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lovecow
06-22-2009, 04:02 AM
my guild has asked me to become a frost tank for 10 mens ive been an unholy tank but if it helps i'll do it :) i need help guys ive googled some specs but i have no idea what wht one would be good ie spec and rotation any help would be appericated



thnx josh

Stephanius
06-22-2009, 05:07 AM
http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f14/40685-death-knight-f-q-questions-answers-right-here.html

Note:
1) All DK trees have they own advantages for tanking.
2) Patch 3.2 may change the current balance a bit.
3) You need the same gear for all specs
(with the possible exception of weapons - if you insist that DW looks cooler and you don't care if it is worse =]).

Flipski
06-22-2009, 09:15 AM
Recently I have switched to Frost Tank in my guild. My gear is almost all atleast 219 or higher. I was blood tank previously and have noticed with frost that the rotation is a little trickier due to Rime and Killing Machine procs. The threat generation scales with the weapon you're using. I'm using Betrayer and pushing on avg about 5k tps on non moving boss fights.

In terms of survivability, there's not many cd's for single target fights, but for aoe fights unbreakable is your best friend, u may want to glyph it for the extra 20% reduction.

All in all, from personal experience MT'ing and OT'ing Ulduar25/10, i have noticed frost is a lot easier to work with in terms of creating and holding threat.

Hopefully this helps ya, gl with tanking!

Jaeden
06-23-2009, 09:47 AM
You may have run into a case where people still think that frost is "the tank tree" which is no longer the case.

Please post your armory. If we see what we are working with, we might be able to just tweak you.

I MT/OT(whatever it takes) for my guild and they seem to be perfectly happy :P

Esch
06-23-2009, 09:57 AM
I actually dislike frost in the current form, as it's an averaged tank between Unholy/Blood. The main advantage of Frost is the notable snap aggro generation and passive mitigation/avoidance abilities, both of which help overall.

I opted for Blood for single target/progression/physical fights, and run Unholy for magic heavy or utility fights. Neither is as flexible as Frost, but the specialization makes a notable difference. I just need to make sure I'm using the right spec on a particular fight :o

Flipski
06-23-2009, 10:39 AM
Depending on ur weapon, frost CAN generate more threat than blood if your rotation is solid. Frost, from what i've noticed MT'ing in 25uld is a lot more viable than blood is.

Frenzy165
06-23-2009, 12:36 PM
I MT for my guild with a frost build Armory. I've been frost basically since i hit 80, so i really have no experience other than frost tanking (I've played all 3 trees as DPS). I find that i like frost for its flexibility. Very good single target threat, decent mitigation through the extended IBF duration. And i think killing machine is just nifty. It could be just that im so used to it and comfortable with the spec, i really dont want to try anything else.

Esch
06-23-2009, 12:54 PM
Depending on ur weapon, frost CAN generate more threat than blood if your rotation is solid. Frost, from what i've noticed MT'ing in 25uld is a lot more viable than blood is.

Generating threat, in my view, is a skill you can develop. I opted to use my tank specs to fit the situation. What I have to deal with in terms of threat is minor compared to the survival I can provide to a fight. It works for me though it means I'm a meager DPSer since I'm 'only' tank spec'ed.

What I'm curious is the logic for lovecow to go frost. Poor threat? mitigation? Imp Icy Talons? (Yes, I irk a few folks in my raid group that I'm not providing them haste :confused:). I suspect that the issue may be more about threat then actual spec.

Molohk
06-23-2009, 01:31 PM
...from what i've noticed MT'ing in 25uld is a lot more viable than blood is.
I haven't seen a single piece of evidence to the fact that blood is any less viable than frost, at all. I've tanked as both frost and raid, and I actually found my survivability to be better as blood. Blood AoE threat was obviously not as powerful as frost, but it was absolutely viable. In my experience, most ppl who think/say blood is not as viable do not have any solid arguments to support their stance.


