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Ciderhelm
06-03-2009, 02:08 AM
WQVwRko-b0o

http://www.tankspot.com/forums/images/snowfall/donorbanner.jpg (http://www.tankspot.com/premium.php)

Though it won't be obvious unless you're paying attention to Grid or chat, this was a pretty rough pull. The pull occurred before we called it so initial potions either weren't used or were locked out at the end of the encounter. Several players were hit by Flash Freeze. We failed the timing of the misdirect and tricks I normally need at the beginning, which led to a couple early aggro issues. However, this illustrates how important a benchmark system is -- we were a comfortable 5% ahead of where we needed to be on our timers, and even with the slowdown from lost DPS we were confident we would finish it.

Sirq
06-03-2009, 02:26 AM
Can't wait, giggity goo

Glittersmith
06-03-2009, 02:30 AM
Looking forward to see how to do this better since we just beat him with 1second to spare on normal.

Fun part was that my weapon broke during the first 30seconds and I had to tank him without a weapon >.<

Lyco
06-03-2009, 02:39 AM
You charge in with a Yellow weapon? But i'm also interested to see how it's done even with all the issues mentioned.

Glittersmith
06-03-2009, 02:46 AM
It was not like I charged in knowing it was yellow. (new UI, I seem to have removed the durability warning guy)

Ciderhelm
06-03-2009, 02:59 AM
Movie up, and available to donors.

Wallert
06-03-2009, 03:51 AM
Did you stack ranged dps at all here?

Your strat seemed to favour them - since you kept him in one place it seems to be luck based whether the melee get the star light buff or not, and as you noted the storm cloud was given to the ranged groups here.

It's sensible since the casters gain one more npc buff than the melee-but would the strat need to be altered for a more melee heavy group? (say a ten man group with a 50:50 melee to ranged split)

Dragaan
06-03-2009, 04:10 AM
What kind of hit/expertise do you run with for doing this fight? I noticed that you said you wear 3 pieces of frost resist while tanking... My threat is generally very high (~9k patch in threat gear, for example), but swappin' out my normal tank pieces for resist kinda scares me on a fight like this where casters are hitting for 60k a pop.

Ciderhelm
06-03-2009, 04:14 AM
Did you stack ranged dps at all here?
We just generally stacked DPS, up to the point we had healers respecing. We keep too tight a roster to switch people out based on ranged or melee.

Meeks
06-03-2009, 04:17 AM
Aye me and our other holy paladin both went ret and we did our hard mdoe kill with 3 healers. Had a bubble/divine sacrifice for every frozen blows though.

Titangrip
06-03-2009, 04:18 AM
Cider,

I noticed you used Deep Wounds spec for this and I'm currently having issues holding aggro. Is it a must to go UA spec for this?

Ciderhelm
06-03-2009, 04:22 AM
Cider,

I noticed you used Deep Wounds spec for this and I'm currently having issues holding aggro. Is it a must to go UA spec for this?
This is just a bad fight for UA. I originally thought it'd be a better one, but any DPS/TPS gains you get from the spec are wiped out by the lengthy Flash Freeze casts and FrR gear.

UA is something I'll try to touch on in a news post, but I need to use it on Vezax before I can articulate a full thought process on it.

Arnold
06-03-2009, 05:31 AM
Would it be safe to assume you wore no FR for the Hard Mode and just maximized TPS? I've been wearing two pieces for normal encounters to ease the learning curve, but I've been contemplating leaving normal gear on.

Zakaa
06-03-2009, 05:54 AM
Awsome video, realy good job!

btw ciderhelm by the look of your inventory, someone likes to save gear :p

Lyco
06-03-2009, 06:08 AM
If you're having issue with threat visit Veneretio's blog, he has a great Mage trick (http://www.tankingtips.com/2009/05/19/hodirs-mage-trick-and-more/) for situations like this.

Meeks
06-03-2009, 06:15 AM
Would it be safe to assume you wore no FR for the Hard Mode and just maximized TPS? I've been wearing two pieces for normal encounters to ease the learning curve, but I've been contemplating leaving normal gear on.

