View Full Version : 3.2 and Block Value

06-18-2009, 03:18 PM
With the upcoming changes to block value on gear (and cd/trinkets) does the warrior tank community feel it will be worth trying to stack some again? I had a BV/BR set but found I was in my other sets more often so I banked some pieces for bag space (All you other tanks know what I mean :D). I am not entirely convinced it is going to make that huge of a difference vs. the gear most warriors are using (most of which I myself am using also) except a lot of block value when main tanking. Basically I am hoping that I will not have to pull out and dust off some pieces, regem or reenchant some things to make the stat work (All you other tanks know how that is too :()

please discuss.

Block Value: The amount of bonus block value on all items has been doubled. This does not affect the base block value on shields or block value derived from strength.
On-Use Block Value Items: All items and set bonuses that trigger temporary increases to block value have been modified. Instead of increasing their block value amount by 100% like other items, they have all had their effect durations doubled. This applies to Glyph of Deflection, Gnomeregan Autoblocker, Coren's Lucky Coin, Lavanthor's Talisman, Libram of Obstruction, Tome of the Lightbringer, Libram of the Sacred Shield, the tier 8 paladin Shield of Righteousness bonus, the tier 5 paladin Holy Shield bonus, and the tier 5 warrior Shield Block bonus.
MMO-Champion - World of Warcraft Guides and Raid Strategies (http://www.mmo-champion.com/)
WoW -> Test Realm Patch Notes (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/test-realm-patchnotes.html)

06-18-2009, 06:09 PM
From my shoddy napkin math, and with Glyph of Blocking up, I'll gain something like 750 or so block value. That's in a full BV/BR set though, and considering I lose 3k HP, 2100 armor, 7% avoidance, 120 hit going from my EH set to my Block set, I really don't see it being worth that loss, for Ulduar fights anyway. Both my EH and Threat sets gain no block value from the change.

Then again, maybe I'm just dumb and there's something I've totally overlooked:D

06-18-2009, 06:23 PM
With the upcoming changes to block value on gear (and cd/trinkets) does the warrior tank community feel it will be worth trying to stack some again?

For threat maybe.

06-19-2009, 07:32 AM
Any real progression tanking set for hard mode bosses will not include SBV unless it is quadrupled. My Full SBV set it about 2200, and sacrifices a LOT of other more useful progression tanking stats.

The SBV changes makes doing any dungeon other than Ulduar very trivial with my SBV set. It will help for progression trash, but thats not a huge bonus imo.

In my full progression set, I think I block for about 1200, so I will take some extra SBV "for free" - but this wont affect real raiding on hard modes.

06-19-2009, 06:49 PM
Block set could be good for DW boss like Algalon? 12K hit with 2k blocked is really impressive.

06-21-2009, 10:38 AM
Block set could be good for DW boss like Algalon? 12K hit with 2k blocked is really impressive.

With the lack of block value gear with avoidance, no.

And what swing is hitting you for 12k? His mainhand hits a lot harder than that, and his offhand a bit less than that.

06-23-2009, 07:37 AM
I did some really sloppy napkin math and came up with the following:
(I'm quoting this from a post I made on another forum, also this post is regarding warriors)

For my warrior, 20 defense equals:
0.13% dodge, 0.12% parry, 0.17% block, 0.09% chance to be missed.

Now lets compare that 20 defense to the alternatives in block rating and block value on a mob hitting for 20k, assuming our current stats are 23% block, and 2000 Block value.

Our 20 defense gives us 0.36% avoidance, and 0.17% block. The 0.17% block is the equivilant of 0.0221% damage reduction (2k block value mitigates 13% of a 20k hit through critical block). So we'll add our numbers together and say 20 defense reduces our damage taken by 0.3821%

Block Rating
Now lets look at block rating how much block rating we need to match that damage reduction. We know it takes us 16.39 block rating to gain 1% block. We also know that a blocked attack reduces the damage of that attack by 13%. This means that to gain 1% damage reduction, we need 7.69% block. To gain 0.377% damage reduction we'll need 2.9% block. That is, 47.53 Block rating to get 0.3821% damage reduction (the equivilant damage reduction of 20 defense).

