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View Full Version : Effective Health / Mit - Blood DK



Tippie
07-20-2009, 02:17 PM
So i've been reading and going back and forth on a number of issues. Gemming pure STAM can put me nearly 50k hps, but my dodge suffers a ton. I've read to aim for 565 def, so i can use the 4% parry rune on my weapon, due to that 4% being after DR. I've managed to get 565 def, and have my dodge / parry fairly decent. Healers claim i'm easy to heal, but my health pool is lower than nearly 90% of the other Blood DK's I armory.

Advice?
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kel'Thuzad&n=Tipscythe)

Kazeyonoma
07-20-2009, 03:08 PM
why 565 def? All you need is 540...

and wrong forum. Please re-read the rules located at the top of every forum or now conveniently in my signature.

Moved to correct forum.

Ion
07-20-2009, 03:11 PM
He's saying 565 w/stoneskin gargoyle so that he can NOT use that and switch to the 4% parry rune instead and still be at 540.

As to the question itself...it's probably BECAUSE of all that defense you've stacked...all your dragon's eyes are defense and not stam as is your chest enchant.

You're basically gearing for avoidance...it's no surprise that your health suffers for it.

vine
07-21-2009, 07:54 AM
Stoneskin also give a stam boost, and in general for DK's: EH > Avoidance will make your healers happy. Yes we are avoidance tanks, but it's better to have a larger healthpool to absorb the RNG hits.

Miagorme
07-21-2009, 08:41 AM
While I understand why it's easy to assume avoidance is best for DK's since it's so easy to get up to ~60% chance to avoid damage, I'll share why effective health is agreed to be more effective as of now.

Usually, healers will claim you are easy to heal because you are. You will dodge a lot with that much avoidance. On difficult, hard-hitting bosses, though, there's always the chance that you will not avoid at all for 3 to 4 hits. Without enough health to take a couple hits, having even 80%+ avoidance is useless, since bad luck will cause wipes. It's better to go for stamina since bad luck can't make that stat useless, but bad luck can make avoidance completely useless.

Replacing all of your +def rating gems with +stam gems and going back to Stoneskin Gargoyle, you will get 171 more stamina and 2% more health. This will give you a lot more health at the cost of ~3-5% avoidance. With that in mind, you'll be able to take those 3 or 4 consecutive hits without dying, and your health pool will be much larger to better utilize the self-healing aspect of Blood.

Tippie
07-21-2009, 11:08 AM
TY!!

Tippie
07-22-2009, 07:31 AM
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kel'Thuzad&n=Tipscythe)


better?

vine
07-22-2009, 01:59 PM
Awesome-sauce.

Tippie
07-23-2009, 01:02 PM
Cleared uld yesterday, minor problems... my Threat sucks :( my hit is pretty low. How much stam can i safely drop, to up my hit?

vine
07-23-2009, 06:01 PM
You logged out in dps gear so I can't tell, but for blood tanking you want expertise not hit. Log a run and post the parse so we can see what's going on. Also are you macroing Rune Strike to every ability?

#showtooltip
/cast Heart Strike
/cast !Rune Strike

#showtooltip
/cast Death Strike
/cast !Rune Strike

#showtooltip
/cast Icy Touch
/cast !Rune Strike

etc...

Tippie
07-24-2009, 07:54 AM
logged out in proper gear.

I have 2 specs now. both Blood tanking please look at each.

1 spec, i have Glyph for Vamp Blood, mark, and wotn.

2nd spec, i took Glyph for 15% dmg to death coil, and 3/3 sudden doom to try and help out threat. The trade off is no Vamp Blood glyph, and no Mark...

should i swap out my 16hit gem for exp?

Yeah I have every ability macro'ed with a rune strike.

Thaak
07-24-2009, 08:03 AM
Are you using hit rating food?

Tippie
07-24-2009, 10:47 AM
no, using fish feasts

Tippie
07-24-2009, 10:48 AM
I guess what is the target Hit i should get first, before going full out stam ? i have 32 exp, and 186ish hit

Thaak
07-24-2009, 10:53 AM
That was my subtle way of saying use hit food. Its +40 HR, which if you're not capped, it probably better than 80atp.

Tippie
07-24-2009, 10:53 AM
also the armory ring is wrong, it should be seal of ulduar... bringing my exp to 64...