Can't speak for Cider but when I did it our tank(a DK) started in resist gear but ended up going normal gear...combination of a cooldown plus paladin divine sacrifice every frozen blows made us unable to tell the difference in damage taken but threat was better.

Darksend
06-03-2009, 06:21 AM
Maybe it is because my guild runs 2 full melee groups, but we find tanking him in one place is very ineffective. Our rogue did 14K dps last night, and me as feral did 11K, with 2 ranged dps at 12K.

Maybe I am missing something but why would you effectively lock out 1/2 your raid from getting a crucial buff when you can kite him from beam to beam?


O.o as im typing this you just said you used 3 healers ok that explains things a little but still confused as to what advantages not moving him gives when i see plenty of disadvantages.

Also even with 4 healers our warrior tank uses 3 pieces of frost resist and 4pc t8.

Regill
06-03-2009, 08:10 AM
Nice video, as always.

One suggestion: Mages can absolutely demolish the dps meter on this encounter, warlocks as well to a lesser extent. Something about the buff stacking just works well for them. Stacking mages / warlocks for your first kill can help out, as they are capable of 15k+ dps. We try to prioritize that mages get Storm Power.

One thing we noticed when doing this with mages that can produce said numbers is that threat is an issue. The simplest solution was to ensure that the tank (we have our DK MT handle this encounter) gets Storm Power, especially the first one early on. Otherwise ranged just need to use their threat clears at the right time.


Oh some kills we have gotten 2 flash freezes, some you get 3, it's just random like that. If you get a third it will be so late in the fight that you may not want to break out the npcs again.

Meeks
06-03-2009, 08:16 AM
Our mages were always at the top...right behind our ele shaman who was #1 on most attempts and the kill.

Me and the other holy paladin that went ret were pretty pathetic though ;-(

Regill
06-03-2009, 08:41 AM
Here's a useful tool, shows highest dps for each boss, broken out by normal or hard mode. Let's you sort by class too.

WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish (http://www.wowmeteronline.com/rank/clazz/dps/all/7/0/3)

One Mage on Hodir broke 20k dps o.O

Meeks
06-03-2009, 08:45 AM
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis (http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-xuc2vUKmNpdfPSEE/sum/damageDone/?s=2069&e=2281)

Was our first hard mode kill and did it with maybe a second to spare...3 of the 4 mages we had that night were not normal raiders so that certainly had something to do with it. I want better ret gear too!

Personal damage also has a lot to do with how lucky you are with getting the crit buff.

Man▀earpig
06-03-2009, 09:51 AM
Maybe it is because my guild runs 2 full melee groups, but we find tanking him in one place is very ineffective. Our rogue did 14K dps last night, and me as feral did 11K, with 2 ranged dps at 12K.

Maybe I am missing something but why would you effectively lock out 1/2 your raid from getting a crucial buff when you can kite him from beam to beam?


O.o as im typing this you just said you used 3 healers ok that explains things a little but still confused as to what advantages not moving him gives when i see plenty of disadvantages.

Also even with 4 healers our warrior tank uses 3 pieces of frost resist and 4pc t8.


I consistently do 10-11k on every pull with him stationary. Keeping him still simplifies the fight considerably for ranged and allows casters, who take a much larger advantage from moonbeams, to maximize their dps. Our mages hold around 14-15k on this fight.

Emerys
06-03-2009, 10:19 AM
We are trying 25 man this week we did 10 man pretty easily and if you are interested here's the video of our kill YouTube - Hodir 10-man Hard Mode

:D hopefully soon i ll post a 25 man kill as well :D

Meeks
06-03-2009, 10:41 AM
Moving him to every new beam and just standing in one spot are both less efficient in my opinion but if it was one or the other I would pick moving.

For us it was a matter of deciding when it was a good time to move him and when it was not worth it. Where there were 3 beams 5-10 yards away in a spot where casters would not have to move then there is no reason not to. If it required a lot of repositioning we just stayed put.