Block Value
We have a 23% chance to block, and we need to find out how much block value it would take to equal the average damage taken reduction of 20 defense (0.3821%). 0.3821% damage taken reduction on our boss that hits for 20k means 76.42 damage. We have a talent increasing our block value by 30%, and a 30% chance to block double the normal amount, meaning that we need ~45.2 Block value to match 20 defense.

Now these numbers are for a boss that hits for 20k, which isn't esspecially hard for an Ulduar boss. If you take a boss that hits for 25k, both block rating and block value lose another 25% of their worth. I think block value might become worth while in 3.2 - atleast until you start getting to hard modes, block rating however will still be a pretty terrible stat.

Now I see a lot of the opposite being posted in this thread- ie: "No they'd need to put on a lot more than just double", could someone explain where my napkin math goes wrong?

06-23-2009, 01:40 PM
Long time reader first time poster here.

The issue as I see it is that right now all the BV gear out there is inferior in other stats, and as such no one uses it, I checked my armory and those of the other tanks(warriors) I know this 100% more BV change will give us (6 people) about 100bv, I personally have 0BV from gear, and it is just that BV from gear that is getting buffed.

When i first saw this on the ptr notes i said to my guild hey look pallys are getting a buff, because since 3.1 BV has been horrible for warriors.

I also agree that with higher SBV totals some of the lower tierd content(even heroics) will be trivialized to large extent by the shielders.

06-24-2009, 01:55 AM
Personally as a war tank i like the block changes. Block rating will still be some what of a useless stat.
But block Value on the other hand will be nice. I know if you grab a pen and paper and calculate on the numbers then it's inferior. But the way i see it is that dodge/parry/miss/Block rating are chances. Let's asume you have 28% dodge, that is a 28% chance so you might end up with 35% during a fight.... But you might allso end up at 20%. You never know since it's random but you know it will be around 20-35%.
With the new block value & the tier 9 4 set bonus (20 sec lower cd on SB) and duration up from 10 to 20 sec. You will have a 50 or 100% up time on block. Especially with the 4 set t9 block becomes a static number reducing all melee dmg by your block value.

Atm my war has 1250 block value in his t8/nax gear. in 3.2 my guess is it will be about 2000. and with t9 i think that will go up.
So if a Mob hits me(in current gear) for 20k (low i know) then with t9 4 set it will be reduced to 18k or dodged/parried and that is a 100% chance.
That is 10% off in this case. Now take a 40k hit it will hit me for 38k max (5%) but i still have a 30% chance to block 4k so it might go down to 36k(10%).

So in my opinion BV is now a great stat to add onto your gear. Since on melee based boses it will reduce dmg 50% of the time (more really cos of BR) and with t9 100%. Dodge/parry are still very!! importent but most t8+ geared will start to feel the deminishing returns, making those less atractive. BV with t9 4 set will offer a flat dmg reduction that has a 30% chance to reduce double the amount.
Question is how much can you afford to sacrifice to up your BV. I think it depends on your stats. Personally in 3.2 i will have 2 sets 1 for melee boses 1 for magic based. On my melee boss gear i would prefer 1k BV over 1k health and as long as im at about 42- 45% parry/dodge i will prefer BV for the static dmg reduction.

I know alot will not agree with me and still think dodge/parry/miss is better. On paper it is for sure. But i allso have a fire mage looking at, how random, hot spreak procs (needs 2 crits in a row) can be even with 60%+ crit's then i must say that parry/dodge is great but still a gamble, BV with t9 is guarantied melee dmg reduction and only gamble is if you reduce twice the dmg or dodge/parry^^.

06-24-2009, 07:32 AM
Atm my war has 1250 block value in his t8/nax gear. in 3.2 my guess is it will be about 2000. and with t9 i think that will go up.
So if a Mob hits me(in current gear) for 20k (low i know) then with t9 4 set it .

You really don't need to guess, but for most people it will only be a 50-150 value increase.

06-24-2009, 10:05 AM
Mond, i just looked at your gear.

You have 200 sbv from gear that isn't from str and isn't from your shield.

That means you'll gain 200 extra sbv.

So no, you won't go from 1250 to 2000, you'll go from 1250 to 1450.

