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Zangestu
06-12-2009, 11:52 PM
Being a prot tank since BC, i have yet to notice an issue with threat up until Ulduar. In BC, i never lost threat ever. I never had any pesky hunter, warlock etc. right on my tail on threat. My idea was that if they pulled it was their fault.

Now being the 2nd tank in a hardcore 10 and 25 raiding guild ive begun to have issues with threat.

I've been unable to generate consistenly high amounts of threat. I've been around 5.5 to 6k, spiking upwards of 7-8k on 25 man raids, where I tend to do fine. However in 10 man raids i fall down to 4.5-5k due to lack of buffs. However, the DPS still keeps up their 5.5-6k threat and without vigilance ive lost aggro on occasions.

The guild i'm in doesn't believe that the DPS should ever have to slow down, that the tank should just generate more aggro. They have been spoiled by our MT, who is a pally that generates about 8k-9k. Even though he horribly outgears me does it really make that much difference?

Is there anything I can do to improve my gear or my threat?

MT Paladin: The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Aegwynn&n=Mastuh)

OT Warrior (Me): The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Aegwynn&n=Zangestu)

any help, theory would be appreciated

Dhalphir
06-12-2009, 11:55 PM
Your guild needs to stop being complete idiots.

basically. Also, they need to use threat dumps. There are very few classes that do not have a threat drop of some sort, and they need to use it whenever its needed. those that don't have threat drops (warriors, shamans) need to be getting priority on Hand of Salvation.

however, since you're asking, one reason you might be having threat troubles is that your expertise is pretty low, try to keep around 25-26, more is always better.

Zangestu
06-13-2009, 12:00 AM
Does that 9 or so expertise make that much of a difference?

Dubzil
06-13-2009, 12:05 AM
I concur you want 26 exp, its 2:1 better than hit up to 26. This will help you quite a bit.

Also Fights like Hodir/Vezax there is a very big use for Tricks of the Trade and Misidrect. I had to remind hunters/rogues throughout the fight for a while, and also make sure people call out for salv. Your raid helping your threat will be a huge factor in ulduar, just get on them about it til they learn they need to continue the entire fight and its not too bad.

Dubzil
06-13-2009, 12:06 AM
Does that 9 or so expertise make that much of a difference?


2:1 to hit, removes parries and dodges until 26

Zangestu
06-13-2009, 12:07 AM
Is there any standard rotations? or is it more of the hit what shiny lights up?

vonholck
06-13-2009, 12:21 AM
Is there any standard rotations? or is it more of the hit what shiny lights up?

well due to the randomness of our procs there is no real rotation, only a prio list, which would be: SS>revenge>deva along with as many heroic strikes as your rage alows you to (on bosses it is almost always possible to just spam HS like a madman).

In adition i would change the shield enchant to the titanium plating, and remember to use shield block as much as possible for bigger Shield slams.

Oh, and about the expertice, try to get the mark of norganon trinket (malygos 25), that should be quite a significant threat boost.

Dhalphir
06-13-2009, 12:24 AM
well due to the randomness of our procs there is no real rotation, only a prio list, which would be: SS>revenge>deva along with as many heroic strikes as your rage alows you to (on bosses it is almost always possible to just spam HS like a madman).

In adition i would change the shield enchant to the titanium plating, and remember to use shield block as much as possible for bigger Shield slams.

Oh, and about the expertice, try to get the mark of norganon trinket (malygos 25), that should be quite a significant threat boost.

not worth sacrificing a survivability trinket for that crappy piece of crap

get Malygos25 legs and wear them instead of your t7.5 legs...warrior t7.5 legs are terrible

vonholck
06-13-2009, 12:36 AM
not worth sacrificing a survivability trinket for that crappy piece of crap

In alot of cases no, but if threat is his sole problem then it is.

Zangestu
06-13-2009, 12:42 AM
Question for Dhal:

Do you ever notice suffering of threat in a 10 man raid, and what threat off the top of your head do you know that you throw down in a raid?

Dhalphir
06-13-2009, 01:11 AM
around 6-7k in a 25man, 5-6k in a 10man.
Big buffs that you really notice if they're not there - Horn of Winter/Strength of Earth, Blessing of Kings, Rampage/Leader of the Pack

crazyprsn
06-13-2009, 07:41 AM
...remember to use shield block as much as possible for bigger Shield slams.

I agree. In fact, shield block is so important to threat building, that you might want to make a simple macro to combine it with Shield Slam (SS) (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=47488), so that any time Shield Block (SB) (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=2565) is off its cooldown, you pop it when you hit SS. Some say that SB should be used as an emergency button, but the truth of the matter (that I've found anyway) is that the cooldown is way too short to waste the ability to wait for a later time. The buff that it gives to your block rating consequentially increases your SS damage by a HUGE amount (and every warrior tank out there knows that SS is our biggest [burst] threat generator).

Having SB up at every moment possible is also useful in tanking trash. For one, the added block ALWAYS helps your mitigation, plus it increases the amount of damage that your Damage Shield (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=58874) ability (which is a MUST talent for any protection warrior, in my opinion), thus adding to the passive AoE threat generated to the mobs on you.

I may be preaching to the choir here, but I hope this post might be useful for any budding tanks that stumble on this thread.

PS - If any tank not using Glyph of Blocking (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43425), they're hurting themselves very much!

shez
06-13-2009, 09:26 AM
I agree. In fact, shield block is so important to threat building, that you might want to make a simple macro to combine it with Shield Slam (SS) (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=47488), so that any time Shield Block (SB) (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=2565) is off its cooldown, you pop it when you hit SS. Some say that SB should be used as an emergency button, but the truth of the matter (that I've found anyway) is that the cooldown is way too short to waste the ability to wait for a later time. The buff that it gives to your block rating consequentially increases your SS damage by a HUGE amount (and every warrior tank out there knows that SS is our biggest [burst] threat generator).

Having SB up at every moment possible is also useful in tanking trash. For one, the added block ALWAYS helps your mitigation, plus it increases the amount of damage that your Damage Shield (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=58874) ability (which is a MUST talent for any protection warrior, in my opinion), thus adding to the passive AoE threat generated to the mobs on you.

I may be preaching to the choir here, but I hope this post might be useful for any budding tanks that stumble on this thread.

PS - If any tank not using Glyph of Blocking (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43425), they're hurting themselves very much!

i prefer saving shield block and not to use it every time its up esp with t8 4pc bonus.

I'm not sure how much threat damage shield does for single target boss tanking, 20% of bv means around 254 damage per block/hit, esp on a slow hitting boss. Though i have it in my spec i don't really rate it that high (maybe i'm wrong?), don't have it on my 2nd tank spec(for soloing bloodlord :/)

I just swapped glyph of blocking for glyph of vigilance, 5% of a 10k tps dps is around 500 tps at peak, 10% of sbv is 120 (need some theorycrafting here), and i did more tps in general.

I do about 6k sustained tps sometimes spiking 10k, on a stataionary tank and spank with non threat gear, only problem i had was hodir and general where i use my avoidance gear and shit threat spec.

BUt i think warrior is falling behind in threat compare to pallies..for warrior the better gear you get the more rage starve you are and less threat..if you don't gear for threat...

it also depends on your group buff, my tps goes up a lot with an enh shaman/feral druid