Darksend
06-03-2009, 10:43 AM
I consistently do 10-11k on every pull with him stationary. Keeping him still simplifies the fight considerably for ranged and allows casters, who take a much larger advantage from moonbeams, to maximize their dps. Our mages hold around 14-15k on this fight.

and when 0 sunbeams get dropped in melee ?

Roarc
06-03-2009, 10:55 AM
I did find the staying stationary an interesting choice. We've been about 5% off our speed-kills on this phatso but we generally use a kite tactic which seems to boost dps over anything.

We are however running with 4 and not 3 healers…*I presume a more stationary approach makes it easier to focus on less damage in-take and less movement will possibly improve some people's dps also perhaps… Still an interesting way of doing it.

As for gear I have a semi-threat build and use 2 piece frost and 4 piece T8 for this fight. Threat is in general not an issue but people can ride close at times.

Regards
Roarc

Man▀earpig
06-03-2009, 11:45 AM
and when 0 sunbeams get dropped in melee ?

I almost never get sunbeams. The few pulls we got one they were not behind him so i couldn't shred. I just ignored them mostly. We toyed with the idea of just moving him a little bit when one landed near us.

Darksend
06-03-2009, 11:54 AM
I almost never get sunbeams. The few pulls we got one they were not behind him so i couldn't shred. I just ignored them mostly. We toyed with the idea of just moving him a little bit when one landed near us.


I usually barely break 8K standing in sunbeams the entire fight, got any WWS's ?

adorach
06-03-2009, 12:00 PM
we are planing on trying hodir hard mode as well thank u for the video but u said that the requirments of dps is fairly high what would u say the min for this hard mode encounter would be

Kozuki
06-03-2009, 04:13 PM
I find the stationary strategy interesting. We'll be going for this in 10 man next week, but we've always kited him to give more benefit to the melee. Our DPS are 1 Death Knight, 1 Rogue, 2 Shadow Priests, 2 Mages, 1 Moonkin. Is the stationary strategy really that superior, even for us?

Titangrip
06-03-2009, 04:20 PM
This is just a bad fight for UA. I originally thought it'd be a better one, but any DPS/TPS gains you get from the spec are wiped out by the lengthy Flash Freeze casts and FrR gear.

UA is something I'll try to touch on in a news post, but I need to use it on Vezax before I can articulate a full thought process on it.

Thanks for your replies Ciderhelm. How many pieces of FrR Gear are you wearing, and if you are, which ones? I'm assuming the raid doesn't need to wear, since this is after all a DPS race.

swelt
06-04-2009, 02:50 AM
and when 0 sunbeams get dropped in melee ?

Remember that storm power is a bigger deal than moonbeams, especially for classes that crit a lot.

mistersix
06-04-2009, 08:18 AM
This is just a bad fight for UA. I originally thought it'd be a better one, but any DPS/TPS gains you get from the spec are wiped out by the lengthy Flash Freeze casts and FrR gear.

Do you mean just for the hard mode or is that your opinion in normal mode as well? In my own personal experience my guild seems to do better with me in my UA spec on this fight. When in more beefcake specs or the deep wounds spec agro invariably gets pulled. I just use the flash freeze casts to refresh any losts stacks of sunder or shouts and the like. Plus I still have copious rage to HS spam assuming the snow drift is close by (which it usually is). I also tend to avoid FrR on normal mode. Smart cooldown management between me and the healers seems to do fine.

Given how much of a dps race this fight is it seems the more I can contribute in that regard the greater our chances of success.

protland
06-04-2009, 08:51 AM
Hey Cider,
I noticed on this video you have a different type of "nearby mob health" bar. They seem to have no outline around them.

Could you point me in the direction of that addon?


Thanks,
Protland

Nuke
06-04-2009, 01:13 PM
Hey Cider,
I noticed on this video you have a different type of "nearby mob health" bar. They seem to have no outline around them.

Could you point me in the direction of that addon?


Thanks,
Protland
Ciderhelm UI Information

protland
06-04-2009, 02:04 PM
Ciderhelm UI Information


Yes I am well versed with that link.

This addon seems to be a new addon that has not been added to his UI info

In the Hodir video you can clearly seem them as they are the "flash frozen" NPCs target bars above their heads.

