Raiders have torn apart my guild! :(

[Twilíght]

Sorry for the long description but it's easier to understand this way.

So here's the deal. In the beginning of the year I created my own guild. I had not yet hit 80 so it was rather more of a learning experience. The guild I was a member of beforehand had many level 80's but once they left to raid the fun seemed to be sucked out. It had been my family on WoW so to speak as I had been a member since around level 15. No one was speaking anymore, a handful of 80's stayed behind as they didn't want to leave yet but the guild had lost its spark and majority of the population left, including me. In the following weeks I went through guilds like the muffin man through flour but none seemed to have the same buzz.

From there I made my own guild. Taking anyone who asked for an invite, every level, every class. I had completely no idea how to run one of course so it was quite a learning experience. Over time more higher level characters joined our ranks, including one or two 80's who were fed up with raiding. I advertised the guild as a social guild for that is what it was. The tiny green writing was always flooding the screen which was filled with banter, advice and overall the sense of a friendly guild. And so the guild was growing, we were nearing 200 members in just a few weeks. I kept a pretty tight ship, after all it was a place to enjoy the chat not to be abused by anyone who considered themselves above the rest - particularly above lower level players which was often the case. When I hit 80, a few more of the members also reached the magic number and we began doing heroics and some raids together, PUG'ing those we needed. It was brought to my attention by a first hand the idea of converting the guild into a raiding guild. He himself was a member from the beginning and a well geared and experienced raider, given the timeline. Once we began advertising as a raiding guild the requests and new members came pouring in. The guild site was modified to the best of my ability to best compliment the conversion.
Due to rapidly approaching exams, in the beginning of May I was 'banned' from WoW. I have been unable to return since but I have been informed that the first hand who was so keen on converting the guild into a raiding one has since left because the 'time's weren't suitable'. During the time when the guild was raiding I made sure the new members knew their place. They were no more important just because of their experience, gear or level than those who had been members longer although not of high level. In my absense the very thing I was trying to prevent occured, most of the older members left due to the raiders. Instead of promoting a new guild master I kept three first hands to help keep the guild alive. Two were raiders who would be organising the guild raids.
It seems as though the guild itself has been 'raided'. There are hardly any people online anymore, there's no chat as the social side I had been keen on keeping was gone.

The reason I have typed this long and boring story out is to get some answers to questions that have been eating at me since I stopped playing.

1) Was I just stupid in the first place to think I could create and run a guild? And idiotic in thinking I could keep both the social and raiding sides alive?

2) Should I just abandon the guild? It is something I would hate to do considering the amount of time and money (namely my epic flying fund) I have put into it.

3) Or should I just brave it out and try to rebuild the guild to its former glory?

Any help would be greatly appreciated as I really am at wits end!

[Cookie]

I don't really understand why you felt that you had to convert your guild into a "raiding guild" in order to raid, surely it would've been better for your guild to be a casual guild which raids rather than a raiding guild with many casuals.

Though imo the changes were mainly due to your break- since you weren't there, the officers ran the guild as they saw fit. But people leaving for other guilds isn't really new, it was probably more due to your guild not being a good fit for them rather than them not liking to raid.

[Mookey]

Vene wrote not long ago:

Raid is as strong as it's weakest link
Raid is very strong if it can work without it's strongest link

Same apply to your guild m8, your guild was not strong enough to survive without you. Transitions in WoW are hard and it has to be done with patience and understanding, guild merging, different directions should be taken in several steps...

You were supposed to have step by step approach

Heroics team 5-10 people (play week or more to get used to each others)
Nax10 team 10-15 (start playing nax10, with bench replacements, sort it out, get used to few new people)
Then you have core of the guild to build up 25 man team where first 5 plays one month together, first 10 few weeks already and you generally filter out bad ones.

[Twilíght]

Sorry, the story is rather messed up. I had it typed last night then there was some failure thing and it was gone. It wasn't that we converted the guild fully to a raiding guild. We simply advertised it as one, but still being a social guild too - if that makes sense. o.O We were fed up with PUG'ing raiders and as raiders don't tend to join social guilds to raid it's easier to say we raid too, so it was more of a raiding guild that's socialable . . . . It's starting to confure me now! :mad:

And it's not really the people leaving that's making me ask these questions - people have come and go all the time. It's the people that have been there since the beginning, I know them relatively well and they were just shunned away. What i'm asking in a nut shell is should I just abandon the guild or stay with it?

@Mookey, very wise words. The original base group were well experienced raiders that grew their abilities with the guild. However with many larger hard-core raid groups it's hard to find many people to take the time to see how it all works. We were doing as you said the heroics, then easier 10 mans etc. but the will power wasn't there. I guess I should've just made the decision earlier to scrap one side or the other, there just aren't enough people on the server that have the patience.

Thanks for your replies guys.

[dirt]

Just my 2 cents for what its worth. Being a GM is very hard, and requires alot of time & effort. People in WoW are fickle, by that I mean its hard to find loyal people willing to ride out the bad times. Converting from a "Casual" to "Raiding" guild may get you a better class of raiders, but also expectations will be much higher. So if you have gaps in raiding or can't fill the spots or don't progress much, generally speaking people see that as a sinking ship and make the jump sooner rather than later.

Personally speaking, I was in a great guild. We were "casual" but got into raiding and that soon became a 5-6 night a week thing. We did really good at first and drew alot of new members. Then our GM much like you, had to start taking extended breaks because his job required him to travel for a week at a time. He did much like you did and turn it over to his "right-hand man". That was the being of the end for alot of us. This guy was a total d%^* and almost drove me to the point of never wanting to raid.

I'd say if you are not going to be directly involved for extended periods of time because of your studies you'd be better off sticking with the "casual" tag and raiding when you can, pugging spots if need. Unless you have some really solid officers you can trust to keep things going in your absence. Otherwise your probably setting yourself up for failure and alot of people quitting. Raiders want to raid, and getting 10/25 people together X nights a week and progressing takes alot of work. Running a guild takes alot of work, all of which I'm sure you've realized at this point.

Good luck to you.

[Cookie]

So basically in order to not have to pug, you lied to gain members, members who joined the guild with expectations to have proper raids, and alienated those who never wanted to be in a raiding guild in the first place.

Contrary to what you may think, there are MANY casuals who want to be part of a casual guild and do raids at the same time. It is not needed to advertse yourself as a raiding guild to attract people, especially if it's not what you wanted to be in the first place.


Honestly, I think you should just ask yourself if you want to keep maintaining your guild. But if you choose to go on with it, be clear with your members what your objectives are. Though personally, if it was me, I would leave your guild as well- a GM who promises a casual guild, but goes on to advertise as a raiding one simply to fill a roster, and then goes back to saying it was never meant to a raiding guild in the first place has no direction imo, and seems to just change aims in the moment.

[Twilíght]

My first and formost aim as the Guild Master is the welfare of the guilds members.
The raiders know from the moment they enquire that the guild is mainly a social guild. I have not lied to 'fill a roster'.
Having a large guild is not on the agenda.
We have proper raids with those who want to raid, but that does not mean we shun those who are not yet geared for it is they who have contributed to the guild to make it what it was.

And thanks dirt, it certainly helps :) So quit/disband or stick with it?