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Spooly
07-08-2009, 10:07 PM
Alrighty guys, I have been watching TankSpot for a while now and have read through tonnes of the guides but i still have some questions. So I'm a Gnomish tanking machine! I keep finding from people saying "Spooly, your gears a little low for this" mostly said for Heroic : Pinnicle, Oculus, Halls of Lightning and Stone. and 10's and 25's. So first things first.

My Talent Spec, im sure i've botched it some how and im looking to get it fixed. my talent spec can be found here.

Talents (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Shandris&cn=Spooly&gn=Catastrophe)

Any tips where i can move tallent points around would be fantastic!

Question Two!

Am i gearing my self right? I'm trying to gem mostly Stamina and a Bit of Strength ( for the added block ) but I'm finding im needing to gem in defence rating too. and am i getting the right stats? In some heroics im feeling like im getting a whole punched through my chest every time I go in to take a hit.

Gear (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Shandris&cn=Spooly&gn=Catastrophe)

And Number three!

I am Struggling with a rotation, for single mobs generally i spam devistate with a sheild slam in there when its off cool down and same with revenge.. then i thunderclap and start heroic strike.. I'm sure their is a way more efficient way to get threat and DPS. And multi mobs of more then three or four is near impossible for me. I am also a fabled clicker... no keybindings for me, i find them way to hard to work with.

I am a newish tank so any tips and such would be amazing!

Tanksforus
07-08-2009, 10:12 PM
your single target rotation sounds about right.

Charge in if possible, shield block, shield slam,
After that u use shield slam and revenge every cooldown, get 5 devastates in till 5 sunders and then spam heroic strike waiting for cooldowns, i chuck heroic throw and concusssion blow in there aswell free threat.

For multi target again i open with charge, thunder clap, align mobs shockwave, followed by thunder clap, and then cleave shield slam revenge tabbing, aoe tanking as warrior takes a bit of worktry get a rogue on your runs, there trick of trade at start of every pull is op

Tanksforus
07-08-2009, 10:19 PM
o and dont gem for strenght, if u just started doing heroics, cant access armory to see your gear. but u will need more avoidance than threat. Personally i would never gem strenght unless building a block set,

U will have plenty of rage when first starting, so threat shouldnt be a problem. gem for dodge, expertise,hit and defense rating if needed

Once u get naxx gear u can stop gemming for dodge parry, and go stam and expertise, as u should get enough hit and avoidance with gear from there

Gl Man

Aethelas
07-09-2009, 12:06 AM
Never gem for parry.

Talents: You're well of getting improved thunderclap and Incite. Both will help with threat, and improved thunderclap works wonders in aoe threat situations. You could drop 3 points in Shield specialisation and 2 points in Safeguard to make this work. With an extra point in arms for Anger management you really should not ever find yourself without rage. The rest of the build looks decent to me.

The items you have look more than fine for tanking heroics naxx 10 and decent enough for the lower quarters of Naxx 25 in my book. Your expertise is very low - you're well off getting some more since expertise (up to 26 skill) will give you the equivalent threat of about 11% hit. Try to socket the red slots with stam/expertise gems, the yellow ones with stam/defense rating and the blue ones with stamina. At least that's the rule of thumb I applied so far. I'd try to run heroic Azjol nerub for the stamina trinket for one (it will serve you well), Ahn Kahnet for the bracers. The 2nd trinket is more of a personal preference, keep the hit one, or get Lavanthor's Talisman or perhaps the dodge trinket from badges. Upgrading the Jewelcrafting neck to the emblem of herois neck will also nicely up your threat output.

(might want to get the improved cleave glyph if you're running loads of hero's it's good for that)

Squirrelnut
07-09-2009, 03:58 PM
1) Clicker = ineffective tank, keybind everything and force yourself to learn it; you will be twice the player if you do.
2) Get the def minimum (get seal of the pantheon trinket from halls of lightning or repelling charge from nax) and work towards the exp/hit caps. 540+ def, 263 hit, 26+ exp.
3) Gem for stam & expertise, never gem for str, ap, parry
4) Rotation: http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f14/41426-ideal-warrior-single-target-threat-rotation.html

For more info: http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/50689-prot-warrior-summarized-info-links.html

Unger
07-09-2009, 04:36 PM
I have a few pieces of advice.

Spec - Makes me want to cry. Not having Incite or Imp Thunderclap is not good. Incite significantly increases threat, especially on bosses when you have tons of rage since you will be spamming heroic strike. Incite gives you +15% to crit with heroic strike, TC and cleave (which I will address in a minute). Imp TC slows the attacking mob 12% (I think). That is huge for survivability. You need both of these.