Man▀earpig
06-04-2009, 02:18 PM
Aloft (http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info10864-AloftBeta.html)

protland
06-04-2009, 02:57 PM
Aloft (http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info10864-AloftBeta.html)


beautiful. thanks.

Thad
06-04-2009, 09:00 PM
the whole keeping him in that one place for the fight is great. we weren't going for hard mode or anything but keeping him in that one spot shaved 2 minutes off our kill time.

huhcio
06-05-2009, 08:09 PM
1. how do you mark the mages ? as it is impossible to mark them while tombed- you macroed their name or have someone assined to mark them ? (if macro, please copy paste :P)
2. do you only free the mages and rely on them getting outher NPCs out, or not ? if yes, will it work on 10 man?
3. we run a melee heavy group (usually 2 rogues, ret, 2 hunters another rogue/feral kitty/ warrior, with 1 tank and 2 healers on 10 man- any suggestions bout positioning ?^^)

Regill
06-05-2009, 08:46 PM
1. how do you mark the mages ? as it is impossible to mark them while tombed- you macroed their name or have someone assined to mark them ? (if macro, please copy paste :P)
2. do you only free the mages and rely on them getting outher NPCs out, or not ? if yes, will it work on 10 man?
3. we run a melee heavy group (usually 2 rogues, ret, 2 hunters another rogue/feral kitty/ warrior, with 1 tank and 2 healers on 10 man- any suggestions bout positioning ?^^)

A simple macro that is just /tar targetname should work fine.

Just break all the ice blocks yourself, though don't go out of your way to break priest npcs in 10 man.

melee heavy might be a bit harder, but 2 ranged should be enough. The positioning in the video will be fine.

Fayre
06-06-2009, 06:41 AM
/tar miss and /tar siss will help you mark them.

mistersix
06-06-2009, 11:21 AM
This strat definitely works on 10man. imo it's a good approach in general regardless of setting.

Xly
06-07-2009, 12:17 AM
I see a lot of people in this thread managing to pull off as much as 15k dps and almost always at least 10k, but in both 25 man and 10 man, I don't think I've ever reached anything higher than 6k dps.
In a 10 man Hodir kill, I once hit 6.5k and OMGWTFed thinking I was amazing until I read this thread.
I normally stand by the cozy fire that the mage puts out and then simply stand and dps the boss, sometimes moving into a beam of light if there is one in range of the cozy fire. Should I be prioritizing the beam of light over the fire? What about the storm cloud (I still haven't quite figured out how that works yet, either.)?
Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thad
06-07-2009, 10:20 AM
well stormclouds increase damage caused by your crits so if you crit alot (and if you're a mage or boomkin you prolly do) its definitly good to get near someone with the stormcloud buff. just be aware you will overtake to tank quickly on threat so you'll have to be careful.

Murdog
06-07-2009, 10:46 AM
Ive seen alot of threat related questions and which spec's is optimal, and how many FrR pieces ppl use. I used a full Survivability spec no UA or DW as well as wearing 3 pieces of FrR. I rarely had threat issues i found that well timed taunts make threat a non-issue. The "MAIN POINT" that makes threat none existent is taunt, When used during Flash Freeze you can gain all the threat needed to coast right to the end of the fight.

How to do this you have to be comfortable with your DPS usually i can expect my mages to hit a nice streak with the storm buff and i told them when Flash Freeze is coming and if they have the storm buff to just burn like no tommorrow and by the end of they are at 150-170%+ (depending on where the "safe" mound is and how much threat i had at the time) and 1 second before Flash Freeze drops you taunt and you gain all the threat from that mage and the extra 30%.

So now with a single well placed taunt you have just secured the thread lead that will make sure no one will ever pull for the entirity of the fight ( even if ppl get close you can use this trick again) while keeping a High survivability spec as well as wearing 3 FrR Piece which give you the most survivability which i find is what you need when dropping more healers for DPS to make the required DPS benchmark.

