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Ironfoe
07-08-2009, 08:09 AM
I am a recruiting officer for my guild <Die Trying> on Mug'Thol. Due to high turnover and a very high population of raid guilds we find that getting good solid recruits to fit into our raiding guild is very tough. This server has many "raiding" guilds, lots of successful pugs etc for most non hardmode 25s yet there seems to also be lots of mediocre players.

Yet with the need to always be recruiting. Finding top notch players, or people who are serviceable with the potential to be top notch is very tough. We run a lean raid schedule(12 hours per week for 25s, 10 mans on off nights are optional) we dont ask alot of our members other than to show up for raid nights. Yet it seems there is always a constant lack of a "couple more" really good players of "X" class at any given time.

So I do not have expectations of being a world first type of guild. Or even a server first type of guild. We are a young guild formed by a group of RL friends at the release of WotLK. We grew ourselves from 10 people and have currently killed Yogg(13th Horde 19th overall on Mug'Thol to do so) and are working on hardmodes in 25s. Due to attendance we are farther behind that we would like to be but there is no pressure or sense of haste to advance faster. Just in general we would like to consistantly be more successful at raid progression by ensuring we have the pool or properly skilled and geared players so we dont have waisted raid nights.

I am curious as to what type of recruitment standards some of the better guilds out there use. Guilds like Eventide, Fusion etc seem to be consistantly successful and I am intreged at how they do it. How do they overcome turnover or farm status periods etc.

Thanks

Cookie
07-08-2009, 03:52 PM
Motivating people is key, and the loot system as well as guild environment are the biggest things that affect motivation IMO. Unless the person doesn't want to raid., as long as the loot system is perceived to be fair and the rest of the guild liked, the person will show up. But keep in mind that the summer flu is going on, when vacation time comes, and highest rate of guild disbands occur.

Most "proper" raiding guilds are very strict about attendance and do enforce their rules. Top guilds like Fusion usually require 90% attendence or a /gkick. Cider probably has a similar requirement for his guild. In mine, we have to sign out of raids rather than sign in like most casual guilds do- so for example if you take a day off unannounced, you will get -dkp.

There's also the leadership difference. I've been to casual guilds too, and in them, constant wipes usually resulted in very demoralised people, and everyone, especially the leadership went pissy. In my current guild, even though wipes happen more due to hard modes and people get pissy sometimes, wipe recovery is incredibly quick, people talk about what would be done better, the leaders never yell on vent, although -dkp is given to people who screw up a lot. The people are generally quite happy, which I attribute to genuinely liking raiding. In a casual guild, especially a badly managed one, it always felt stressful to me, and I could feel the frustration of the MANY in the raid who simply wanted to down the boss and get the loot and go home, but couldn't.

In my experience, the guilds ranked 200-1000 have the hardest time recruiting. They usually don't attract the best players because those prefer the higher ranked guilds, and most of the apps they do get are usually bad quality, which in turn affects the quality of the raids, and makes existing good members want to leave for better guilds. So it's a vicious cycle.


The only advice I can give you is to post everywhere you can to attract people, boards here, realm forums, mmo-champion, etc. so you can reach a wider range of people.

And also, one thing that makes me move on to the next site when I'm looking for a guild is their application section. I have yet to see a top ranked guild not offer some info about themselves in their recruitment pages, despite how famous they already are, but funnily enough, most lesser-known guilds just have a page listing what they want from people and then application questions. Heh okay... great, now I know you want all the usual things like high attendance, blabla, but who the heck are you? Why should I join you? Most good players know they are good, and are very picky. Simply a list of rules shows the guild is quite stuck up and didn't really pay much thought to their application section, which indicates laziness. Good players do not want to be part of a guild with lazy management who think they are above everyone else.

Just focusing on your own expectations, although very important, is wrong. People who are thinking of applying to your guild have high expectations too, and during the summer, there are definitely more guilds spots than recruits.


Here's some inspiration if you want to make some recruitment posts on forums:
World of Warcraft (en) Forums -> [H] BRETHREN - 5/9 Hardmodes! (http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=9158128434&sid=1)
^ I wouldn't be surprised if this guild gets most of the apps from people who read the forums. They have the best written recruitment post I've seen there.

Guild Information - Eventide (http://www.eventideguild.com/f4/)
^Again, really good and detailed, offers pretty much all you want to know about the guild and lists their requirements too.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Guild:Towel_(Magtheridon_EU) (http://www.wowwiki.com/Guild:Towel_%28Magtheridon_EU%29)
^This one even has put effort into their wiki page, loads of info for people interested in their guild.

Don't do this:
World of Warcraft (en) Forums -> [H] <Elitism> Stormrage EU - 25m 5/9 hard (http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=9941634519&sid=1)
No info at all, it barely even tells you what they want. Most apps would probably close the thread right after it loads.

And keep the recruitment pages updated. I've seen some guilds still using their recruitment page from TBC! Basically listing requirements like full T6 -_-

Ironfoe
07-09-2009, 07:09 AM
Heres our website.

Home : DIE TRYING - US - Mug'thol - World of Warcraft - Guild Launch Guild Hosting (http://die-trying.guildlaunch.com/)

We have two methods for filling out our application to dummy proof it.

