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Behomuul
07-07-2009, 10:41 PM
I started playing WoW relatively recently, and even more recently (last month or so) switched servers to Eredar, where a bunch of my friends are playing. I fell in love with the DK, specced frost, and am having a great time tanking the pre-80 content.

I think I'm on track as far as gear, stats, and professions go. I'm pretty knowledgable about the class, spend a lot of time reading about it on here and other places, stay up to date with the changes, blah blah blah. I'm currently level 77, and am thinking about post-80 content because I didn't want it to sneak up on me.

I looked into raiding guilds on the server. Most say (on their websites) they don't want DKs, some say they might take one Blood DK as DPS, but they'll consider exceptional cases only. I'd like to be an exceptional case, but I doubt once I'm geared for Naxx I'll be able to run it (at least initially) without a guild. So I'm looking for 3 pieces of opinion/advice from you guys:

1) How come guilds that say that they want prot warriors/paladins or feral druids not want DK tanks? Also why don't guilds seem to want DKs in general? (I'm not asking this to start a flamewar, I just want to understand the problem I'm working against).

2) As a newer player (coming in after Wrath, having no BC or Vanilla raid experience, just now hitting 80) is there any advice you can give me about finding a raiding guild?

3) Is the problem role-related? Would I be better off starting out as Melee DPS and then switching into tanking?

Uhhh, sidenotes that I guess are worth mentioning are that I don't want to switch servers/factions, my friends who play on the server and I are all in the same guild and while some of us want to raid, there's just not enough of us to do it anyway and no one really wants to be the raid leader.

Thanks for your time and responses, and sorry if this was posted in the wrong place.

Hadj
07-08-2009, 01:00 AM
1) There are simply too many tanking death knights out there and raids usually need diversity in classes to be successfull. That doesn't come to say death knights are bad tanks but once a guild already has 2-3 of them they don't need to add another just to put the ones already in on the bench. Different encounters favour different tanking styles so most guilds would look into having diversity of tanks rather than the number hence they would look into warrior/paladin/druid to fill the ranks.

2) Try looking for a more or less casual guild as they run with whatever classes they can gather for the fun of it rather than the "we need X(put a random class/spec here) to bust that boss" attitude. They also tend to be more relaxed and fault tolerant communities and you can really get used to raiding with them.

3) If you have fun DPS-ing then stay on DPS-ing but keep in mind you probably won't be able to take on a tanking role/loot until some of the resident tanks goes on extended vacation/retirement.

All in all You could probably look around for a raiding guild while gearing in heroics. People tend to remember good tanks (and bad aswell for that matter) and have them into consideration when the said characters are applying for raiding spots.

keeprock
07-08-2009, 06:50 AM
1) How come guilds that say that they want prot warriors/paladins or feral druids not want DK tanks? Also why don't guilds seem to want DKs in general? (I'm not asking this to start a flamewar, I just want to understand the problem I'm working against).

In general there are a lot of death knights available since plenty of people already have them as an alt. So the major reason a guild wouldn't want a DK tank or otherwise is because they are overpopulated with them already. DKs have generally been overpowered as tanks and dps so any decent raiding guild would be happy to have them for their abilities.



2) As a newer player (coming in after Wrath, having no BC or Vanilla raid experience, just now hitting 80) is there any advice you can give me about finding a raiding guild?

I would suggest finding a raiding time that works for you. Being available is a major part of raiding. If you find a raiding time that works into your schedule you'll make it to more raids. Despite your concerns about not finding a raiding guild, they are pretty easy to find. So make sure the guild provides what your looking for.

You might consider starting in a less hardcore guild to begin with. There are many "raiding" guilds that are not even in Ulduar 10 or 25 regularily. It wouldn't hurt to get your feet wet in the minor leagues to begin with. Or at least with a guild that still does Naxx in addition to Ulduar.



3) Is the problem role-related? Would I be better off starting out as Melee DPS and then switching into tanking?


I would think demand would still be higher for a tank than a melee dps. It would be even better if you could do both so start working on your dps too. I just recently joined a progression guild and with summer here and progression ending, we have to cancel raids because we are short tanks or people. And that is generally the case for all guilds. Raiding guilds are always short people so with a little work on your part to ensure that your a good player, and a little searching, I'm sure you'll find a raiding guild in no time.

Ryoku
07-08-2009, 08:11 AM
Concerning point 1 maybe you have the same problem we have on our server. I used to hate to go in dungeons with DKs because tehy pulled the mobs before me or aggroed random targets making it hell for the entire party/raid. It took me a while to get over this. Furthermore I apparently had the bad luck of meeting DKs with bad attitudes (which didn't help at all on the problem). I am not the only one that had this problem lots of my friends had similar encounters with DKs. I might have to add that I am playing on a relatively small server.

Concluding it just seemed to me that people got tried to get to 55 to be able to play a DK without having any idea of the game. So I would simply say that DKs have /had a bad reputation in addition to too many players having one.

Meldwyn
07-08-2009, 08:23 AM
My guild is a casual raiding guild on a medium server, but we are not accepting any more DK's cause we have a ton of em already. However, we aren't accepting any more Pally's either for the same reason.

