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Failblog
06-02-2009, 06:17 PM
Hello,

I was thinking about ways to survive spike damage abilities in Ulduar and other encounters, and I was curious if anyone has tried using the Glyph of Salvation in a macro to cast on yourself just before the hit, then cancelaura effect, as the glyph is reduce all damage incoming by 20%.

Am I way out of line thinking that this is potentially a really sweet tanking glyph?

thanks

Failblog
illidan

Lizana
06-02-2009, 06:46 PM
Its only possible if your dps has Zero chance of getting close to your threat totals..

jere
06-02-2009, 06:59 PM
If you were wanting to make a macro for this, it would look like the DS cast/cancel macro:

/cancelaura Hand of Salvation
/cast [target=player] Hand of Salvation

It's risky though in threat races. It will most likely stay on you for a few seconds while you are waiting for the ability to land.

xenogriff
06-02-2009, 07:45 PM
sounds very risky and situational to me - if u can afford the drop in threat and can make sure dps maintains their output without overtaking u in threat, i'd say go for it

only other thing i dont like about it is that u give up a major glyph spot for something thats situational at best

Nadir_
06-03-2009, 06:12 AM
It's risky, yes. You'll only be able to use it on certain encounters. However even in Ulduar hard modes, you can gain enough of a threat lead so that using this ability isn't an issue. You're more likely to be able to use Hand of Salvation on yourself if the fight is stationary (XT, Auriaya, Thorim), if your mob isn't the first to die (Freya, Iron Council), or if the DPS is not benefiting from some sort of damage buff (everything but Hodir essentially).

Salvation friendly encounters:
Ignis
XT (and hard mode)
Auriaya
IC (and hard mode)
Freya (and hard mode)
Thorim (and hard mode)
Mimiron (and hard mode)

Salvation unfriendly encounters:
Razorscale
Hodir (especially hard mode)
General Vezax (especially hard mode)
Yogg-Saron

Unknown:
Algalon (I wonder if a Paladin has successfully tanked him yet :p)

Akeber
06-03-2009, 09:48 AM
Using the glyphed HoS is possible in many encounters. I got the glyph shortly after the patch and I've use it countless times. I use it when tanking steelbreaker on 25, as a "cushion" on the pull while everyone gets situated, 20% of no threat isn't much of a loss. I also use it in situations where I'm usually well ahead on threat, it's my strandard 3rd CD for Mimiron phase 1 in 10 man.

Nadir's list is pretty accurate. Glyphed HoS is usable more often than it's not.

jere
06-03-2009, 11:36 AM
It's not really 20% of no threat. It's 2% every second, so it affects your burst threat during the first 10 seconds to some degree. I agree with the sentiment of using it early though, as long as the 2% every seconds doesn't hurt too much, which for some fights it won't.

Akeber
06-03-2009, 12:51 PM
I'm not saying I don't think we need another CD, glyphed HoS does feel like a band-aid. What I am saying is that people seem to be far too concerned with the loss of threat. Pally tanks are threat monsters, the only fights where the 20% threat loss should be a problem are gimmick encounters. Even if we do get a second mitigation cool down, if they don't change the HoS glyph I will keep it as a third damage reduction CD.

Lizana
06-03-2009, 01:21 PM
You realize that its not just 20% of your current threat its 2% a second of your total threat... Say you have 100k threat on the boss, its going to take away 20,000 threat off the boss. Okay thats a few extra threat moves and you got it back, now lets say instead you have 1 million threat on the boss, you use it now you have lost 200k threat over 10 seconds, or 20k threat loss per second. You might be able to get away with it if your dpsers are not pushing 5k+ dps, but as they get geared you will find it harder and harder to use

Lore
06-03-2009, 01:28 PM
I had it glyphed for a little while, and simply never ran into a situation where I both needed the extra cooldown and wasn't worried about the 18%ish threat loss. All the "use a cooldown when this happens" bosses in Ulduar are also threat/dps races.

Nadir_
06-03-2009, 01:59 PM
I had it glyphed for a little while, and simply never ran into a situation where I both needed the extra cooldown and wasn't worried about the 18%ish threat loss. All the "use a cooldown when this happens" bosses in Ulduar are also threat/dps races.

For 10 man Firefighter having a two innate CDs plus a third external makes phase 1 significantly easier.

-20% damage on a high charge, hard mode Thorim Unbalancing Strike plus a subsequent critical hit is quite significant. DPS seem to have to move around enough that tanks gain enormous threat leads.

Steelbreaker has threat built up on him for several minutes. Salvation is great for Fusion Punches when they start to hit for more than your total raid buffed HP. You'd have 22 seconds of CD up time for the 30 seconds of overcharge.

Lore
06-03-2009, 02:01 PM
Yet in at least the first two situations, DPS will rip aggro if you salv yourself.

Nadir_
06-03-2009, 02:09 PM
Yet in at least the first two situations, DPS will rip aggro if you salv yourself.


On Thorim hard mode? I haven't seen that and I use Salvation consistently prior to an Unbalancing Strike. From what I remember I (and the other two tanks) had over a 40% total threat lead on the highest DPS.

On Mimiron I used DP on the first Plasma Blast, external Bubble + Sac on the second, and Salvation on the third. I did not lose threat, although I would suspect that the Warlock was riding my ass at the time. However we're not tanking the bottom again until Phase 4, and it's quite easy to keep threat off the melee. The Warlock's threat at the end of phase 1 isn't too important since they'll be focused on the Aerial unit in P4.

Alent
06-03-2009, 02:12 PM
On Thorim hard mode? I haven't seen that and I use Salvation consistently prior to an Unbalancing Strike. From what I remember I (and the other two tanks) had over a 40% total threat lead on the highest DPS.

On Mimiron I used DP on the first Plasma Blast, external Bubble + Sac on the second, and Salvation on the third. I did not lose threat, although I would suspect that the Warlock was riding my ass at the time. However we're not tanking the bottom again until Phase 4, and it's quite easy to keep threat off the melee. The Warlock's threat at the end of phase 1 isn't too important since they'll be focused on the Aerial unit in P4.

I somehow suspect that Lore is talking about a different caliber of DPS than you are.

Nadir_
06-03-2009, 02:16 PM
I somehow suspect that Lore is talking about a different caliber of DPS than you are.
I doubt it. From the looks of his Paladin's achievements, our two guilds are quite similar in progression standing.