TheYanger
06-07-2009, 11:57 AM
Hmm, it hadn't occured to me to try taunting during a flash freeze, but I suppose it should work then. Taunts are definitely a huge boon to threat, I actively encouraged our mages to go all out and simply was watching for the very quick taunts, afterwards, rather than specifically during flash freezes. You should be pulling 10-11k tps most of the fight regardless, but the taunts will probably still be necessary for most tanks.

Thad
06-07-2009, 09:42 PM
so tried this positioning on 25 man and it seems that if you have alot of melee they tend to get targeted by icicles alot making it extremely tough on melee i mean you can avoid them but with them coming one after the other it gets tough to tell the old ones from the new ones.,

cudmaster
06-08-2009, 11:36 AM
For those of you interested in 10 man info here is a wws from our 10 man kill yesterday (note he was casting when we pushed him over).

Wow Web Stats (http://wowwebstats.com/onx2ai4x3sgpi?s=93660-107548)

The boomchicken & shaman usually heal and I usually tank, but to do this we needed to go with a single tank, single healer, and the ret pally (me) getting (most of) the dispells so the priest could focus on making us not die.

We deal with agro by letting the tank get the lightning buff too, though usually just the first one.

TheYanger
06-14-2009, 12:22 PM
Tried the flash freeze taunt btw, wasn't working. Tried it many times just cause I could to verify.

bludwork
06-15-2009, 06:40 AM
good video but I think it's lacking in the healing department. Almost everyone who sees it goes "they used 3 healers?" What's the trick, increasingly I find the only way to do hard modes is to take as little healers as possible, but there's almost no info on healing tips when running such low numbers. We tried hodir with 5 or 6 and healers kept saying it was too intensive to even go down to 4. We've been also working on steelbreaker last for a couple of weeks consistently getting through to the 3rd tank rotation but with 6 healers which is a lot. Again healers going there's no way they can do it with 5-4. What's the trick there? maybe your healers can add some input to the videos :)

Kozuki
06-18-2009, 05:52 AM
Almost everyone who sees it goes "they used 3 healers?" What's the trick, increasingly I find the only way to do hard modes is to take as little healers as possible, but there's almost no info on healing tips when running such low numbers

You use mitigating cooldowns to lessen the damage taken by the raid. Aura Mastery and Divine Sacrifice (pretty sure this is mentioned in the video) as well as anyone's personal mitigation skills, such as Feint, AMS/IBF, Barkskin, mages spec'd for resistance + frost ward, etc.

My guild will pop bloodlust during the 2nd frozen blows as well to help with healing as well as DPS, and your healers should be making use of starlight for faster heals as well.

Squirrelnut
06-18-2009, 01:37 PM
Here are the highlights I got from this video and reading the various replies up to this point on this thread and which I added to our guild website:

Initial Pull


Misdirect & tricks of trade etc to help tank build initial threat lead
Break out NPCs in order of




mages
shaman
moonkin




Once they are out, mark the mages so that they can quickly be identified to immediately be broken out after flash freezes

Basics still apply


Don't get hit by Flash Freeze
Don't get hit by Icicles
Don't get hit by anything avoidable
Move to take off the debuff if not by a toasty fire

Positioning


Video they opt to keep Hodir stationary to control NPC location in the corner and allow ranged to maximize DPS and easily utilize starlight at all times. If we take this approach we would initially keep him near the melee breaking out NPCs for aoe DPS and then kite to the back right corner.
Not sure if that would work best or if we would prefer to constantly kite him to starlight allowing melee to benefit as well, something we need to figure out for our selves

Flash Freezes


After the initial pull only break out the mage NPCs after each flash freeze and assign two groups of ranged DPS to do this as quickly as possible
Once the mages are freed they will quickly free all the remaining NPCs
MT tip, have the mages/locks/casters go ALL OUT right when Flash Freeze is coming and when it has 1 second to dropping off taunt to gain a huge threat lead

Important points


Ranged should take advantage of fires ONLY IF it does not impede their DPS.
Ranged should ALWAYS be in starlight
Stormcloud buff from NPC shaman are the most important buff in the encounter. Only 6 people affected by it at a time and all individual cooldowns should be used when buffed with it. Try to keep ranged separated into two groups in different starlights, so if a healer gets the buff they would run to the closest ranged group to buff them

Point of no return


Call off DPS if unable to reach this damage benchmark in order to make the hardmode achiev.

