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View Full Version : Tuskarrs over Greater Fortitude... why?



chubtohd
06-05-2009, 03:33 PM
I've had this question since Boar's speed...and I still don't understand why the common thinking is that Tuskarr's is superior by taking the 7 stamina loss....especially in progression fights.

As a warrior tank, I don't see the benefit of 8% run speed increase in any tanking situation. With the availability of intervene, or the fact that most boss casts that require you to run out (Mimiron) is long enough, you shouldn't need it.

What confuses me about the enchant is that I see a lot of tanks forgoing the socket bonus on certain gear in favor of more stamina (which I do as well) ... so why pass on the extra 7 from the Greater Fortitude for boots enchant then?

I'd like to hear the rest of the communities thoughts on why they use Tuskarr's and to see if I'm missing something.

Tatt
06-05-2009, 03:36 PM
Their is no gem (other than a really bad meta) that allows you to increase run speed. Also no socket bonus or piece of non engineering related gear that does this. I agree that their should be enough time to get out of the fire, so to speak. But any advantage you can get seems like it should be taken advantage of. Compare it to the whole avoidance vs. EH conversation. Will 70-100 health determine whether you live or die in a fight? MOST of the time no. Will being able to get that much farther out of the fire possibly save your life? Probably.

Pesko
06-05-2009, 03:38 PM
I use Forti, though think Tuskarr' is a bit more sexy due to the movement speed.
Don't know how much it increase but, think you'll find the reason in the movement speed! :)

veneretio
06-05-2009, 03:39 PM
It comes down to preference. I believe that running a bit faster is worth the small stamina loss, not every does. Some days, running faster is going to save you. Some days, 7 more stamina is going to save you. Either way some days, you're dead.

VerticalEvent
06-06-2009, 08:38 AM
The advantage of Tsukarrs over the Greater Fortitude come from being able to position the boss faster. In the case of Ignis, where most strategies involve moving the boss around the room, let's you have Ignis repositioned faster.

Another boss fight would be Mimiron (Phase 1 and 4), after his nova attack, he comes after the tank. Being able to run back in faster let's him remain more centered in the room. Or kiting the General.

chubtohd
06-07-2009, 10:40 AM
@ veneretio - lol

@ vertical -- hunter's MD work well on Ignis and Charge works well getting back to Mimiron ... both are much faster than 8% increase :P

If preference is the presiding factor (with preference given to situational encounters), then I'll always go with the 'stamina is king mantra'. Thanks for the input guys

VerticalEvent
06-07-2009, 01:00 PM
My comment about Ignis wasn't threat related, but the fact that, during the encounter, you are positioning him every couple of seconds and the increase in run speed could be helpful in getting him positioned faster, allowing Melee DPS to bomb Ignis sooner.

Hengist
06-07-2009, 01:40 PM
Slightly faster movement speed can compensate some lagspike, some slightly slower reaction. Less time spent moving means more dps and more tps. Not always you move far enough for charge/intercept/intervene to be useful, lots of movement is just slight sidestepping and adjusting. I do not think you can prove with math that all of those advantages outweight 7 stamina, it would be a hard thing to do, so its all down to your judgement in the end. Its not a big advantage by any means, but 7 stamina is not a big amount neither.

Tankette
06-08-2009, 09:04 AM
I haven't used Tuskarrs in a long time. Thinking about the fights in Ulduar though, I may just switch and pick up the extra run speed and see how I like using it again. I'll still be over 34k unbuffed so its not like the 7 stam is going to hurt much.

Satrina
06-08-2009, 09:13 AM
It's a personal preference, but that runspeed will be useful to you more often than 7 stamina will save you.

Tarigar
06-08-2009, 09:31 AM
My comment about Ignis wasn't threat related, but the fact that, during the encounter, you are positioning him every couple of seconds and the increase in run speed could be helpful in getting him positioned faster, allowing Melee DPS to bomb Ignis sooner.

I don't see how his position affects the dps's ability to nuke the boss. The encounter is simple and they just nuke the crap out of him/her except during flame jets.

And there seems to be more than enough time to reposition Ignis before the next scorch.

