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vaaleron
06-08-2009, 12:31 PM
I have been trying to raise my DPS for a while now in Heroics , I think I have fairly OK gear and I have read everything I can on TS , yet I still get remarks that my DPS is low.

Any ideas ? Getting desperate !!

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Vashj&n=Vaaleron)

Tarigar
06-08-2009, 12:45 PM
What is your dps that is "too low". I hate wow armory. It shows your ArP at 0 which is bs when I see ArP all over the place on your gear. Your spec looks fine. What rotation are you using?

vaaleron
06-08-2009, 12:53 PM
DPS seems to vary between 1.0 and 1.5K DPS. Due to the GCD locks I'm using slam to try and gain rage then hitting revenge , MS , overpower as they become available. I get rage starved quite easily and I feel like I'm missing something fundamental...

Muffin Man
06-08-2009, 01:00 PM
Um, what? Revenge and overpower can't even be used in the same stance. Are you asking for dps advice as arms or tanking? And what's your rotation again. Start with your opening 5 moves.

I'm assuming you mean execute instead of revenge, but still need some more information to really help you.

Tarigar
06-08-2009, 01:00 PM
Revenge? Are you stance dancing? With your expertise and you hit you shouldn't be rage starved.

vaaleron
06-08-2009, 01:06 PM
Sorry , quite right , execute not revenge.

Yes , rage starved. I never get to a situation where I have too much.

I've always had the problem but can't understand why.

I need advice on Arms DPS , sorry its been a long day. I'm not stance dancing.

Thanks

Muffin Man
06-08-2009, 01:08 PM
Ok, so take a deep breath and take us though your rotation =).

One thing that does jump out is you say you are 'using slam to try and gain rage'.

Don't slam at all if you don't have rage. Slam costs 15 rage *and* pauses your swing timer which further slows your rage gain.

vaaleron
06-08-2009, 01:10 PM
No set rotation , I was under the impression that rotations were not correct for Arms , based on what I've read on TS.

I usually use something like charge > Slam > Slam > execute > MS or Slam
depending on available rage.

Muffin Man
06-08-2009, 01:13 PM
You should really read: http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f177/48619-quick-n-dirty-arms-guide.html

I think it'll help you out a lot. Rend/OP are incredibly efficient damage/rage wise. Slam is incredibly inefficient for the reasons I stated above. It sort of looks like you're using a TBC slam rotation, which is long out of date.

Wukki
06-08-2009, 01:14 PM
Where to Start...

Head: Enchanted Tear, really?
Weapon: Mongoose? How about 85 Attack Power
Gloves: 35 Attack Power Please.

Gems in General: Why are you loading up on expertise? You should be using strength gems, because a dodge means a free overpower.

Lastly, arms follows a priority order.
1. Keep Rend up
2. Sudden Death Proc
3. MS on Cooldown
4. Taste for Blood Proc
5. Slam when you have 50+ Rage
6. Heroic Strike when 70+ Rage

Now go gem and enchant properly, and go whack on the boss training dummy for a while.

Tarigar
06-08-2009, 01:14 PM
First off what is your rotation. I normally don't slam until I am high up on rage. I prioritize rend, then I go MS, TfB procs, SD procs, and then slam if I have excess rage(70 Plus). I never use HS except on Hodir. I am generally not rage starved unless I am spamming slam. I hold out for procs. Also I use the rend major glyph instead of ss. Go practice on a dummy because your dps is way low for some reason... Like way to low for your gear. You should be at least hitting 2k.

What i did is I sat in front of a test dummy and worked on my rotation through three bladestorm's and for the fourth one to be up. Since bladestorm swings your dps so much I always try to get it balanced to get an accurate read on my rotation.

vaaleron
06-08-2009, 01:35 PM
Wukki

Expertise/Hit I was under the impression I should be hit/exp capped and then gem for strength

Head remove the enchanted tear and replace with a +16 str gem ?

Gloves > oops forgot about that

Mongoose > 85 attack power ? I'm querying because everything I've seen on TS seems to recommend mongoose.

vaaleron
06-08-2009, 01:36 PM
Muffin / Tarigar

Thanks , that gives me a basis to work on. I think I may have been picking up the wrong threads on TS and using TBC tactics.... doh ..

Wukki
06-08-2009, 01:39 PM
Expertise really isn't important. You will get it from gear/talents naturally.

Hit you go for the special cap, which is 8%, and you stop. The rest you will get from gear / debuffs on the mob.

Mongoose is terrible for Arms Warriors because it is a proc. A static 85 attack power, or even berserking, will outdo mongoose in every instance.

Dubzil
06-08-2009, 01:41 PM
Expertise is important, for the same reason hit is important, a missed hit is 0 dps. You want to hit every swing then go for upping your dps with str/ArP. You will get 2 talents points for expertise (weapon mastery) which makes you only need 18 expertise to be soft capped, once you're at 18 with this talent or 26 without, then you can worry about str.

vaaleron
06-08-2009, 01:45 PM
Dubzil

I'm aware of the WM/SOA stuff and currently exp capped at 26 expertise.

Wukki seems to have a differing view, but all his other advice makes sense to me so I'm not sure now wether to increase STR at the expense of expertise or not.

More info needed

Dubzil
06-08-2009, 01:47 PM
You want to stay expertise soft capped, there was a discussion last week about dropping expertise for ArP since a dodge will grant you an Overpower, there are a lot of if's and very low RNG chance that it will increase DPS, to maximize be soft capped exp and hit capped.

I suggest reading through the Quick N Ditry Arms guide, it has a lot of useful information, you may have to read it several times for it to sink in and see why it works like it does. There are some opinions on there that are later shot down by math, so make sure to read the entire thread.

vaaleron
06-08-2009, 01:55 PM
Thanks all , I'll be on the training dummy for a while.

I think I can see what I need to do to get my DPS to a better level.

Thanks for taking the time to advise me.

Cheers

Vaal

Tarigar
06-08-2009, 02:21 PM
Vaal. One thing you can always drop Imp MS and pick up weapon mastery.

That's what i did to make up some expertise I don't need.

I am actually trying to dump some of my excess expertise.

vaaleron
06-08-2009, 05:10 PM
Tarigar , yes thats a thought.

Anyone got any thoughts on that approach , I will stat the MS damage output with/without Imp MS.

Thinking about it I presume Imp MS and Glyph of MS stack ? ?

Or is it better to drop Imp Slam , since I'm not going to (theoretically) be using it anywhere near as much..

Dammit , my head hurts now

chinster
06-28-2009, 02:29 AM
I currently use the following rotation

Charge > Rend > MS > Overpower > Slam > Slam
Do this 3 times, and switch out the last slam with a renewal of Rend

So, my rotation is like this:

MS > Overpower > Slam > Slam
MS > Overpower > Slam > Slam
MS > Overpower > Slam > Rend
MS > Overpower > Slam > Slam
MS > Overpower > Slam > Slam
MS > Overpower > Slam > Rend

With my current gear, I have

1238 Str
3465 ap
33% crit
25% ArP
Hit and exp capped

Using Betrayer of Humanity with berserking enchant.

DPS on dummy = roughly 3k

Durandro
06-28-2009, 02:37 AM
DPS against a dummy isn't always giving accurate raid dps figures.

Also, were you raid buffed? That'll raise your dps substantially.

Only thing I can think to suggest is putting Mortal Strike into your rotation somewhere, and making sure you use Execute whenever it procs from Sudden Death.