I would suggest PUG's to begin with and check out the guilds that other players are in while grouped. Do this for Normal instances, then lvl 80 instances, then on to Heroics... you can even PUG (pick up groups) for Naxx 10 and 25 man once you are properly geared/skilled.

Once you have a feel for the players you are with and like to run with, ask about their guilds. Sometimes, they will even ask you to come over to their guild if they like what they see.

Hope that helps. good luck!

Meldwyn

Ynih_Yllems
07-08-2009, 08:39 AM
Well, I read your post and had some words of wisdom for you, but by the time I registered, you already had three responses with most of what I was gonna say.

But, since I'm registered now, I'll go add on to what has already been said.

1) It's the same with any class/spec. There's only room for 25 people on a raid (or 10 for normals). You want the most diversification in your raid as possible to maximize in buffs, debuffs and specific class talents (AoE dps, ranged dps, melee dps, group heals, MT heals, etc.)

2) There's really 2 ways to accomplish this, unfortunately you may not be able to be with your friends to do it. The first way starts now. Pug instances. Impress people with your tanking abilities and they'll keep an eye out for you later down the road. The other is once you've hit 80 and you've pugged a good number of Heroic instances to gear up, start pugging Naxx. I would suggest pugging 1 or 2 runs as DPS first to see the fights first hand before you go in there to tank. Nobody really notices a mildly undergeared dps doing mediocre damage on a 25 man naxx, but they'll remember you for life if you try to tank a raid undergeared.

3) This one could be true based on biases in the guild. Truth to the matter is all of us tanks have places where we shine a bit more than the other classes. In the beginning, my guild didn't really like DK tanks as we saw them as straight avoidance tanks and as such can be kinda tricky to heal.

All in all, know your class, don't move up to the next level until you're ready for the next level, and don't be a jerk and someone will want you to tank for them I'm sure :)

Theotherone
07-08-2009, 11:06 AM
Don't do the Melee DPS to tank route; if you really want to tank, then it's a commitment of time and gold and emblems. The gold and emblems you spend on gems, enchants, armor, etc to get your DPS to raiding quality is gold and emblems you could have spent on your tank spec (and you'll be sorry you didn't).

Learn your craft by PuGing anyting you can. PuG, PuG and more PuG as you get better, players will remember you and you never know who you'll meet. Try to get into raids with patient people who will teach you (not easy). If I have no guild stuff going on and PuG or put together a PuG for a Naxx 10 or OS10, I have no issue with some new raiders coming along to learn the content. Heck we all had to start somewhere, and I remember the tanks and raid leaders who let me tag along and learn the fights. I try to do the same for other new 80's and have no use for arrogant jerks.

You'll eventually run into a guildie who you'll hit it off with and you'll get an invite. Let it come to you, if you seek it out you'll be disappointed becuase there will be other tanks ahead of you.

As for DK tanks there are some biases still around, but for the most part, I think we've earned our place as one of the better tanking classes (nerf or no nerf); that said, there are still a lot of casual DK tanks that help fuel the bias and that's why you see some reluctance to use Dk's still out there.

squats
07-08-2009, 11:13 AM
I started playing WoW relatively recently, and even more recently (last month or so) switched servers to Eredar, where a bunch of my friends are playing. I fell in love with the DK, specced frost, and am having a great time tanking the pre-80 content.

I think I'm on track as far as gear, stats, and professions go. I'm pretty knowledgable about the class, spend a lot of time reading about it on here and other places, stay up to date with the changes, blah blah blah. I'm currently level 77, and am thinking about post-80 content because I didn't want it to sneak up on me.

I looked into raiding guilds on the server. Most say (on their websites) they don't want DKs, some say they might take one Blood DK as DPS, but they'll consider exceptional cases only. I'd like to be an exceptional case, but I doubt once I'm geared for Naxx I'll be able to run it (at least initially) without a guild. So I'm looking for 3 pieces of opinion/advice from you guys:

1) How come guilds that say that they want prot warriors/paladins or feral druids not want DK tanks? Also why don't guilds seem to want DKs in general? (I'm not asking this to start a flamewar, I just want to understand the problem I'm working against).

2) As a newer player (coming in after Wrath, having no BC or Vanilla raid experience, just now hitting 80) is there any advice you can give me about finding a raiding guild?

3) Is the problem role-related? Would I be better off starting out as Melee DPS and then switching into tanking?

Uhhh, sidenotes that I guess are worth mentioning are that I don't want to switch servers/factions, my friends who play on the server and I are all in the same guild and while some of us want to raid, there's just not enough of us to do it anyway and no one really wants to be the raid leader.

Thanks for your time and responses, and sorry if this was posted in the wrong place.

i cant speed for the tanking issue, however

1. in order to start raiding you will need to start low. dont expect to get into the top raiding guild on your server as soon as you hit 80.

2. know your class. knowing your class in and out will make you a stronger player.

3. luck

4. just like the rest of life, its all about who you know. i wouldnt be where im at if i didnt make the friends that i have along the way, it takes time, dont get discouraged because you get stuck.. its just a game after al :)

5. the most important thing you can do. Never EVER burn bridges, dont leave guilds on their bad side, you never know when they might be able to help you further on down the road.