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typhius
06-13-2009, 01:04 AM
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Suramar&n=Typhius)

may be in ret spec/gear

I am dying to these adds with 2 healers on me. Question is - do I not have the proper avoidance, am I not getting enough heals, or is the dps just not killing KT fast enough?

Olinske
06-13-2009, 06:30 AM
Im not sure if its just warrior tanks.. But your block is way to low... you should have all ur Dodge, Parry, Block, at or around 18%.. Dodge and Block r the main avoidance stats... Make sure ur tanking the adds away from the party and that your healers r good healers.. Throw bubble walls up to help you tank...

Strength Gems?

Im not sure with pallys.. but you need more of a Hit Rating then 89 or what ever you have... Even if it is the best gear that drops for that slot. does not mean that it will work with your set.

typhius
06-13-2009, 10:14 AM
block is like, what 58% with holy shield?

str Increases damage blocked with shields

my lack of hit isn't the reason i'm dying. Threat is a non-issue.

I think I remember once the blood drain debuff was at 11 stacks. I was only getting hit for 3-4k per each add(normal difficulty)

Aaesop
06-14-2009, 12:26 AM
str Increases damage blocked with shields
True, but there's more than just bv!

I'd roll a defense/stamina gem in that helm over a parry/stam. It'll help your lacking block rating, and a bit of wiggle room for defense is always nice.

I'd rock an accuracy enchant on the weapon as well. It'd help a great deal.

I'd take out the strength gem in those legs. try a stam/hit gem, exp/stam for a second. Help your threat, and help your survivability via cutting down your chance to be parried.
At some point also consider the Glyph of divine plea, along guarded by the light it's going to cause Divine Plea to be up fulltime as long as your hitting something, it also provides 3% damage reduction.
Your raw stats aside from block rating are alright for naxx25.
Also it might be an oversight, as it is for many people. Make sure your staying out of the fun holes on the ground. Everyone says "im never in them" but everyone makes brainfarts, or a slip of mind. Better safe than sorry :)

Nakago
06-14-2009, 03:27 AM
As being a pally tank myself, and taking 1 glance as ur armoury without lookin at gears i see your problem,
BLOCK,
mate 18% block is really bad for a tankadin, and u say its 58% with holyshield, ill tell u myself that impossible as holy shield only gives an extra 30%,
looking at all ur over stuff like dodge and parry and taking into account the 30% extra block from holy shield u have 83% total avoidance, and thats just way too low for a paladin, also it wudnt suprise me if u had trouble keepin agro, due to pallies building threat from holy damage, and ur block being low.
so wot ill give my advise on mate is stack as MUCH block as u possibly can.
my paladin currenlty has 96% total avoidance with holy shield active, 23% block without holyshield. u shud try aim for that.
well thats my big rant over :) but main point to it all it more block mate. pally tanks need it for everything. building threat and surving more with holyshield active.
goodluck :)

Xuthal
06-14-2009, 04:53 AM
I too would put +24 Stam in every available gem slot.

Are you staying in range of your healers? With your stats, you shouldn't be having trouble, unless you're solo tanking ALL of the adds in heroic. They just don't hit that hard, as I recall.

Xu

headknocker
06-14-2009, 12:43 PM
Hi,

From your gear, I'm assuming we're talking 25man. I'm also further assuming that you have 2 OT's and you have 2 adds on each, i.e. you're only dealing with 2 adds. If you're trying to do all 4, don't until you've geared up a bit. Some general comments:
- You need 1 point in improved judgement. You don't 2 points in spiritual attunement, just 1, so you can get your point there. SotP will produce less threat than Conviction/Crusade so you're better off spending those points there, but it won't help with the 2 adds killing you.
- Rotate your judgements between the 2 adds you have (tab target). That way both will get the 20% melee speed reduction most of the time.
- judge light
- replace glyph of HotR with divine plea (3% damage reduction)
- Spend some badges and get kyzoc's boots.
- Switch any strength/hit gems with dodge/stam or stam gems. Your hit is low, but if you aren't having threat problems, you can up your avoidance.

typhius
06-15-2009, 12:01 AM
73.95% block with redoubt + holy shield
23.06% dodge
18.87% parry
115.88% avoidance?

I realize the proc isn't always up but it is up frequently.
I also realize I have only one piece of gear with block rating on it
(block rating is what increases my % blocked) assumption
block value increases amount blocked, again this is what I am assuming

alright, seriously the guy that told me where to get pally tankin gear was like go to MaxDPS.com - World of Warcraft Gear Rankings - News (http://www.maxdps.com) and look at prot warrior.

really great info thanks, I realized a long time ago that there was a large time investment tanking. Really enjoyable.

I have to admit I was having a difficult time tanking the naxx 10 adds...
it was probably a dps/healing combo making them difficult to tank. the blood tap was stacking very high from dps not killing KT enough.
In the end I kicked the druid healer and added a pally dps, replenish is such an amazing buff the healers mana was near full and I did not die after that.

Nakago
06-15-2009, 04:55 AM
woops i forgot to count redoubt into my total avoidance :P

headknocker
06-15-2009, 08:08 AM
Given the discussion about redoubt, its worth clearing up some terminology here. Avoidance is miss+parry+dodge. Block is mitigation. So given the above stats, you probably have about 53% avoidance (assuming that your defense will probably provide around an 11% miss rate). Avoidance comes before block on the hit table and thus with holy shield up you will be about 96% towards block capped (102.4%). Buff's and redoubt will probably put you at/over the 102.4% much of the time, but redoubt isn't generally part of the 'block capped' conversation. Also remember block rating isn't the same a block. Anything over 102.4% rating is wasted. If you want to mitigate (rather than avoid) more trash damage, add block either directly on gear, or through strength.

typhius
06-20-2009, 02:14 AM
So I've obtained a few pieces of gear, what do you guys think now?

Peca
06-20-2009, 02:52 AM
Yes nice gear ,but m8 538 def !!

edit : or maybe armory is broken or something :S

headknocker
06-20-2009, 05:24 AM
Much better (assuming you fix the 538 with a flask or something). You still need a point in improved judgement to use the 9696 rotation. At this point if you're not sleeping through KT adds on 10man, you have a healer problem.

Kelstet
06-20-2009, 07:18 AM
Alright, the things that stick out first and need the obvious questions answered. Were you tanking them in ret with prot gear? Because that would be a major issue. Secondly drop essence of gossamer and put on Lavanthors because as the add tank on KT the extra block helps a ton. As someone stated previous your actual avoidance looks a bit low without crunching the numbers 5% base miss + defense + dodge + parry + block + 30% for holy shield. Additionally you should really have the 1 point into imp judgements to work the 969 rotation properly. You are not at the defense minimum for raids (540) that may be due to you being in ret I couldn't say. But if you aren't there when spec'd prot you should really pick up some more defense oriented gems.

That's about all I can say off the top of my head. I've tanked KT while holding the adds both on 10 and 25 only thing I could think of is your avoidance/mitigation just isn't high enough.

Hope that helps

Kel

p.s. Your hit is also super super low... may want to work on that.

Kelstet
06-20-2009, 07:23 AM
One more thing a good site to look at is Maintankadin there is so much info there it's unreal.

Kel

typhius
06-20-2009, 04:26 PM
yeah i have a bunch of defense elixir I use.

I have slayer of the lifeless for some extra defense ready if i run out of elixir.

also I did log off in ret : / sorry sometimes when I switch from dps to tank I forget to change spec and only change gear (hate that)

So I have tanked grobbulus twice successfully as ret heh but that's about it.