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Insahnity
06-17-2009, 01:11 PM
I'm looking for some quick ways to calculate at what point you are threat-capping DPS. There are a lot of resources around (especially Satrina for warriors here on TankSpot), but nothing concise. If theres a better thread please feel free to point it out.

Here's my first crack at it.

I started with Template:Threat modifier table - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft (http://www.wowwiki.com/Template:Threat_modifier_table).

For the purposes of this discussion, healer threat is not an issue, as the flat 0.5x multiplier squashes any sort of threat problems, unless something like a pat or spawn appears behind the healer and really far from tank. I see this as a healer on a few fights, case in point last night on Ignis as an add NOMed on my holy priest arse until we group hugged our tanks on the next attempt.

If you glean the wowwiki article, it sound like most tanks are set to a 2.07x (ish) DPS to TPS multiplier (according to the article paladins are the only ones that don't explicitly do so but I will blindly assume it averages out).

Most DPS classes have talented reductions ranging from .7 to .9 multiplier for DPS-> TPS. Most notably in the aggro pulling deparment are mages/warlocks who get at best a .9 mutiplier, then relying on Ice Barrier and soul shatter. Hunters get no such relief, but they can MD and FD. Of other note are DPS warriors with a .8 multiplier.

Then you account for the threat switch multipliers, 1.3 for ranged and 1.1 for melee and situational fights where you need to be tightly packed.

Put it together.

My Paladin currently does 1600-1800 single target dps in nax 25 using a mix of nax gear, lets use a conservative 1600 DPS figure. Multiply that by 2.07 gives me about 3300 TPS. Omen usually shows me doing 4-5 TPS when I get into my 969 groove, so I'm assuming this is a gross oversimplification.

Now take your trigger-happy mage/warlock doing 4500 DPS, assuming reasonable skill and nax gear. Multiply that by .9 gives you 4050 TPS. Fortunately, they are pegging away at 25+ yards, so they get the 1.3 bonus before the mob tears off for them, effectively a TPS of about 3100.

Now take a melee heavy pug of melee DPS (arms warriors bladestorming, Blood DKs, Ret Paladins Divine Storming, and so on). They are also pulling about 4200 DPS, modified by (conservatively) .8, going to 3350 TPS. But here I get only a 1.1 cushion on range, 3050 effective TPS. Better, but not 250 TPS is not much, and I have less buffer time before the mob starts wailing at the DPS (I don't have time for the mob to run after the ranged, the tasty meal is already in range).

Hunters, I have no recourse. If you are experienced enough to pull 6-7k DPS (even if some is your pets DPS), you must have discovered your MD/FD buttons. I can do nothing more if you turn out to be a huntard, except to taunt the angry mob off your corpse. Rogues to a lesser degree can TotT, although the baked in .7 multiplier is usually enough.

Fortunately that's enough for now, but if, as a tank, my game is off, lag, I am forced to react to something unexpected, etc, or if RNG favors the crit strings, I am in for the butcher's bill and a long trek back in a few minutes.

Now threat is way more complicated than this, Satrina's http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f200/39775-wow-3-0-threat-values.html is a case point for warriors, RS for DKs, Avenging shield for paladins, and so on which is why my Omen shows a huge lead over my TPS happy DPS. However, I'm seeing issues in some PuGs picking up the 4th VoA 25 Emalon adds if the DPS fails to DPS Emalon himself and blows their load on an add (I know, not my fault, but still). And soon I hope to be geared enough to move to Ulduar, and I know I will have to shed some threat for survivability, so I want to monitor where I am, in a quick, back of the head way.

Anybody care to comment on this from a quick numerical calculation perspective?

Durundal
06-17-2009, 08:35 PM
Hey, my Warrior is currently in an odd mix of Naxx 25/Ulduar Heroic and Normal gear, and I can honestly say that it does not get any better. Fortunately, almost every boss in Ulduar gives you breaks in moments where the DPS can do very little, and you can still attack the boss. There are only two bosses where threat is at all needed, and that is on Hodir and Razor. In Hodir, your priority is normally survival thanks to FB, so your DPS just has to slow down, and Razorscale hits like a wimp so you can go all out on threat gear. If you take a quick peek at the mechanics of Ulduar bosses, you will see that almost all of them require the DPS to do more than just hit the boss.

On Ignis you have ranged having to shatter, and MDPS having to predict your movement. This normally leads to a small DPS drop for them, but because you are tanking, you should always know where the boss is going to be. On XT you have adds and bombs. DPS has to take care of the adds, and run away when they get bombed. Kolo has his arms, IC has 3 bosses, Aur has adds, Freya does not get touched for the first half by anyone but the tank, on Thorim people have to dodge the lightning. General can be tricky, but I normally find is it not to much of an issue. Mimiron is not really all that tankable for most of it (p1 people have to avoid the mines, p3 you have to add tank and maybe put a warrior on spell reflect tanking, p4 you just tank the bottom.) So while threat can be a huge issue in the very start of some bosses, Blizzard has been kind enough to give us these moments where only a tank should be hitting the boss, and even 10 seconds of that can give you an enormous threat lead. It also sounds like you are a Naxx level tank who is pugging with some DPS that might be around Ulduar level? That can quickly cause a problem, but its just a case of grouping with over geared DPS (similar to a tank in blues doing heroics with DPS that are at Naxx level)