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View Full Version : Need some Blood Tank opinions.



thegodsownu
06-09-2009, 03:30 PM
So i've recently made the jump from a traditional frost tank spec, to blood. I've been doing a lot of theory crafting, and respeccing etc. and this is what i've come up with as the best blood tank spec. I opt to not use glyph of disease, and instead apply IT/PS. Not sure if it's been tested to out TPS using the glyph or not, but it seems like it does. Now any constructive criticism is greatly appreciated.

56/5/10 -- through much research and experimenting my preferred spec.
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0EGqI0IobMfssx0xZ0gh:dGimMV)


Here is my armory link as well.
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Shadowmoon&n=Zaresh)

Thanks in advance.

Vanthus
06-09-2009, 03:43 PM
So i've recently made the jump from a traditional frost tank spec, to blood. I've been doing a lot of theory crafting, and respeccing etc. and this is what i've come up with as the best blood tank spec. I opt to not use glyph of disease, and instead apply IT/PS. Not sure if it's been tested to out TPS using the glyph or not, but it seems like it does. Now any constructive criticism is greatly appreciated.

56/5/10 -- through much research and experimenting my preferred spec.
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0EGqI0IobMfssx0xZ0gh:dGimMV)


Here is my armory link as well.
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Shadowmoon&n=Zaresh)

Thanks in advance.

It looks like a good spec to me. I find that It/PS still give me more DPS than Glyph of Disease just from having a cleaner rotation.
I also found that just having 1 point in Epidemic was enough to keep the diseases up for 2 full rotations...having an extra 3 seconds was pretty much unused if I were to keep a clean and repetitive rotation.

You have a lot of survival talents which is a good thing.
You could probably safely change those into threat using Subversion or Necrosis is you found that was necessary. You are pretty close to the build I have except I maximized DPS at the cost of survival.

thegodsownu
06-09-2009, 03:49 PM
Yea generally 1point in epidemic is enough to last, but i wouldn't want to take one point out and go with 1/3 subversion, possibly could pick up hysteria for one of the points in epidemic. What do you think about that instead?

Vanthus
06-09-2009, 04:06 PM
Yea generally 1point in epidemic is enough to last, but i wouldn't want to take one point out and go with 1/3 subversion, possibly could pick up hysteria for one of the points in epidemic. What do you think about that instead?

Whats wrong with subversion? nothing wrong with having more crit % on your most used strike. HS is 50% of my rotation. I personally prefer not to use cooldowns...maybe i'm just lazy

thegodsownu
06-09-2009, 04:17 PM
nothing is wrong with subversion, just not sure if it's wise to take a point from epidemic, and just have 1/3 subversion, rather then something like maybe hysteria.

Feanorr
06-09-2009, 05:30 PM
You can check the great post made by Satorii about his blood spec; I dont say it's the only spec viable but it's a great one AND he explain why that and not that ^^

However, here is my advice on your spec:
- Improved icy touch: unless you got someone else to reduce boss attack speed, it's a very good survival talent (maybe even a "must have")
- Scent of blood: the only RP use in blood is DC and a weak DC (without the boost of a unholy spec, DC is pretty weak); for example you will get more DPS/TPS with subversion than Scent of blood, no doubt.
- Sudden doom: same thing; DC is pretty weak as blood; ok those one are free, but again, you will get more TPS with subversion or Bloody vengeance
- improved Blood presence isnt really great honestly, the heal it provide is too small to make a difference imo.

So here is the spec with my suggestion:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#jcEMqI0Icb0bssxhxZ0gh:dGimMV)

I the last point for mproved icy touch from Mark of blood (some like it, personnally I dont see it powerfull enough to save me when thing go bad).


About the glyphs, VB's and RS's ones are a must have imo. The third is a personnal choice: disease for refreshing disease more easily (me too I feel that it break my cycle so I dont use it), Death strike for more single aoe threat or DnD for more AOE threat.

wazdaa
06-10-2009, 12:50 AM
i think you can tweak that spec a bit to get better results. judging from your gear i'm assuming you're progressing through ulduar. and from the fact you didn't pick up imp Icy touch i'm assuming you made this build to mt and have acces to an improved speed reduction from outside (ot, dps dk,...)

mark of blood is not optimal. you have relatif a lot of avoidance decreasing the chance of proccing the hp, the bosses in ulduar hit relatif slow again decreasing the amount of time it can proc and lastly the bosses hit like a truck making that 4% neglectable. only situation you could really justify it is if you find yourself ot'ing most of the time, but then the lack of imp icy touch makes no sense.

impBP assuming you do 2k dps that's 80hps which you can't even decide when it will land so a lot of it will be overhealing aswell so it isn't very usefull.

put those 3 points in bloody vengeance. it's a very nice boost to your threat.

