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Agressive
07-06-2009, 06:31 PM
Hello. Thank you for your time & any help will be greatly appreciated.
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Nagrand&cn=Agressive&gn=Infusi%C3%B6n) My armory may show my DPS set as I donot always log out in prot. gear.
I have tanked heroics & been complimented on my tanking style though I realise I still have much to learn. I have off tanked Naxx 10 with some main tanking there as well.
I have recently joined a raiding guild from a leveling/friend guild. I joined the raiding guild as a DPS warrior but having duel spec. I have also been tanking. I find i have more problems in heroics loosing threat mostly (I think) because the DPS that I am tanking for has some 25 man ulduar gear & I'm in some Naxx 10/heroic gear. I have also been tanking Naxx25 (as 1 of 4 tanks) & have less trouble losing threat as I am usually on the last mob killed so I have a good threat lead. I have taken advice from other tanks on rotations etc & increased my threat/sec. I have recieved some upgraded gear lately & have been regemming/enchanting to maintain 540 defence while increasing my block/parry/dodge stats.
My main problem is that, though I have searched this forum & others, I cannot find what the +hit should be for my toon for tanking raid bosses/heroics.

uglybbtoo
07-06-2009, 07:56 PM
Forget the hit cap you arent crit immune you are only 534 def you need to be 540.

Fix that first please as an urgency.

The problems in heroics is that its a aoe tank always multiple targets your spec and glyph choices are not setup for that sort of tanking. Things like Booming Voice - Spell - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=12835) will not help you but things you have left out like Incite - Spell - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=50687) would.

Probably best to evaluate what you are going to be doing most and review your spec and glyph choices from the forums

Now as for your hit cap question still some discussion whether the cap is 9% or 8%.

9% equals = 296 hit rating, 8% equals = 263 hit rating you wont hit cap in tanking gear.

There is also a expertise soft cap of 26 to stop a boss being able to dodge your attacks.

In order your worries should be

uncrittable > expertise soft cap > hit cap

And overriding all that is survivability which is stacking EH.

Bulk
07-06-2009, 11:31 PM
Just to confirm, the hit cap is 8% or 263 hit.

Agressive
07-07-2009, 05:37 AM
Fixt- equipment manager had a headache & didn't change my neck item over from DPS to Tank set :( - had to delete my "Tank" set from EM & resave it twice to get it to "save" the change :confused:.
He is 540 Def capped, 22.42% dodge , 16.59% parry, 24.08% block. Expertise rating of 17 (+11 expertise). 182 +hit (5.55%) I do have +hit buff food.
I have been trying to increase expertise but I have been concerned about +hit as a miss as a DPS class is very bad for your total damage output & I thought it was the same for tanking- miss means no threat from that swing/GCD.
I would more set up as tanking naxx & beyond- its embarrasing though to be able to hold threat well in naxx but loose it in an heroic but I feel that now I know why as I have also had some groups (Pugs) that will target anything but the "skull" (marked to kill first) & i do know warriors are not as well setup at AoE tanking as a pally or DK.
I tanked for a group the other day & a hunter was shooting (not misdirect) the mob before I could even charge them! & then using volley on a single target:mad:
Thank you for the info & advice I will look at my spec/glyphs.

Kerchunk
07-07-2009, 11:34 AM
you wont hit cap in tanking gear.

Huh?

Hit cap is easily reached in tank gear. In fact, I recently had to re-itemize because I was 26 points over the cap in my set.

Tankasaurus1337
07-07-2009, 01:43 PM
Hit rating is worthless for a tank, imo.
If your having threat problems in raids, really, make a taunt macro that doesn't owrk unless the target isn't attacking you, throw vigilance on your MT or OT and taunt like crazy.
A 0 sec cool down taunt is the warriors best tool. :3

Also, make sure your DPS waits about 5 seconds before attacking.
A lot of DPS don't realize that if they're the first thing to pull threat on a target, the tank's job is THAT much harder.

Kerchunk
07-07-2009, 02:02 PM
Hit rating is worthless for a tank, imo.

This ranks among the dumbest things I've ever seen posted on these forums.