We keep posts updated and bumped daily on both wow realm and cross realm recruiting boards, EJ, MMO Champ, and tankspot. We use a writtin application, a ventrillo interview/Q&A and a 2 week trial period. We use epgp for loot, officer yelling is kept very minimal.

This is our post on wow boards.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=16904200983&sid=1 (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=16904200983&sid=1)

If you dont mind let me know what you think. Also thank you very much for those helpful links. I have already looked at a couple of them but thank you for your time.

Penlowe
07-09-2009, 03:11 PM
I'll throw my two cents in :) Overall your front page looks good, nice pictures, clear information on your current progress, standard template that is easy to navigate. A good front page is very important to non-members interest.


changing colors of key pieces, comments below.

Your recruiting info on the first page (good location btw):
"Limited Recruitment is Open
by Ironfoe, 26 days ago

Die Trying is currently looking to recruit a few key classes to fill out and balance our raid force: 2 Warlocks, 1 Hunter, 1 mage

We always review applications of all classes with an open mind. We take pride in our guild and our members and make every effort to recruit the best available players at all times. And?

We prefer to recruit people in the 19+ age range as often as possible as the average age range of most of our members is in the early 20s to early 30s. Our raid times are 7-11 server tues/thurs/sun and if these times are times you CAN NOT make on a regular basis please do not apply. We do not expand our raids beyond those days unless there are extreme circumstances so we only take players who can fit our schedule.

If you have any questions please review our guild information posts in the recruitment forum or ask to speak with Chestibooti or Ironfoe in game.

Thank you and good luck!"

1) this differs from the sidebar list, which is correct? Honestly it's easier to just leave it at "limited", then you don't have to update it every time there is a roster change. ;)

2) That's all? Just the best? Ok, but if I'm the best why do I want to join you? Something of the guilds personality needs to be revealed. If bawdy jokes get told in vent a line about 'tolerant of adult humor' would be appropriate or whatever other personality traits are modus operandi. If you have a special non-raider rank for alts or spouses who don't raid, this is where you should mention it.

3) cut that, it's not information needed on the front page. That is info that should come up in the first interview.

4) No, don't send them away from your site when you just got them there. Have whatever is in the recruitment forums somewhere on your site, a link to another page is fine.

5) Asking people to look for you in game is okay, but the ability to register and post in a public or friends forum or to be able to send a PM is better.
This allows them to post an app or introduction in a relaxed time frame, offers you a peek at their info & personality before speaking to them, and eliminates in game time wasted if they are obviously a 'no'. Besides, without fail that applicant is going to whisper you ten seconds into a pull.

What I've gathered from your page & recruitment information:
- you are serious raiders.
- you are well organized and stick to a schedule.
- you have a loot system in place that works well for your guild.

These are all good things, but at the same time there isn't anything that tells me why I should join you and not somebody else. Maybe some guild-only forum discussions can help you determine what your guilds personality is and express some of that on the front page.
Think of your guild as a person looking for a date. Just saying "I have a good job and I like blondes with big ta-tas" isn't enough, you have to express sympathy for your old dog, passion for collecting D & D figurines or your pride in your dirty sock collection, whatever it is that differentiates you from the other Joes ;)

Hope this helps, I wish you the best of luck.

Ironfoe
07-10-2009, 07:00 AM
Thanks man definately a few tweaks worth making.

greendragonempire
07-10-2009, 07:25 AM
A guildlaunch site just screams 'newbie' or 'casual' guild. I'm willing to bet solid players would shy away from even apping based on that.

Ironfoe
07-10-2009, 08:09 PM
Unfortunately we did not at the time of creation have a member with the skillset or the resources to purchase a full on custom site so we went for functionailty. When the 6 month pay period gets closer we may reconsider.

Bang for the buck I do not personally know of a prefab website host that offers all the tools and overall clean look of guildlaunch. So it was at the point in time it was our best option.

Penlowe
07-10-2009, 10:00 PM
A guildlaunch site just screams 'newbie' or 'casual' guild. I'm willing to bet solid players would shy away from even apping based on that.

I disagree. Certainly what is on the front page could do what you said, but choice of site program manager template thingy? especially one designed for groups of gamers? no.

I've seen serious raiding guilds that had the most generic, plain white, no-frills, php bland site template that had no issues with recruiting. The site doesn't make the guild, but one that is difficult to navigate or so poorly done a casual observer can't get any information out of it, can hurt.

I've seen quite a few scratch built sites that were downright horrid. They were the digital equivalent of the plywood and scrap 2x4 'bike ramp' you built when you were ten, you know, the one that fell apart the first time you tried it resulting in that scar on your knee. Suffice it to say "I built it myself" isn't always an asset.

bludwork
07-11-2009, 01:05 PM
I think every recruitment post should have these things bolded and clear to read.

-About the guild/progress etc
-What is being recruited
-Raid days and times
-Who to contact

Don't make it wordy, try to keep it consice and readable. Most people looking for guilds do not read guild posts, there are way too many of them. A good title to your recruitment post may snag interested parties. Always make sure the class you need the most is in the title.

The best way to recruit is to reply to individuals looking for guilds, but remember everyone else is after these guys including some of the top 300 guilds in the world so try as soon as possible to contact them on their server and talk to them. Keep in mind that cross server recruitment involve transfers, someone is paying 25$ to join your guild so absolutely make sure you can accomodate them before giving the go ahead.