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View Full Version : Why am I suddenly Squishy?



Cyranus
06-10-2009, 07:24 AM
I've been tanking for my guild for quite some time now, and we've made some decent progress into Ulduar by now(only to Freya). Anyhow I hadn't had any complaints from healers in general until Monday night when we went to get something done in Ulduar as we had been busy all week. Anyhow long story short my healers are complaining all of a sudden that I am squishy now...usually this is not the case. Here is my armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Vek%27nilash&n=Cyranus). I've gotten a few upgrades in ulduar as you can see. We are almost exclusively 10 man as you can probably tell from my gear, so recommending 25 man upgrades really isn't going to happen for me. I hope someone else has an idea, because I'm stumped.

Stephanius
06-10-2009, 07:38 AM
I see nothing wrong with your gear or spec.

Was the group composition lacking any crucial buffs, i.g. fortitude, kings or mark of the wild? What about boss -hit, demo shout etc?
Did you miss an encounter specific ability, debuff on you or buff on the boss?

Of course, there is always the possiblity that it is a healing issue which the healers proactively blame on you. =]

veneretio
06-10-2009, 07:40 AM
Did the groups differ at all between the raids you weren't squishy and the raids you were? (even list any dpsers that may be different)

What are your new upgrades?

What specific part of Ulduar were they complaining about?

hbombs
06-10-2009, 07:43 AM
do you sometimes let a DK tank...?

Cyranus
06-10-2009, 07:47 AM
Well I'm the only pally so no kings unless I do it myself(I usually opt for sanc because I still end up mana starved quite often). Have Fort and Paw, usually no demo shout...we don't stack raids we just take whoever has the gear and the time on that night. The 2 main fights that I had squishy complaints on were Iron Council and Auriyia(sp?). I tank Stormcaller and Runemaster in the back for IC and solo tank Auriyia. We've done both of them this way every week so far and not had complaints before.

My upgrades are my current belt, and neck up from the Emblem ones, and my bracers are upgraded from the Minion Bracer's. Stoneguard was upgraded from Slayer of the Lifeless or Red Sword of Courage(if I needed more defense).

Group comp does change some every week. The only major difference I can think of is that we usually run 2 disc priests and a resto shaman for heals but had 1 disc priest and 1 holy priest and 1 shaman last night for IC(holy priest on me in back) and for Auriyia I had a Resto Shaman, Tree and Holy Priestt.

No, the only tanks we have atm that can go to Ulduar and not get slaughtered are myself and a bear tank.

hbombs
06-10-2009, 07:51 AM
I think its your healers. a few missing buffs in a random raid could also be the problem. I wouldn't worry about it to much.

Cyranus
06-10-2009, 07:56 AM
Well, now that I think about it our dpser's were also not the normal group last night either. Mostly the same classes but the #'s weren't as high, suppose that could also have something to do with it =/

veneretio
06-10-2009, 09:51 AM
Group comp does change some every week. The only major difference I can think of is that we usually run 2 disc priests
And... there's the whole issue. You've went from 2 disc priests which are amazing MT healers to 1 or 0 disc priests. Especially with 2 disc priests, their bubbles are going to put up such huge absorption shields that it's going to seem like you're invincible.

So basically, nothing you can do. Healers are just feeling the lack of disc priests. That's just how it goes. Better MT heals or better Party heals. It's all about balance.

Molohk
06-10-2009, 09:59 AM
I'm with Vene. Disc priests make a huge difference in your total taken damage. As usual, we could offer much more accurate advice if you had some logs to offer.

Cyranus
06-10-2009, 11:23 AM
We don't run logs because we don't think it's necessary to be honest. Like I said, we are very casual and usually don't have the same group. Our heals and tanks are all very good and we rarely have issues(dps sometimes is low but for Ulduar we've rarely had anyone below 3.5k until last night). As you said I guess it could just be the lack of disc priests healing me. Ones on vacation and the other was dealing with the Fusion Punches, and then went shadow for Auriyia.

Tonylicious
06-10-2009, 11:50 AM
Additional problems could have been someone breaking Shield of Runes on Runemaster w/o it being removed (dispel/spellsteal/etc.) which increases his damage by 50%.

Auriaya can sometimes do tank gibs with parry hasting/feral defender pouncing or fear turning your character from her along with the usual Sentries eating your face.

I'd recommend at least running Recount and if you experience these "squishy" situations again simply check what killed you, if damage came fast/abnormally hard/rng said fu(see: Feral Defender pounce stun). You can see the killing sequence by going to the Deaths tab and clicking your name. Most recent deaths will be at the top.

As has already been covered though having a Disc priest is very powerful for tank healing, though not mandatory and shouldn't have been as huge a difference as being implied given that you should have still gotten the armor buff from the Shaman or Holy Priest.

Cyranus
06-10-2009, 01:21 PM
My priest was dispelling the shields. I do run recount, but unless I'm having problems I see no reason to check it. To me the numbers last night seemed fairly standard. As the others have said I think not having a disc priest healing me may have been the biggest issue...I usually have a disc priest on me for Iron council and Auriyia. She did gib me once just because I took the full screech myself due to the fear.

We'll go back to auriyia tonight and I'll see how it goes. Can always have at least one disc priest, he just likes to be shadow so I don't make him heal unless I have to(he's bored with healing, been doing it for 4 years)

veneretio
06-11-2009, 10:24 AM
My priest was dispelling the shields. I do run recount, but unless I'm having problems I see no reason to check it. To me the numbers last night seemed fairly standard. As the others have said I think not having a disc priest healing me may have been the biggest issue...I usually have a disc priest on me for Iron council and Auriyia. She did gib me once just because I took the full screech myself due to the fear.

We'll go back to auriyia tonight and I'll see how it goes. Can always have at least one disc priest, he just likes to be shadow so I don't make him heal unless I have to(he's bored with healing, been doing it for 4 years)
Ya, it's not that you need a disc priest, but if you aren't using one your healers need to understand that you're just not going to be as safe as you would otherwise.

That said, you really should track combat logs even if it's for your own personal curiousity. You don't have to let them rule your raid, just use them for some information. They'll answer more questions than our guesses will here no matter how much experience some of us may have.

Cyranus
06-11-2009, 02:11 PM
I realize that I don't necessarily NEED a disc priest, and none of our failures were due to my squishiness(4 people there had never stepped foot in Ulduar before) I was just trying to figure out WHY my healers were suddenly calling me squishy when usually they call me boring. In a good way :)

Malavar
06-12-2009, 08:05 AM
I concur. Not having a disc priest would most definitely make you "squishy" from other healer's perspectives. In effect, disc priests proactive healing abilities make other healer jobs less reactionary. So without the disc priest, the healer experience for them was probably much more intensive, erratic, and reactionary. Nothing they probably couldn't handled but they just needed to get used to the experience of it that's all.

Same applies to any class changes within a raid. For example, running consistently with a hunter's misdirects makes things pretty easy on initial pulls. Without the hunter though, you can still achieve complicated pulls but it just takes a little bit more effort that's all.