55-60% @ 1.5 minute marker
If not 20% or below @ 35 second marker call a wipe



Raid Comp


TankSpot video only used 3 healers to maximize DPS. Healers keep in mind the fight will only be 3 minutes so they can time their mana usage accordingly.

Tips


Save Bloodlust/Heroism for the last 50 seconds so we know where we stand in the fight and can wipe it if needed
Use speed potions when initially breaking out the NPCs on the pull.
When only 35 seconds left on the timer, do not break any NPCs out after flash freeze, just burn Hodir.
We already downed Hodir hard mode in our 10 man the other day without any issues really but our DPS was fairly substantial with even me as the OT switching to my off-spec DPS gear doing 6.1k dps in a 10 man. For 25 and the various buffs available, should have lowest DPSers all well over 5k chasing the high end caster mages/locks/etc up around 11-13k.

If you disagree with anything or if I left anything out please feel free to point it out

Squirrelnut
06-18-2009, 01:51 PM
The "MAIN POINT" that makes threat none existent is taunt, When used during Flash Freeze you can gain all the threat needed to coast right to the end of the fight.

How to do this you have to be comfortable with your DPS usually i can expect my mages to hit a nice streak with the storm buff and i told them when Flash Freeze is coming and if they have the storm buff to just burn like no tommorrow and by the end of they are at 150-170%+ (depending on where the "safe" mound is and how much threat i had at the time) and 1 second before Flash Freeze drops you taunt and you gain all the threat from that mage and the extra 30%.

Just wanted to see if I understand you correctly, you are saying to have casters go all out just before flash freeze and then after it hits and 1 second before it wears off taunt? What 30% extra are you referring to, is that a mechanic of flash freeze? Thanks a bunch, this will be a great help

Mookey
06-19-2009, 01:30 AM
Aggro basics:
Player in 10 yard range of the boss (all melee always, casters if they come close) have to exceed 10% of tank threat to pull him of.
Player outside of melee range of the boss have to make 130%+ threat (or 30% more) to gain aggro.

You can easily let mage/lock/hunter to exceed your aggro by 10-20% and to climb the aggro ladder by taunting... however you need smart people here.

On hodir during the flesh freeze cast - your mages and warlocks if they are positioned good (not in melee range, have (almost) all buffs, safe from freezing) they can go all out since hodir wont move during casting at all and wont change target. As soon as cast finishes - they have to stop whatever they are doing and tank need to taunt... All aggro they made during that time is now transfered to tank but tank need to exceed that by 10% now during taunt timer (or they use Aggro reduce abilities).

Teaming and Timing. Very important. They have to stop as soon as they know that hodir is back to regular fight. They have to know their cycle so after going all out they have to use their aggro reducers.

Squirrelnut
06-19-2009, 07:45 AM
Great explanation, I wasn't aware of the 10%/30% aggro mechanics thanks a bunch. Is that a basic principle that applies to all fights or is that a Hodir specific thing? I am surprised I haven't noticed more on that previously

shez
06-19-2009, 10:57 AM
just did 10 man , 2mins 48sec

rogue 9063.3
rogue 8051.4
Fury warrior 6236.8
Warlock 6492.6
Warlock 5884.1
Enh Shaman 5954.9
Frost mage 4484.6
Prot Warrior 2019.4
Resto Druid
Resto Shaman

i kited hodir around the beams for melee since we have a melee buffed group.

We tried stationary tanking like what cider did in the vid in 25man (non hard mode), healers prefer that a lot more, but melee do a lot less dps

Squirrelnut
06-19-2009, 11:01 AM
Concern with that is your locks/mage only doing 4-7dps when they could be doing 10k+. We toyed with some different approaches in 10man last night and it does seem that ranged can pump out insane numbers if it is kept stationary in the corner like the video and although it limits the melee dps a bit the bonus to ranged and healers seemed worth it.