3/3 in SoB is overkilling it with 2/3 you'll have enough rp to RS whenever it procs, have rp to use def cd's and occasionally shoot of a death coil on free gcd's.

put that 1 point in hysteria, it's a nice boost to one of your melee dmg dealers. it just might be the thing that helps you beat the enrage timer.

subversion gives slightly better dps and therefor tps then sudden doom on top of that it makes it more likely bloody vengeance stays up and goes up fast at the start. so switch those points around

abomination's might in a raid(especially in 25man) is only 2% str since you most like have dps bring the buff anyway. here it depends on your own experience if you have threat issues i'd put those 2 points in sudden doom else i'd keep em here for the (albight very little) parry it adds.

making it look like this Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

(http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#jcErqI0Icbobssx0xZ0gh:dGimMV)edit:
with 5kap, 20%crit and Inevitable Defeat - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40406)
(using formulas i presented here (http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f14/50564-blood-tank-hs-heavy-ds-heavy-rotation.html#post229889) and same restrictions aswell)
3/3 sudden doom adds 433.1threat to hs or 144.4threat/talent point
3/3 subversion adds 487.9threat or 162.6threat/talent point + the faster application of bloody vengeance.

edit2:
using same values as above. it would seem that morbidity is less valuable then sudden doom.
3/3 sudden doom (without morbidity) adds 376.6threat to hs
3/3 morbidity adds 376.6threat (yes it's the same value) to death coil (!! since you use a lot more hs's in your rotation then you use death coils)
meaning that if you plan on soley using the spec for mt'ing and don't have need for a decreased cd on D&D sudden doom>morbidity which would make the build look like Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#jcErqI0Icbofssx0xZ0g:dGimMV) and swapping points from abomination's might to morbidity if you still have threat issues.

(http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#jcErqI0Icbobssx0xZ0gh:dGimMV)

Vlad
06-10-2009, 04:42 AM
Your threat will suffer pretty badly without subversion, remember you'll be spamming HS alot to keep BB etc up.
I'd be surprised if you needed 3/3 SoB.

Vanthus
06-10-2009, 06:05 AM
However, here is my advice on your spec:
- Scent of blood: the only RP use in blood is DC and a weak DC (without the boost of a unholy spec, DC is pretty weak); for example you will get more DPS/TPS with subversion than Scent of blood, no doubt.



Rune Strike, Rune Strike, Rune Strike :)

(You mention that you glyph for it even).

thegodsownu
06-10-2009, 11:58 AM
thanks for the advice wazdaa, i tweaked my spec to what you suggested in your 2nd edit. It def. seems a little more solid MT spec now. Only other question i have is what single target rotation do you find works best for you? currently i'm using IT-PS-HS-HS-DS-dump//DS-HS-HS-HS-HS-dump, using rune strike every time it's available by having it macroed to all my rune abilities.

Vanthus
06-10-2009, 12:46 PM
thanks for the advice wazdaa, i tweaked my spec to what you suggested in your 2nd edit. It def. seems a little more solid MT spec now. Only other question i have is what single target rotation do you find works best for you? currently i'm using IT-PS-HS-HS-DS-dump//DS-HS-HS-HS-HS-dump, using rune strike every time it's available by having it macroed to all my rune abilities.

That's the exact rotation I have started to use, and I with it I have my highest DPS ever. In 25 VOA today I was pulling about 2200-2300 DPS on nothing but single targets.

I use IT-PS-HS-HS-DS-DC-HoW-DS-HS-HS-HS-HS
Normally that uses the global cooldowns perfectly. If I have real high (max) runic power then I will do a second DC instead of HoW. If I find myself in this situation too much I will just take a point out of scent of blood.

Feanorr
06-10-2009, 06:20 PM
Rune Strike, Rune Strike, Rune Strike :)

(You mention that you glyph for it even).

Yes and I spam it every time it's up (it's macroed into all my skill), but I dont need SoB for that; in fact my RP is more than often at 100, and I dont really have time to dump it with DC.

GravityDK
06-11-2009, 01:39 PM
My blood spec (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Turalyon&n=Gravity) is good if you want another template. I MT in Ulduar 10. I don't have threat problems so have made choices to bias survival, and I've still got a few raid-buff talents.

I find 1/2 Abom Might is enough, btw.

Satorri
06-11-2009, 05:01 PM
But but but but Grav! The 1% strength from that second point!! =)

I Blood tank, and MT Uld25 (not meant to one-up Grav, ma lovely). I have a lengthy post about my spec and why I chose what I did, and I think I included info about the talents I didn't take and their values (just because someone doesn't take it doesn't mean it's not worth taking). Thank you Fea for the bump. =)

GravityDK
06-11-2009, 10:34 PM
I love you too Satorri! :)
ps. the Satorri's uber-thread is here (http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f14/48134-satorri-s-3-1-build-shop.html).