Trual
06-08-2009, 10:04 AM
I can't think of any situation where I'd say, "Gosh darn, I wish I had an extra 7 stamina there because that totally would have saved me" but there are definitely two fights that come to mind where runspeed becomes useful:

(/puts on grandpa hat) Back in my day, we kited Anub, and having the +runspeed enchant really helped keep us alive. (/takes off grandpa hat)

And if you use the kite strat on Vezax, having a little bit of extra speed to get going in front of him is definitely useful.

Tankette
06-08-2009, 10:10 AM
The run speed on Ignis would be a bigger benefit in getting out of the scorch area quicker and thus taking less fire damage. You might get one or two less melee hits too since you might be just out of his range more often when you are repositioning him after he throws down a scorch.

Tarigar
06-08-2009, 10:11 AM
The run speed on Ignis would be a bigger benefit in getting out of the scorch area quicker and thus taking less fire damage. You might get one or two less melee hits too since you might be just out of his range more often when you are repositioning him after he throws down a scorch.

You can run out of scorch before you even get hit with fire dmg. You don't have to wait for it to appear.

Kerg
06-08-2009, 04:07 PM
Most fights involve some kind of movement. In pretty much any fight that does, Tuskarr's is superior. Stamina can be made up with better gear. But no gear improvements will help your reaction time or run speed, except the Tuskarr's enchant.

Razorscale: Moving to the next drill to get mobs... before they spawn (can't charge). Pulling Sentinel out of group quickly. Getting to downed boss quicker to put up Sunders.

Ignis: Pulling Molten Constructs to water. Moving out of Scorch.

XT: Stationary fight for MT. Run speed will not help here.

Assembly: Getting out of runes. Getting away from Overload. Running from Lightning Tendrils.

Kologarn: Stationary fight for MT. Run speed will not help here.

Auriaya: Kiting boss away from Void Zone.

Hodir: Moving away from blue runes.

Thorim: Moving left or right in hallway. Moving down hallway in general. Getting to boss to initiate Phase 2. Running to pick up mobs in Arena.

Freya: Fairly stationary for MT. Offtank helps with picking up mobs.

Mimiron: Running out of Shock Blast. Picking up and positioning mobs.

Etc.

So there are some fights where it won't be helpful, but in the vast majority of fights, it far outweighs a measely +7 Stamina, IMO.

In fact, I think not only is it the best boot enchant for tanks, but it's maybe the best boot enchant for any class. +8% chance of moving out of harm's way quicker far outweighs, what +0.2% more stamina? Or a tiny bit more dps or mp5 or whatever for dps and healers? At the very least, if I were a DPSer or Healer, I would carry an alternate set of boots with the enchant for certain fights that require quick reaction to get out of bad shit.

And you can't always Intervene to someone to get there quicker. What if you're toting a mob that Whirlwinds? What if there's nobody in that direction? What if you don't have enough rage at the moment to Intervene? What if it's on cooldown?

The Tuskarr's speed increase is always there, and you can't get that benefit any other way. Get it.

Nizari
06-08-2009, 11:24 PM
I love my movement speed when I tank, my warrior uses the enchant and I spec into it for my pld


its a god send for kiting general V, I can afford to miss a few seconds at the start of the cast and still have plenty of room between me and him (I raid lead so I'm calling out things constantly over vent and watching everyone so it tends to happen more then once V.V)

chubtohd
06-10-2009, 04:20 PM
While I understand that Tuskarr's is the only way to gain movement speed...I do not understand the use of words like 'superior' ... I guess that's my point.

To me stamina is stamina...8% run is making up for poor reflexes/paying attention to cast bars/dbm

@ Kerg - I don't get the benefit in most of the boss fights



Razorscale: Moving to the next drill to get mobs... before they spawn (can't charge). Pulling Sentinel out of group quickly. Getting to downed boss quicker to put up Sunders.

DPS should have those adds killed before the next drill...if not...a TC brings em to ya quickly enough. With Sentinels...a 30 yard taunt gets there faster than running. When RZ lands...you should be positioning any left overs in front of his mouth anyway, allowing you to sunder him freely.


Ignis: Pulling Molten Constructs to water. Moving out of Scorch.

With proper positioning of the scorches, they should be close to the water anyway. If you're tanking Ignis, step in and around while casting to avoid them


XT: Stationary fight for MT. Run speed will not help here.


Assembly: Getting out of runes. Getting away from Overload. Running from Lightning Tendrils.

