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View Full Version : Since when did threat become an issue???



Tayschren
07-15-2009, 04:19 PM
I recently switched to a new guild, which happens to be a HUGE step up from my prior guild. I was thrown into uld 25's and now I am having trouble holding threat against people who have a lot better DPS.

5k TPS used to be more than enough, but now I am struggling. How do I really push my TPS? I know that Blood has solid TPS, but I dont know if I want to look into another spec, right as I am really starting to fit into Frost.

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=6&tal=0050020000000000000000000000305050503520331123 0025101351005000000000000000000000000000)

^ My current build.

I would like to wiggle points into Bladed Armor, but I cant really figure out where I want to take points out of.

My normal rotation is
IT>PS>OB>BS>BS>RS when it procs>dump runic
OB>OB>OB rinse and repeat.

Suggestions?

Many thanks,
Anubis

Tayschren
07-15-2009, 05:31 PM
gentle bump

vine
07-15-2009, 06:45 PM
Icy Talons and Merciless Combat are DPS talents, you could easily pull points out of those to make room for Bladed Armour. Rotation seems fine other than not including D&D. If you want some proper feedback though link your Armoury profile.

Silveronfire
07-16-2009, 07:03 AM
When do you have threat problems? in the initial pull or during the middle of the fight? I use a spec really similar to yours and find that threat in the first 5 sec is bleh, but I go from 3-5k threat to 20....sort of like a car getting stuck in first gear?

I've taken to asking dps to hold for 5 sec, most can handle that...I would love a more secure pulling rotation though, if nothing else to save the life of the overzealous 10k crit dps who can't count so well.

Esch
07-16-2009, 07:17 AM
Imp Icy Talons & Icy Talons would be okay to drop - odds are a shaman is providing Windfury (or can), so this won't penalize the raid. DO mention it though to a raidleader/officer, so no one is surprised if they are relying on you.

I would keep Merciless Combat. I dislike it, but it's useful to ensuring your DPS lead on gimmick (Hodir) fights when DPS opens up with 'low health target' abilities like Execute, but also helps down stuff faster. This is more important for you, as I suspect your gear level is behind the DPS' gear.

Look at getting some method, such as the mod "Power Auras Classic" to track Killing Machine procs, then focus on employing those KM Procs exclusively on Frost Strike/Howling Blast abilities. This is a SIGNIFICANT amount of threat you can generate in a controlled fashion. Note also that having haste does improve KM's proc rate as PPM, which is something to consider if KM/FS-HB works. You'll be able to get Icy talons back, which will buff the KM Proc rate.

keeprock
07-16-2009, 08:07 AM
I would like to wiggle points into Bladed Armor, but I cant really figure out where I want to take points out of.

My normal rotation is
IT>PS>OB>BS>BS>RS when it procs>dump runic
OB>OB>OB rinse and repeat.

Suggestions?

RS needs to be macroed into every ability you use for maximum threat. If your using it in a rotation, chances are your delaying using it until it's turn in your rotation. It's the #1 threat generating ability. Macro'ing it into every spell ensures it does it's job first. Look in the macro forum for the macro.

As already stated, you can pull points from Icy talons (all 6), merciless combat, 1 out of killing machine, and the 1 in death chill. All could be better spent in bladed armor, scent of blood, and epidemic.

Satorri
07-16-2009, 08:57 AM
The above is right on. You don't need to switch trees to get better threat. Personally, I do better threat with Frost than Blood (marginally, but it says so in threat parses =D).

Esch
07-16-2009, 09:14 AM
As already stated, you can pull points from Icy talons (all 6), merciless combat, 1 out of killing machine, and the 1 in death chill. All could be better spent in bladed armor, scent of blood, and epidemic.

Bladed Armor - Yes.

Epidemic - Useful, but not required (HB Glyph applies Frost Fever, and PS is debatable based on playstyle, glyphs, etc.).

Scent of Blood - I have to disagree. I've opted out of it and as long as the proc rate is 15%, you're looking at an average 3.75 procs on a dehasted (Frost Fever debuff) boss, and that means 60 RP/minute.

I personally find that managing RS procs is more about not dumping your entire RP bar, but reserving 20+ RP. Too many folks mash keys then wonder why they're not getting RS, then try to get more RP generation instead of managing it more effectively. I keep hoping a target dummy will get added at some point that actually swings at you, if only to give folks the ability to see how 'incoming' attacks can affect playstyle.

Molohk
07-16-2009, 10:06 AM
The above posts are correct, but it would be nice if you had a combat log we could look at.

DKs don't have flat threat bonuses, they're all multipliers, which means your TPS is largely based on DPS (only second to your RS effectivenes). Since you just stepped into a better guild, you could be outgeared by your dps, which can likely cause TPS problems.

Like Satorri said, changing trees won't really improve your TPS unless you already have more experience with another tree. You're probably better off sticking with frost and getting better at it.

Molohk
07-16-2009, 10:13 AM
Oh, and are you taking advantage of all your KM and Rime procs? That's a big help for frost TPS.

keeprock
07-16-2009, 03:16 PM
Bladed Armor - Yes.

Epidemic - Useful, but not required (HB Glyph applies Frost Fever, and PS is debatable based on playstyle, glyphs, etc.).

Scent of Blood - I have to disagree. I've opted out of it and as long as the proc rate is 15%, you're looking at an average 3.75 procs on a dehasted (Frost Fever debuff) boss, and that means 60 RP/minute.

I personally find that managing RS procs is more about not dumping your entire RP bar, but reserving 20+ RP. Too many folks mash keys then wonder why they're not getting RS, then try to get more RP generation instead of managing it more effectively. I keep hoping a target dummy will get added at some point that actually swings at you, if only to give folks the ability to see how 'incoming' attacks can affect playstyle.

I agree with all these points. Anyone of these talents is a personal choice. I like epidemic because I can refresh diseases every 2nd "rotation" instead of every 1. I like having 2 diseases up when I'm death striking a boss for the heals. And I generally replace HB with IT for any single target work.

I like Scent of blood because it provides me with too much RP. I've tanked without it and I can maintain all my Rune Strikes but there's not much extra RP for Frost Strikes. Certainly a tank doesn't require the Frost Strikes but it fills in some of my down time when all the runes are on cooldown.

A dummy that hits back would be simply amazing for tank research.