, OB, dump, repeat.

That rotation works great for bosses. I find that the glyph of pestilence allows me much more freedom to obliterate more often during each rotation and since obliterate procs rime....well you can see where im going :D.

happy tanking.

Masto
07-24-2009, 02:45 AM
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0EMZhxx0AbI0f0iostMx:TkazmM)

The perfect Frost Tanking spec. Enjoy.