Ditch safeguard, anger management, iron will and puncture. Put them in the above items and improved heroic strike and give yourself the extra point in Focused Rage. You put 3 points to lower the cost of devastate but you didnt max Focused Rage? Why? Focused Rage gives you a devastate that is 1 point lower but it does it for ALL of your offensive abilities.

Use the deep wounds spec on Tankspot. It is a good starter spec.

Glyphs - Get rid of Glyph of Sunder Armor and get Glyph of Cleave. It will help a lot with the AOE threat (as will your new spec).

Enchant your weapon and your shield. I use accuracy for my weapon, but titanium chain works well as a low cost alternate. Also, you can get a ton of defense from your shield enchant. Its 20 Defense. Get it.

Also, you dont need to have 540 defense because you have resiliance on your shoulders. I think (check my math boys) that with that enchant, you only need 536.

I assume those gloves and wrists didnt have sockets and you used your BS to put on in them.

Your trinkets are bad.... but getting those is hard. Run regular HoL until your fingers bleed (no saving to regular events). Dont stop until you get Seal of the Pantheon. Then run Heroic AN every day until the spider boss drops the Essence of Gossamer. I am fully decked out in Ulduar gear and I still use this trinket.

Finally.... you gotta stop clicking.... I know it will suck.... but I have never heard of a tank that was any good at all that didnt use keybindings.... cut the cord and go to keybindings.

Good luck.

Spooly
07-09-2009, 08:17 PM
Haha, Thanks guys for the quick replies, Why do i need to keep stacking defense if I'm sitting at 540 with the added Resilience? Enchanting my Axe, I was thinking mongoose, but it adds parry on chance and i don't want to get an instant hit on parry right?

Switch out sunder armour glyph? Why? - It applies to a second target which is free threat to the target beside mine..

If i take out Safeguard, anger management, iron will and puncture I have 12 points to spend. So three go to Heroic Strike, Incite gets 3, Thunderclap gets 3, and focused rage gets 1.. that leaves me two points left over.. so should i throw those last two points into Puncture?

I find key binds are soo hard! i tried and failed.. i keep miss clicking, i had it laid out
| A | S | D |

|Strafe left| Up |Strafe Right|

and such, I want to not use Caps as a switcher.. So if anyone could help me lay out my key bindingss that'd be cool.

Thanks again!


~Spooly

Edit : missed adding Glyph on the Sunder Armour part. my bad.

Tanksforus
07-09-2009, 08:24 PM
Fill focused rage up with the w points.

sunder armour do hardly any threat anymore. it increases the damage u do on the target with sunders on it. alot of warriors have done the testing, It just isnt good enough

Spooly
07-14-2009, 07:47 PM
Thanks guys for the tips! So I've been getting steadily better geared with in the week or so. including getting the badge Necklace and the chest piece. I've been working very hard on getting ready to start MT - ing things. Do you think I can MT naxx 10, I've done arachnid and parts of plague as MT but I'm worried im being carried through by my healers. Thanks in advanced

~Spooly

-- I also worked on doing Keybinds.. Wow. hard to learn but in one night (ran Gnomer and HoS (reg) and i picked them up. with out my keybinds im completely lost go figure. --

Squirrelnut
07-15-2009, 09:41 AM
Nax 10 doesn't require much gear you should be fine for MTing if you know the strat for each boss. You really do need to upgrade your trinkets however as they are currently crap. H AN for essence of gossamer and normal HoL for a seal of the pantheon. Those two would greatly improve your HP and your Defence allowing you to gem more efficiently. Trinket change or not you NEED to get rid of any parry gems parry is horrible expertise or stam is much better.

Keep workin on keybinds until everything is bound and you don't even have to think about it let alone look at your keyboard :)

Kerchunk
07-15-2009, 01:32 PM
Haha, Thanks guys for the quick replies, Why do i need to keep stacking defense if I'm sitting at 540 with the added Resilience?

Because it remains the single best source of avoidance and mitigation in the game for you, even after 540. I run near 570 in my primary set.

4.92 Defense Rating adds 0.04% to your chances to Dodge, Parry, Block and be Missed. No other stat provides as much avoidance and mitigation per point and in such a balanced way.


Enchanting my Axe, I was thinking mongoose, but it adds parry on chance and i don't want to get an instant hit on parry right?

The myth of the parry gib is largely overstated. I've been tanking for years and honestly I think it's happened to me once on Prince in Karazhan and never before or since.


Switch out sunder armour glyph? Why? - It applies to a second target which is free threat to the target beside mine..