Prolly varies a lot based on group comp, I am still a bit undecided.

mistersix
06-19-2009, 11:06 AM
Great explanation, I wasn't aware of the 10%/30% aggro mechanics thanks a bunch. Is that a basic principle that applies to all fights or is that a Hodir specific thing? I am surprised I haven't noticed more on that previously

Not Hodir specific. That's why in your Omen or threat mods you'll see mobs stay on you even if you've been crested.


We tried stationary tanking like what cider did in the vid in 25man (non hard mode), healers prefer that a lot more, but melee do a lot less dps

That all depends on where ice blocks drop.

Mookey
06-20-2009, 01:46 AM
Great explanation, I wasn't aware of the 10%/30% aggro mechanics thanks a bunch. Is that a basic principle that applies to all fights or is that a Hodir specific thing? I am surprised I haven't noticed more on that previously

Yes... just if you didn't got clear - if mage pops mirror images he don't pull aggro even on 131% so key is to have good mage that pops mirrors on 130% and tell you that... and then he go all out and tell you again on last 1-2 sec of duration of mirror images - taunt then and you wont have problem on hodir at all.

Squirrelnut
06-22-2009, 09:02 AM
Sounds great however we usually have a warlock who maxes out on threat. I assume a similar tactic would be to have him go ballzout just prior to Flash Freeze and then as it ends I taunt and he does Soul Shatter?

Since I know little about warlocks is that something they all have or do they need to be specced for it?

TheYanger
06-22-2009, 10:27 AM
There shouldn't have to be any threat reduction on anyone's behalf. Once the fight is a minute and a half or so in you should have a big enough lead, if people start getting close it may be better for them to aggro dump if they can, but the reality is soulshatter and all of that really have nothing to do with it, the 'trick' is that you have to taunt quickly. That's it.

Squirrelnut
06-22-2009, 10:41 AM
As a tank I try to make it a point to do everything I can with regard to min/maxing gear, theory crafting, rotation work, etc. However, with that being said if your DPS do the same and effectively use the fight mechanics of Hodir they can drop some insane DPS numbers and thus some pretty high threat in the pursuit of 25m Hardmode.

I don't want to use the equivalent of a taunt bandaid as quickly as possible all the time, I would prefer to utilize a few calculated flash freeze taunts with fight specific concepts in mind so that threat becomes a non-issue with normal single target rotation.

Also I was wondering how effective it would be to intervene the lock or mage after taunting at the end of flash freeze and then just run back. Would that have much of an adverse affect on positioning, melee dps, etc?

Should I be able to do nothing more then taunt at the end of flash freeze and out threat the casters doing upwards of 12-15k DPS? I begin to worry that I am lacking as a tank or doing something wrong when my priority rotation has issues keeping me in the threat lead

TheYanger
06-26-2009, 07:16 PM
You probably want to move him as little as possible. I'm not sure that there's anything to feel 'inadequate' about. Taunting quickly before people get smooshed is a skill just as much as your threat rotation. IT's simply NOT possible for you as a tank to outthreat a mage doing 20,000 dps, that's not a flaw with your playing unless you can't taunt it off of them fast enough :)

cudmaster
06-29-2009, 09:08 AM
Also I was wondering how effective it would be to intervene

It can help some but is probably not worth "the risk" of getting frozen yourself or charging headfirst into falling ice or whatever (if you have a problem with that)...

I find the best time to do this is before the ice falls to form the snow piles, while he is spinning up his flash freeze cast. ymmv.


Should I be able to do nothing more then taunt at the end of flash freeze and out threat the casters doing upwards of 12-15k DPS? I begin to worry that I am lacking as a tank or doing something wrong when my priority rotation has issues keeping me in the threat lead

You need to get spark buffed too. If your dps thinks that you should be able to hold threat when they have that buff but you don't, then your dps is pants on head retarded. Believe me though a couple of shield slams (or whatever it is other tanks do) for 15+k and you'll be pretty good on threat for the fight.

