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patrynsaint
06-13-2009, 02:45 PM
So I am having a debate with a friend over the defense cap (540) for raids. I have read somewhere that it is possible to become uncrittable without reaching the defense cap by having resilience.

Wanted to know if this is possible, thanks.

Karatheya
06-13-2009, 04:00 PM
540 is not a cap. It's a minimum to be uncrittable under normal circumstances. A cap is the point at which adding more does absolutely nothing. Adding defense to go over 540 skill boosts your chance to dodge, parry and block and be missed.

Both defense rating and resilience rating contribute to reduce your chance to be crit. You can get uncrittable vs level 83 mobs using resilience. Resilience costs less, so technically you can get uncrittable via resilience using a smaller item budget. But having done so, you'd have laughably low avoidance, because resilience does not increase your chance to dodge, parry or block and be missed. You couldn't be crit under normal circumstances, but you'd take many more normal hits to the face, dying very quickly to any raid boss.

It is acceptable to backfill a very small percentage chance to be crit with resilience (say the equivalent of the gap from 537 to 540), but in almost every case, whatever you use to get that resilience, be it gear, elixirs, gems, flasks or enchants there is a better option that gives you defence rating.

wowwiki has the calculations to work out exactly how much of each rating you need.

patrynsaint
06-14-2009, 08:55 AM
Thank you very much Kara. I knew it wasn't smart to stack resilience but instead as a filler for reaching 540.

You also just won me some money =]

patrynsaint
06-19-2009, 08:23 PM
OK so this thread is back because the person whom I had the bet with apparently doesn't believe me at all and is changing the parameters of the bet. He now says its impossible to be a viable tank using any sort of resilience at all even though Kara stated it is acceptable to use resilience to fill a small amount of missing defense rating.

Basically he's being a little girl who doesn't want to part with 5 dollars and is saying that we were talking about our tank friend who had around 527 defense. I was not even aware that we were talking about him and his need for resilience so I do believe I won.

Thoughts?

Arklay
06-19-2009, 09:10 PM
Oh god, please go and ask your mom 5 bucks.

Cookie
06-19-2009, 09:35 PM
OK so this thread is back because the person whom I had the bet with apparently doesn't believe me at all and is changing the parameters of the bet. He now says its impossible to be a viable tank using any sort of resilience at all even though Kara stated it is acceptable to use resilience to fill a small amount of missing defense rating.

Basically he's being a little girl who doesn't want to part with 5 dollars and is saying that we were talking about our tank friend who had around 527 defense. I was not even aware that we were talking about him and his need for resilience so I do believe I won.

Thoughts?
Even though resilence does contribute to being crit immune in raids, and a previous poster said that it's acceptable to use resilence as a filler, I wouldn't invite any tank with resilence fillers to a group personally. Considering there's plently of defence gear and enchants to reach 530/540, someone who uses resilence as a filler just screams "lazy" to me.

I think your friend is right in saying that anyone interested in being a viable tank wouldn't use resilence fillers. In Naxx/heriocs, you could get away with it, but in places like Ulduar, don't think so. Defence doesn't just reduce crit chance, it also contributes to overall avoidance. If you're using resilence, it also means you're using pvp gear, which equals to using gear pieces with no block/dodge/parry or perhaps even less stam than someone using proper tanking gear.

Karatheya
06-20-2009, 12:43 AM
a previous poster said that it's acceptable to use resilence as a filler, I wouldn't invite any tank with resilence fillers to a group personally. Considering there's plently of defence gear and enchants to reach 530/540, someone who uses resilence as a filler just screams "lazy" to me.

If you read what I said, I said that there is always a better option that gives you defense.

Think of a situation where you have a new piece of gear, and you already sent your buddy mats for a scroll to enchant that gear with defense, but he hasn't logged on by raid start. Without the chant, you're at 537. Should you waste another set of mats, or just chug a flask of lesser resilience until you get the scroll?

Resilience should never be part of your "gear plan". It's just a way to compensate for short periods of time when something has happened to throw your gear plan off.

Cookie
06-20-2009, 09:10 AM
If you read what I said, I said that there is always a better option that gives you defense.

Think of a situation where you have a new piece of gear, and you already sent your buddy mats for a scroll to enchant that gear with defense, but he hasn't logged on by raid start. Without the chant, you're at 537. Should you waste another set of mats, or just chug a flask of lesser resilience until you get the scroll?

Resilience should never be part of your "gear plan". It's just a way to compensate for short periods of time when something has happened to throw your gear plan off.
Yes, I did read what you wrote, don't worry. I didn't miss the part where you said that there's always better options than resilence- If you'd bothered to read my post on the other hand, you'd see that I actually agreed with that part.

If I were at 537, I would either use a defence elixir, buy a scroll off ah or just go with 537. If someone came to a raid of mine with a resilence flask, I'd think the person was incredibly lazy.

Coming to a raid with a resilence flask because it's cheaper than buying an enchant from the ah, because the person didn't plan properly is very insulting to the members who come prepared to the raid and get their gems/enchants ahead of time.

jerald
12-24-2009, 10:38 AM
There is one scenario where using resilience to get to crit cap is acceptable...when your a rogue tank :eek:.

As of late a lot of the badge gear is itemized more for combat then mutilate, so I find myself with nothing to spend my emblems of triumph/conquest, etc on. So I built a tank set. Now granted, tanking as a rogue in anything other then a controlled group is suicide, but it is still a fun concept. I would never ever do it in a raid. It is amusing though to pug a 5 man and when someone asks "whose the tank" I say me. lol. They laugh but then they see me with 30k+ HP and start wondering if I am serious.