Insahnity
07-24-2009, 11:20 AM
It's not about "how much stamina can I afford to lose" as much as "I have a set of goals to hit" and anything after that is gravy between stam, avoidance and DPS for threat (and everybody wants to choose stam these days). So keep in mind all the caps (Defense-540, expertise-27, hit-263), subtract what your gear naturally gives you, and then gem accordingly. If your gear gives too much of one stat (in your case, expertise), then consider some other pieces of gear, even lower ones from say nax25, because in the long run it might be better (less wasted itemization).

To the community in general, please help fill out this list

Ulduar gear gives a lot of ???? over Nax
-Hit rating

Nax gear gives a lot of ???? over Ulduar
-Expertise
-ArP

iLVL permitting, there is no bias for
-Defense
-Stamina
-Strength
-Haste
-Crit
-Dodge
-Parry
-Block (SBV/SBR)
-Agility

Incidentally, while DKs are avoidance tanks, Blood DKs get more benefits from stam than other DKs, which is why they stack stam more so than avoidance, and why Blood tanks are becoming more popular (Because EVERYBODY stacks stam, so why not pick the spec that gets the most from stam!). With 2 specs to play with, I would have a blood spec with a stam stacked gearset, and a second gear set (avoidance or threat set) with (frost or unholy) 2nd spec for utility. The blood spec with stam stack would be progression, and the other spec/gearset would be for farming/heroics/etc.

Tippie
07-24-2009, 12:27 PM
earlier in thread

but for blood tanking you want expertise not hit


then the previous posts says,

(Defense-540, expertise-27, hit-263)


Exp cap is 26 from behind the mob, which isnt the case for tanks. What is it for us in front of him?

keeprock
07-24-2009, 01:20 PM
It is 56 from the front but many tanks settle for the 26 dps softcap. This will still effectively prevent the amount of times you get parried and dodged. In my informal research at expertise 26, I would estimate you still get dodged and parried about 3 to 5% overall. Of course any mood swings by the RNG can still throw that out the window.

Insahnity
07-24-2009, 01:29 PM
Fat fingers at 27 expertise cap, I meant 26. But really, I was talking about soft caps, because going for hard cap on expertise and hit (much more than 263) generally gimps too many other stats.

Molohk
07-24-2009, 01:41 PM
It is 56 from the front but many tanks settle for the 26 dps softcap. This will still effectively prevent the amount of times you get parried and dodged. In my informal research at expertise 26, I would estimate you still get dodged and parried about 3 to 5% overall. Of course any mood swings by the RNG can still throw that out the window.

That's not entirely accurate. Bosses have a 6.5% chance to dodge your attacks and 14% chance to parry your attacks. At 26 expertise you will fully negate the boss' chances to dodge, but you'll still have a chance to be parried. So at 26 expertise you cannot be dodged (by a 83 mob), regardless of mood or RNG, but you will still get parried. Which is why after 26 expertise, the value of expertise is considerably lower.

Tippie
09-03-2009, 01:26 PM
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kel'Thuzad&n=Tipscythe)

I've gotten some upgrades, but my threat still sucks HUGE vs Druids/ paladins / warriors.

Im now at 238 hit ( 7.26% ) so still not completely capped... Is it worth a 20 hit gem to loose 30 stam gem ?

Esch
09-03-2009, 03:29 PM
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kel%27Thuzad&n=Tipscythe)

I've gotten some upgrades, but my threat still sucks HUGE vs Druids/ paladins / warriors.

Im now at 238 hit ( 7.26% ) so still not completely capped... Is it worth a 20 hit gem to loose 30 stam gem ?

Yes. Missing a single taunt or initial attack can severely mess with controlling fights (think if you miss a taunt on Thorim, for example). I would put it in your shoulders or belt though, since you're not using those socket bonuses anyways. Alternately, see if you (still) have Signet of the Impregnable Fortress (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40718) to substitute for the Platinum Band of the Aesir. You trade some avoidance for the hit rating and can see how that works, with a much smaller loss in stamina.

For threat, assuming you're macro'ing Rune Strike, remember these things:

Paladin threat is nuts. Odds are, once they have it, taunting is your only way to take it off them.

Rune Strike requires RP to function. A common issue issue is folks dumping all the RP they can into Frost Strike or Death Coil, and starving Rune Strike from ever going off. Be sure to keep 20+ RP saved at all time, as an unused FS/DC isn't going to make the threat potential of RS.