agranyoch
07-01-2009, 01:02 AM
You probably want to move him as little as possible. I'm not sure that there's anything to feel 'inadequate' about. Taunting quickly before people get smooshed is a skill just as much as your threat rotation. IT's simply NOT possible for you as a tank to outthreat a mage doing 20,000 dps, that's not a flaw with your playing unless you can't taunt it off of them fast enough :)
Check out Veneretio's article about tanking Hodir: Hodirs Mage Trick and More! - Warriors - TankingTips.com (http://www.tankingtips.com/2009/05/19/hodirs-mage-trick-and-more/)

:)

breaklance
07-02-2009, 02:10 PM
can anyone tell me the dps benchmark for this fight, i beleive i was told earlier with 4 healers 1 tank 20 dps - all dps need to be 8k or more. My new guild has done the fight before but after a bit of recruitment we were unable to get it. The GM was thinking it was just because of deaths or a freeze that we weren't getting it, but our closest attempt we were still 1.5 million away. I was thinking it was because only half our dps was over 8k, though our top 5 were over 12k.

Tanksforus
07-16-2009, 05:54 PM
What would be a good timer addon, to show how long bossfight been going for?

Squirrelnut
07-17-2009, 08:36 AM
just get DBM and pay attention to the speed kill timer.

Kazeyonoma
07-30-2009, 09:22 AM
couple of questions.

How important is it for flash freezes to be broken out asap. enough that melee should peel off of hodir? or should it primarily be a ranged focus and melee helping anything that is within splash range of hodir.

2nd first night of attempts had us getting him down to around 20-21% and each attempt before that was 2-3% more, so we were showing progress (30->28->25->23->20). But 20% is still a long way to go. Do any of you guys think that if we can get to 20% we can make some slight adjustments and possibly achieve this? or is 20% too high and we need to just keep gearing up?

Thanks!

mistersix
07-30-2009, 09:23 AM
How often are people getting flash frozen?

Kazeyonoma
07-30-2009, 11:02 AM
unfortunately we had a couple of people getting flash frozen so maybe 2-3 each fight, but generally not very often. By Flash Freezes I mean the NPCs, and should there be a specific order of which ones should get broken out first?

Tosk
07-30-2009, 11:11 AM
My guild just got this last week, what we did was have only range break npc's out of ice blocks and we only broke out the mages and shamans. Of course, break out any players as well lol

Kazeyonoma
07-30-2009, 11:15 AM
What are the names of the mages and shamans?

Tosk
07-30-2009, 11:19 AM
Mages:
Veesha Blazeweaver
Amira Blazeweaver

Shamans:
Spiritwalker Yona
Spiritwalker Tara

these are the horde player names so any ally players will need to look up thier versions.

all names taken from wowwiki.com/hodir_(tactics)

Pagezero
07-30-2009, 11:22 AM
What are the names of the mages and shamans?

For Horde I use the following macro before the fight to mark them:

/target Veesha
/script SetRaidTarget("target", 3)
/target Amira
/script SetRaidTarget("target", 4)
/target Spiritwalker Y
/script SetRaidTarget("target", 5)
/target Spiritwalker T
/script SetRaidTarget("target", 6)

Works in both 10 and 25man, green and purple are the mages, other two are the shamans that do the storms. Not really sure why we mark the shamans because we don't break them out, but we have only done hardmode in 10man.

Tosk
07-30-2009, 11:24 AM
my guild marks them like that as well (different symbols probably though). we break the shamans out to make sure we can get the storm power buff as fast as we can.

but yeah, the mages are key to break out first.

mistersix
07-30-2009, 03:23 PM
Some guilds just break the mages who in turn break the others.

Zagnar
08-26-2009, 01:43 PM
I need to see how to do reg 10m version..anyone seen a good vid on it?

axsch
08-28-2009, 02:02 AM
I need to see how to do reg 10m version..anyone seen a good vid on it?


the fight is generally the same between 10 man mode and 25 man mode.
there are 4 npcs in the 10 man compared to the 25.He doesn't gain any new moves.Starlight should still be used.Moving is a must.Mage(rightmost one)should be first priorty.Healers should stand near the toasty fire which the mage casts.

thando36
08-30-2009, 11:47 AM
for marking NPC's all you have to do it his shift + V and run close, it gives you there health bars allowing you to click them and mark