If you're standing dead center where a Rune of Death is cast, or with Lightning Tendrils, I see a benefit. Overload you can back away from in plenty of time without the need of turning and running.


Kologarn: Stationary fight for MT. Run speed will not help here.


Auriaya: Kiting boss away from Void Zone.

50/50 on that ... only in case of a REALLY horrible 2nd void would I see the scales tipping in its favor


Hodir: Moving away from blue runes.

They're really really small.....


Thorim: Moving left or right in hallway. Moving down hallway in general. Getting to boss to initiate Phase 2. Running to pick up mobs in Arena.

There is plenty of time to move from left to right ... in the case of a bad stun, maybe it lets you run out in time...maybe not. Getting to the boss isn't a problem if you're moving the whole time while tanking the mobs. Maybe the arena, I don't know...I like it in the hallway, so I stay there :)


Freya: Fairly stationary for MT. Offtank helps with picking up mobs.

Actually...during the kiting phase out of the bombs, it's possible that there is a benefit...does Tuskarr's work when going in reverse?


Mimiron: Running out of Shock Blast. Picking up and positioning mobs.

You can back out of the shock blast without needing to turn and run...if you do turn in run...you're out in plenty of time. Again, on adds, a 30 yard taunt / charge is quicker than running

General: We don't kite, didn't like doing it, found rotating SW / Last Stands / saves to be more consistent ... so I can't speak to that

Yogg: We use the tank in the middle taunting strategy, so again no huge benefit cept maybe when moving a low mob around a cloud.


I just don't like absolutes on one over the other. Words like far superior I don't get. That's the reason I posted the question, cause many tanks say if you don't have it, your not a real tank.

I just never understood that or possibly I might have missed something. Apparently by these posts, I haven't. Has 7 extra stamina ever saved my life...yeah...very often...no. Have I ever got caught standing in something I shouldn't have cause I didn't run out in time...well...there's no screenshot so you can't prove it :P ... but yeah...I have.

Zakaa
06-10-2009, 05:31 PM
i tend to use the tuskarrs vitality becouse that thoose 8 % is unique, you can't get thoose from anywere else (unless you want to waste you meta)

Your talking about bosses were it would be usefull, what about trash? how many times havn't you been 4-5 yards away from charging that accidently pulled trash group who are attacking your dps/healers?

chubtohd
06-10-2009, 06:28 PM
get the DK and Pally to tank trash! :)

uglybbtoo
06-10-2009, 08:37 PM
In naxx that 8% may mean u dont die like a retard on frogger with everybody teabagging your lifeless gimp body.

Small cost to preserve ones dignity

sicness
06-11-2009, 11:16 AM
I'd say it's definitely debatable. As a warrior tank and being the most versatile of the tanks in terms of movement I can't really recall any time that the extra run speed would have really helped all that much in encounters, even movement heavy ones. 7 stam on the other hand isn't bad, but it's not amazing, just personal preference.

SquishemHard
06-11-2009, 02:08 PM
Run speed is superior as a general use enchant. We load up on stam because of the things we can't control, like getting hit multiple times in a row for massive amounts. The only thing that we can guarantee to help us in those worst-case scenarios is more effective health. Now sure, a lot of situations are designed so that we can do just fine by paying attention and doing what we are supposed to. However, we are all human and thus prone to making a mistake or spacing out every now and then. In a lot of these cases, 8% runspeed is one thing you can do that will guarantee you succeed should this other type of worst case scenario occur.

One of my favorite quotes...
"Prepare for the worst, hope for the best"

Kataztrophe
06-12-2009, 02:38 PM
I've used Tuskerr's and will always use Tuskerr's. You can't get a run speed increase any other way except for a meta. Not only can the speed increase help on boss fights, but also in regular playing such as BG's, running around a city, running back from a wipe, etc. I'll gladly give up seven stam for speed any day.

pright
06-15-2009, 12:31 AM
Just have two pairs of boots if you're unsure. One with Tuskarr's and the other with Fortitude. Change based on the fight and see which you prefer.

As for the 'which is better' argument, it's all down to personal preference as a lot of people have said and as you can see everyone has a different opinion. I personally favour the run speed in all situations, and I've done so since Pre-BC. It feels weird running at normal speed now.