06-24-2009, 01:05 PM
Also the bigger issue is that the change in how damage from bosses comes in has made blocking in general worth less because it blocks so little of the incoming damage unless there are more bosses with high attack speeds like Patchwerk then what good is a 2k block gonna do you on a 40k hit when they only come every 10 seconds also with fewer hits you are less likely to have a block happen in the real environment

06-25-2009, 04:18 AM
The block value change will be basically irrelevant for T8 tanks.
It will trivialize T7 content and heroics though.
So it is good news for some people at least, but doesn't help us poor, gimped T8 shield-tanks. =]

06-25-2009, 08:42 AM
If this is their "fix" to block, it is going to fail. Block Rating will continue to be the bastard tanking stat that nobody wants.

From a warrior's perspective, all this is going to do is increase my threat. And it may entice me to swap a current piece or two for a piece with BV on it, if that piece also has good EH stats. And I would make the swap for the added threat, not the added mitigation from blocking more damage. It will also make farming easier because I may now be capable of 15K+ Shield Slams in my Block/Solo set. :)

If they want to help Block Rating, only thing I can think of is... in addition to this change, they should also make a huge increase to the % of Block you get per Block Rating. Then if we can raise our Block % up to like 50% from gear without sacrificing much, Block Rating might be a worthwhile stat to consider. But right now it's just trash. It's not EH. It's not avoidance. It's random mitigation that scales down the harder you get hit.

06-25-2009, 08:53 AM
Just looking down my list, some Ulduar pieces that suddenly would become much better (because of the added threat for warriors)...

T8 Chest (Hodir)
T8 Legs (Freya)
Greaves of the Stonewarder (Ulduar 25 trash)

06-26-2009, 09:56 PM
It definitely seems there is a lot of devide on this, and all of the answers are greatly
appriciated, being a T8 tank I cannot see dropping set bonuses (as they are) to pick
up more SBV at this point, I have not checked out the T9 stats on ptr yet (other than
acknowledging the HORRID 2 piece bonus) But I cannot see trying to switch out gear
(and subsequently gems and possibly enchants) to encorporate SBV into it again.

06-26-2009, 10:11 PM
I think what will be the deciding factor on how worthwhile it will be is in the new content.... I know currently I will gain more than 50-150. My total boost to block will be 326. This is without a block set.

251 from gear
~75 from talents
326 total gain.

So I will be close to 1700 sbv if the patch came out tomorrow.

06-28-2009, 02:18 PM
I regularly tank in my BVset, with no buffs I'm at around 1700, with trinkets poped and all my procs and buffs i have had 14k shield slams and 9k blocks, when you have a whole set its prety good for trash, heroics, and naxx/voa kind of stuff, though my guild is fail we havent steped foot in ulduar, still wipe in naxx10 bosses you cant tank your way through. if the BV buff is too big im going to have to gear down for some of this content

06-29-2009, 11:51 PM
Having looked over this change repeatedly, and taking a gander at my current gear, and the general amount of block value and rating on gear in the currently available tiers of raiding at 80. I have determined the following:

Block Value: There really isn't a HUGE amount of block value on gear that drops from raid instances. The few peices that there are often sacrifice stamina, expertise and avoidance for a small amount of damage soak. From a mitigation standpoint, this change, while it does help mitigation slightly (If you happen to wear one of these BV peices regularly), does not provide a truly useful amount of mitigation. A warrior's Critical Block talent does make this change slightly more beneficial to Warriors than it does to Paladins in this aspect.

Block Rating: Again a stat that has vanished from the majority of tanking gear at 80, do to Blizzard developers streamlining loot tables while keeping gear that Death Knights can aslo use effectively. Less Block Rating means less blocks, and as such, reduced effectiveness of Block Value. Still a fairly worthless stat in my opinion.

Threat: This is the one area where this change has a small chance to shine, but once again because of the lack of gear that actually HAS Block Value, Shield Slams even won't see much benefit. Though you do need to remember the threat generated from Damage Shield, but again even that isn't much.

TL;DR: While this change does help slightly, it does not truly address the current issues with block. Our block chance will see no change, while our damage soak on the few attacks that we do block will increase, along with our threat, but once again, only in the minor sense. This change really doesn't solve any problems. Not for warriors, and it does paladins even less justice.