Antemortem
06-12-2009, 05:07 PM
So i've recently made the jump from a traditional frost tank spec, to blood. I've been doing a lot of theory crafting, and respeccing etc. and this is what i've come up with as the best blood tank spec. I opt to not use glyph of disease, and instead apply IT/PS. Not sure if it's been tested to out TPS using the glyph or not, but it seems like it does. Now any constructive criticism is greatly appreciated.

56/5/10 -- through much research and experimenting my preferred spec.
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0EGqI0IobMfssx0xZ0gh:dGimMV)


Here is my armory link as well.
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Shadowmoon&n=Zaresh)

Thanks in advance.

You should pick up IIT, it's some where around 5% damage mitigation (apologies if that percent is off).

Although Morbidity and Sudden Doom do complement each other well, assuming your tanking bosses as blood, I would pick up Necrosis.

I HIGHLY recommend picking up Subversion, especially with how well it goes with MoM.

I didn't pick up Imp Rune Tap simply because I don't use RT enough to make full use of the 3 points. Depending on how often you use RT you may want to reconsider putting the points elsewhere.

MoB really only shines against fast hitting bosses. (which Ulduar doesn't have)

I really like Bloody Vengeance because its a nice TPS increase.

Imp Blood Pres creates a steady stream of small heals, but I just didn't find it to be worth the points.

About glyph of disease, I use it because it allows for one button to refresh both diseases. Which in the long run does create more TPS.

Dhalphir
06-12-2009, 07:59 PM
Imp IT is wasted if you have a prot warrior, prot paladin, feral druid, or frost DPS DK.

Esch
06-12-2009, 09:29 PM
Imp IT is wasted if you have a prot warrior, prot paladin, feral druid, or frost DPS DK.

Read: Any other tanking class. :rolleyes:

Seriously, IIT is worth putting in any tank spec as it ensures that debuff, plus you can 'quickly' spread it across trash pulls to ease damage slightly. As often as tanks are spreading out with Ulduar's multi mob boss fights, it's wiser to spend the 3 points and not expect someone else to 'be there'.

Satorri
06-13-2009, 05:09 AM
Dhalphir I'd only agree with you on one of those: Frost Dps DK assuming they have Imp IT.

1.) Protadins can only apply the buff to one target.
2.) Bears can only apply it to 1(-3) targets at a time and have to hit the target twice to stack the effect, it works but it is not super easy.
3.) Prot Warriors can apply it to anyone at pointblank range but only every 6 seconds (can be glyphed to larger range).

Death Knights can apply this to every target in 10(15 with a minor glyph) yards, and can refresh or add it at any time. Warriors have very nearly as easy a time applying it, but Bears and Protadins do not, and the latter of those two can only have it on one target at a time.

Despite the fact that Imp Tclap is too good not to take anyway, the crucial difference we've played on (I tank with a prot warrior) is actually that on single targets he can do more threat without including Tclap in rotation, so he just relies on my FF when he knows I'm there giving it.

Also, as Esch wisely pointed out, there are enough things that have tanks split up and spread out that makes it fully worthwhile to be able to ensure coverage.

thegodsownu
06-15-2009, 12:03 PM
Thanks for all the help everybody, i've done some tweaking and theorycrafting, and i've decided that the spec wazdaa suggested (59/5/7) is probobly the most viable MT blood spec available to me, thanks wazdaa for your input.

Edgewalker
06-18-2009, 09:27 AM
I am a huge fan of Morbidity over Imp. Rune Tap, there is a nice Synergy between Glyphed DC, Sudden Doom, and Morbidity, and in addition the -15 Seconds to DnD as a blood spec has a lot of practical application in Ulduar.

Broly
06-18-2009, 11:08 AM
I mt Ulduar 25 as blood, personally I would drop sudden doom, morbidity, imp blood presence, mark of blood and 1 pt in Scent, doing so you gain 10 points that aren't all that great for main tanking.

Pick up 3/3 bloody vengeance, 3/3 subversion, 1 hysteria, 3/3 spell deflection is a must for any blood dk, the first time you deflect a fusion punch you'll be happy you had it.

The threat you gain from bv, sub and hysteria will far outweigh the death coil damage you lose from sudden doom and morbidity, also imp mark of blood isn't very good in it's current form.

If your threat is far above anyone else's give hysteria to your top physical dps they'll thank you for it.

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Malorne&n=Broly) <-If I'm not my blood tanking spec I apologize sometimes I like to go frost for fun.