View Full Version : Stoicism, Seals Of The Pure and Reckoning

06-16-2009, 08:58 AM
So I've been looking at other pally tank specs and noticed a few things different from mine, namely that I dont have any points in Seals Of The Pure but have all 3 points in Stoicism and 3/5 in Reckoning.

Now, Reckoning is a personal choice of mine so that stays as is each time i spec without me even realizing i have put them there. Stoicism though I came to find out was very useful to me in certain occassions (e.g. H UP's King Ymiron fight) as it lets me get back in the fight faster. Why dont more tanks take this talent? That also goes for other tanks too... DKs, warriors and druids all have a similar talent in their trees. Is not being dazed less time then your group/raid not worth the points?

Next, the Seals Of The Pure talent. How useful is it? Mind you, i had always tanked with Seal Of Wisdom til i saw my fellow guildies with Seal Of Corruption on (with Divine Plea restoring mana) so i figured that made sense. But i came accross an issue... i ran out of mana fast on trash unless i was able to speed pull to keep Divine Plea active (which many healers cant do in heroics apparently... and at times DPS too) Is there a happy medium? Or just whatever works for the individual?

Last thing... well... check my specs out. Im open for criticism on either prot or ret specs.
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Saurfang&cn=Tubarao)

06-16-2009, 09:15 AM
Theres nothing wrong with reckoning. I would rather put things in other places is all. First off, how much of your damage/threat is coming from reckoning v. how much is coming from other talents. Melee makes up a relatively small percentage of our threat/damage, that the gain from reckoning is just overshadowed by other talents.

By adding just one point into improved judgments alone, you could increase your ability to output damage and threat. There is a natural cooldown selection that occurs with pallies. (9 sec c/d followed by a 6 sec C/D followed by a 9 sec c/d- that you can use to adopt or more uniform tanking rotation)

There are certain core that you want to include in your build. (Quote goes to Maintankadin- not me Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZA0xA0uMusIufdxo) Their spec guide is a really good place to start)

06-16-2009, 10:11 AM
Personally I had stoicism in my build for a while, since 1 month or so i took it out and I do not see any difference between having it and not having it so in my personal opinion it is a waste of talent points.
Even for pvping it doesn't really make a big difference.

Best regards

06-16-2009, 03:09 PM
Do you raid or just mainly do heorics? Most pallys you are looking at probably have a "raid build". All the below comments deal with raiding.

Stoicism is considered a PVP talent. I'm guessing when you say dazed you mean stunned since you cannot be dazed at 540 def. The threat of being stunned is not a big deal in a raid.

Reckoning is bad for 2 reasons. Most people dislike it because they are afraid that the boss will parry haste them. Another reason to not like it is because the dmg is so paltry. Get recount and look at your damage breakdown. 1, 2, 5 points whatever in reckoning is a waste.

I would say stick to wisdom in heroics (save vengeance for raids). You should not be having threat issues and as your gear gets better and better you are getting less and less mana from SA.

06-18-2009, 04:04 PM
Thanks for the replies so far. A bit after i posted this i learned something new about pallly tanking. My pally is my 3rd tank so i was on the same mentality of my druid and DK tanks...what i learned was that pallies DONT need as much expertise as my other tanks due to that their abilities are spells rather physical abilities (minus regular melee of course)

So... especially after reading what "Survey_Says" stated... i do realize Reckoning is pretty useless if not just bad for pallies (although i wish it were a few tiers higher... might be nice for ret =D )

I believe i will also remove stoicism from my build because i am intending to raid lots as a tank on this toon. Extra points form removing Stoicism and Reckoning will go to Imp Judgements and Seals of the Pure. Ill probably still use Seal of Wisdom most heroics/raid trash though if i feel im not keeping enough mana (usually something due to slow groups that i cant speed pull with)

Again thanks for the info and feel free to keep posting any opinions you have of this thread.

06-19-2009, 04:15 AM
Seals of the Pure is almost a vestigial legacy from 3.0. Use those points in Crusade and Conviction instead as they will produce more threat.