AoE tanking is not the Warrior's forte. You could argue that that's all the more reason to glyph for it, but I would argue that you're much more valuable as a single-target tank so focus on that.

There are a lot of really good glyphs for Tanking and spending one on improving an area that you're STILL not going to excel in is probably not wise.


.. so should i throw those last two points into Puncture?

No, fill out Focused Rage.


I find key binds are soo hard!.. So if anyone could help me lay out my key bindingss that'd be cool.

First, you don't need turn on your keyboard. Unbind those keys.

Next, start binding your most-often used abilities to the keys nearest your movement buttons so you can easily strafe and activate your important abilities.

1234
qwer
asdf
zxcv

That's what I call my "home square" of keys. wasd for movement, and the rest for abilities.

Also, don't be afraid to bind things to your mouse. I heroic strike, shield bash, shield wall, spell reflect, charge, intervene and war stomp all using my mouse.

duniank
07-16-2009, 11:02 AM
single target u just keep revenge and SS on CD, concusion blow, shockwave on CD for bosses spam heroic strike and cleave if you REALLY high on rage (probably wont have that much rage until uldaur). a very important part of your rotation should also be to keep shield block on constant cool down. it increases your threat too much to keep off CD

Squirrelnut
07-16-2009, 11:10 AM
In truth I had much less rage issues in Nax then I have in Ulduar. Our rage problems directly scale to a worse level with improved gear and avoidance :( In Nax many of the pulls have multiple mobs that hit you more often but for less damage also helping rage generation.

If you use the glyph of revenge/heroic strike like I did back in Nax it really improves your ability to use HS frequently without many rage starvation issues.

You still have spec problems, in pre-ulduar content I would REALLY suggest going with the old 15/5/51 spec Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#LAM00fZhbZMItrx0zidIzsGo:dbomMz) as it puts out great threat, good rage generation and decent survivability.

Gag order is a nice talent that should not be ignored, an extra silence ability is really nice to have in various situations.

Spooly
07-16-2009, 09:06 PM
Yeah, Im not having Problems with rage starvation at least when I'm MT'ing Im working on getting rid of the parry gem I have, and Talent wise, i like the increased Rage compilation vs. the added Crit and the silence. I may play around with it yet. I'll be trying to get the trinket from HoL and H AN this week but other then that. Im getting way more comfortable with tanking.

according to Omen i generally run about 3k tps. is that good?

Also, would it be worth the badges to get the Dodge one? gett gossamer and the dodge badge trinket? or get all three for different situations?

Squirrelnut
07-17-2009, 08:09 AM
If you are not having rage starvation problems (which you really shouldn't in lower tier gear in Nax) you would be MUCH better off with 15/5/51 for a few reasons:

- 2 points in cruelty are very helpful with regard to getting the most out of not only all your main abilities like Shield Slam & Revenge but also getting Deep Wounds going for a good amount of your total damage output

- 2 points in Gag Order greatly improve your versatility with the ability to silence targets from a distance as well as increasing your highest priority attack's damage (shield slam) by 10%

- You would fill those 4 spots by pulling 1 point out of Anger Management from the Arms tree (which you don't need since you have 3 points in Focused Rage in the Prot tree) and taking 3 points out of Shield Specialization which is a lacluster talent. Basically shield block is our worst avoidance stat (other then parry) and taking 3% out of it does not really cause survivability issues as long as you gem/enchant your gear correctly for eh & exp.

- Lastly you need to get rid of that sunder glyph, it is completely worthless compared with your other alternatives since you shouldn't be using sunder anywhere in your rotation since it should be replaced with devastate. The devastate glyph on the other hand is a viable option.

- I suppose you could get the emblem trinket but it is mediocre at best and would be replaced as soon as you get anything like essence of gossamer or seal of the pantheon.

3k tps is ok on trash however if that is your single target threat on a boss it is a bit low. There are a lot of gear upgrades available for you even in 5 man heroics so just continue gearing up and focus more on improving your spec and a good rotation with keybound abilities.

Gear
http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f97/41986-cider-s-easy-540-defense-gear-guide.html
http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f97/42147-vene-s-emblem-guide-pick-orders.html
http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f97/46235-best-slot-warrior-tanking-gear-glance.html

Rotation
http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f14/41426-ideal-warrior-single-target-threat-rotation.html

Pre-Ulduar Spec Info
http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f64/42760-protection-warrior-increase-your-damage.html

Stat Info
http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f97/42653-gearing-threat-wotlk-guide-hit-expertise.html

Key Binds
http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f200/41865-keybinds-you.html