If your having threat problems in raids, really, make a taunt macro that doesn't owrk unless the target isn't attacking you, throw vigilance on your MT or OT and taunt like crazy.

This ranks up there too. Taunt doesn't generate threat, and "taunting like crazy" on bosses is about the worst way to spend your time.

I have to wonder if you have ever tanked anything beyond Heroics if this is your advice.


A 0 sec cool down taunt is the warriors best tool. :3

No, it's not. Taunt is used for emergencies or on bosses that require taunt swapping (Razorscale, Kologarn, Thorim). Taunt is not a "tool" you should be using in regular combat. If you're relying upon it to hold aggro, then you're going to be sorely disappointed the first time you try to tank 25-man Hodir, Thorim, or Vezax.

Not to mention, if Taunt is your primary threat ability, how much DPS are you doing? 700? 900? I realize Warrior DPS isn't on par with other tanks, but it's still DPS.


Also, make sure your DPS waits about 5 seconds before attacking.

Why? My DPS goes all-out as soon as I shield slam because I don't waste GCDs taunting. I generate real threat that keeps the mobs on me from the start.


A lot of DPS don't realize that if they're the first thing to pull threat on a target, the tank's job is THAT much harder.

A lot of DPS are used to running with tanks that know how to do their jobs.

Agressive
07-07-2009, 03:52 PM
OK found it- Hit cap is 262.32 so 8%-262 would probably be aceptable.
Hit - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft (http://www.wowwiki.com/Hit)
scroll down about halfway though all of this is a good read for info.
I am currently using the red sword of courage with mongoose enchant (don't have bladeward on my enchanter)
Red Sword of Courage - Items - WOWDB (http://www.wowdb.com/item.aspx?id=37401)
I also have slayer of the lifeless with titanium weapon chain so i'll change to this & see where all my stats stand.
Slayer of the Lifeless - Items - WOWDB (http://www.wowdb.com/item.aspx?id=39344)

Thanks again for the help.

Bogota
07-07-2009, 04:37 PM
It's not to hard to hit cap in naxx gear. Hit capping and maxing expertise is a great way for a warrior tank to increase threat. Absolutely wonderful guide can be found right here on tankspot. Check it out: http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f97/42653-gearing-threat-wotlk-guide-hit-expertise.html

uglybbtoo
07-07-2009, 11:48 PM
Trying to work out the value of this read the whole well written article but not sold call me an EH survival junkie.

I look at the proposed 10 man geared tank they suggest chardev.org v6 ~ a World of Warcraft character planner (http://www.chardev.org/?template=107897) and I shudder even adding in things like essence of gossomer to the spare trinket slot I am seeing max what 26K HP on a warrior tank and low side block, dodge and parry figures.

The 25 man one looks better but even then I can't resist the temptation to get rid of some of that hit and get stam in.

I am still progressing my gear up and to me survival is much more important than threat .. all I care about is my threat ahead of the raid.

We all know there are two sides to everything I would like feedback from peeps who geared like this and obviously you would have more threat but how do you find survival?

Edit: I should say the closest I had seen to the hit cap was the number one warrior from the top guild on our server The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Khaz%27goroth&n=Cheddar) at 259 he is close but gemming for stam like the rest of us.

Bogota
07-09-2009, 07:58 AM
We don't tank in a vacuum, the idea is to gear for the raid.

By the time my guild cleared Naxxaramus every week, the dps'ers tried to out do each other on every fight. They all asked me to max my threat so they would not be threat capped. I built a gear set entirely for max threat, since my healers were practically sleeping through every fight anyways.

Now we are working our way through Ulduar. We are concentrating on gearing up the guild and learning new bosses. So I gear mostly for survival with just enough threat to stay ahead of the dps pack.

It's all relative.

Griff
07-09-2009, 09:15 AM
Yeah, when your guild is starting out in Naxx, EH is the way to go. You don't have to worry about well-geared dps chasing your tail, instead, your primary concern is gear-challenged healers. As people gear up, that balance starts to change and you need to pay more attention threat. By the time your guild is done with Naxx, you should be able to focus entirely on threat gear for fast clears.

It gets a bit trickier in Ulduar as you need to worry about staying upright and mobile again, but those infernal dps haven't gone away.