What I'm curious is the logic for lovecow to go frost. Poor threat? mitigation? Imp Icy Talons? (Yes, I irk a few folks in my raid group that I'm not providing them haste :confused:). I suspect that the issue may be more about threat then actual spec.
I'm also curious, is there a specific utility the OP wants to provide (icy talons, chillbain kiting?). What is it exactly that the OPs guild expects out of Frost? Because if there's a flaw in the OPs current tanking, it's likely not going to be solved by respeccing, perhaps if we knew what the actual problem was we could try to help with it.

Fathom
06-24-2009, 11:55 AM
The basic skeleton of the frost tank build is something like: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0EZhxxhA0I0c0iost0x)

With the caveat that the 3 points in Icy Talons and 5 in Killing Machine aren't mandatory, I'm just using them to get the talent calculator to let me place points deeper in the tree. So with those 8 points, plus the 5 left over you have 13 points of limited flexibility to fill out the rest.

Generally the frost tanks I see put those points into some combination of:
Icy Talons/Imp Icy Talons - General Threat, Raid Utility
Chill of the Grave - General Threat
Killing Machine - General Threat
2h Spec - Single Target Threat
Morbidity - AoE Threat
and more rarely
Acclimation - Magic Mitigation

Generally you're glyphing Frost Strike (too good to pass up), and some combination of Howling Blast, Rune Strike, Unbreakable Armor, Icy Touch, and Obliterate for the last two spots.

On whether you should go frost or not, you'd need to tell us more about why your guild is asking you to swap.

Some of the differences you'll experience are probably going to be:
- More single target threat, but not in a terribly noticeable way. I.e. you'll pull aggro over say an Unholy tank on a single target, but both you and the unholy tank will be miles ahead of any dps.
- Slightly better base tanking survivability with prominent emergency buttons. Frost has feels slightly beefier on avoidance/mitigation for bosses than Unholy does, on the flipside, no more bone shield.
- More snap aggro. Frost threat is big and loud and immediate, you touch stuff and they turn to beat on you and don't go away.
- Limping between aoe threat cds. Fights that require you to pick up several adds often and unpredictable intervals will be harder. No Unholy Blight and (for some builds) no shorter D&D cd means you limp between the cds on HB, D&D, and your blood runes rather than pouring out a constant stream of aoe threat to everything nearby. Can be rough if a mob appears at the wrong second and makes a beeline for a healer.

Bottom line is frost is a good, fun, build that's flexible and a better option for some fights. But for every fight I've been glad I'm a frostie, I can probably think of a fight where I secretly wish I could swap to unholy or blood. So you need to figure out if the things frost is good at are the things your guild needs to shore up, and whether you'll be able to cope with the things that will become harder for the lack of being unholy.

Adonae
06-25-2009, 01:20 PM
Frost has tremendous aoe threat, making use of rime in conjunction with deathchill or killing machine to auto-crit every mob in range makes for massive numbers. My build takes advantage of morbidity for faster death and decay and while some would argue that this is overkill in a frost build, I like it.

Single target threat relies very heavily on your hit value. Adding runestrike to all of your primary attacks, using every killing machine proc for frost strike, getting free howling blasts through your typical obliterate rotation... All of these are great, but they don't tolerate low hit ratings well.

I imagine a few might suggest that rune strike as frost is unnecessary, citing frost strike as a more effective RP dump, however I find that this gives me more flexibility with GCDs.

No significant problems tanking anything in Uld10/25 in current gear and spec. Best of luck.

Frenzy165
06-26-2009, 06:25 AM
Rune Strike is quite necessary.. its more threat per rp. And if yuo have the sigiil off of Razorscale.. you want to RS at every single opportunity

keeprock
06-26-2009, 08:07 AM
I imagine a few might suggest that rune strike as frost is unnecessary, citing frost strike as a more effective RP dump, however I find that this gives me more flexibility with GCDs.

I don't know who would argue Frost Strike is a more effective RP dump at least when related to threat? Rune Strike is half the price, so you can do it twice as often, and it does the same amount or more threat per strike.

Sileo
06-26-2009, 08:33 AM
I too am Frost Spec'd and have been ever since I started the DK. I am MT/OT for all 10-Man content currently focused on Ulduar. Feel free to review my spec. The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Alleria&n=Sileo)