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Seann
06-01-2009, 08:59 AM
:DHey guys. Love the site very helpfull.

One question.

I am in a pickle. A member of my guild and officer (Prot/Holy Pally) has told me I need to gem for Def Rating before going into raids.

My Wife also states to gem for Def Rating, while her brother says Stam gemming will be better since in Naxx 10 I will get the Def Rating cap from gear etc.. Leaning towards the Def Capping first.

I have only run up to the 2nd boss Naxx 10. New to the Raiding as a Tank, was a Hunter before WotLK.

Any thoughts will be great!
I know my sword needs to be replaced. Been trying to get the Red sword of Courage. If there is an easier to obtain weapon comparable to it please let me know lol.

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Sisters+of+Elune&n=Seann) <-- Here I am :)

Lizana
06-01-2009, 09:01 AM
your at 528 def, you need a min of 540... So start geming or gearing from normals

As for your weapon, theres a level 74 quest blue quest reward also there's one in regular HOL

Wanted: Ragemane's Flipper - Quest - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=12857) is the quest

Crescent of Brooding Fury - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=44735) is the reward

Eternally Folded Blade - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=36984) is from HOL normal - Also while there you can pick up a + def trinket

Seal of the Pantheon - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=36993)

Seann
06-01-2009, 09:05 AM
Gearing from normals as in? Heroic runs? - Got ya. Read and replied before you edited.

And so I should Def Cap before trying to go into the heavier runs?

Lizana
06-01-2009, 09:07 AM
Your not even at the defensive min for heroics... I would recomend farming Regular HOL get the Def trinket and the sword. That should put you at enough def to do heroics

Also get the level 80 tanking gun...

Skyborn
06-01-2009, 09:10 AM
You can't tank until you're at 535 defense for heroics or 540 for raids. The saronite tanking set made by blacksmithing can easily get you to the defense minimum.

Gearing from normals = gearing from normal dungeon runs (not heroics).

But there are also a lot of good tanking BoE epics out there that you can buy, not to mention all the reputation gear.

Seann
06-01-2009, 09:10 AM
Really? I run heroics all the time.

Only one to give me issues so far is Halls of Stone. Trying the Protection quest in there.

Lizana
06-01-2009, 09:13 AM
Yes you can run heroics, but it is not a responsible thing to do as a tank without being uncrittable. I can speed down the road 20 miles over the speed limit, doesn't mean i should do it though....

Cardolan
06-01-2009, 09:18 AM
You can't really gem for anything due to a lack of sockets, so at this point it doesn't really matter.

You need to reach 540 defense skill (689 defense rating). Your two main options are acquiring new gear (a very good idea, regardless) or enchanting the gear you have currently for defense (probably a waste of gold, since you'll likely replace the items you have quite quickly).

The Seal of the Pantheon trinket from the last boss in Halls of Lightning normal will give you enough defense rating to reach 540 defense skill, so aim for that (replacing Lavanthor's Talisman for now, since that doesn't contribute to reaching 540). You'll also probably pick up the weapon Lizana mentioned in the process.

Seann
06-01-2009, 10:18 AM
Cool. And at least Reg runs wont lock out.

Also wouldn't it be redundant to have 535 DR for Heroics and 540 for Raids?
Pretty much skip heroics and go straight to Raid gear.

Wukki
06-01-2009, 10:54 AM
You think it would be redundant until patchwerk wipes the floor with you. Get 540 defense, and keep it. That is your priority.

orcstar
06-01-2009, 11:09 AM
Ok first get a defense enchant on your shield. It's stronger then the stamina enchant THERE.(20 rating)
Chest can also be enchanted for defense. (22 rating)
And cloak can be enchanted for defense (12 or 16) although its quite expensive for cloak so you might want get an epic cloak first.
That's 58 defense rating.

4.92 defense rating will increase the defense skill by 1

this will just or just not get you to 540 defense skill already but at least very close, this leaves posibilities to gem for other things, ***cough stamina cough***

You can't tank until you're at 535 defense for heroics or 540 for raids.
Should tank with 540 defense is a big difference to what you're saying. You can tank when being critable it's just not good practice.

Seann
06-01-2009, 11:14 AM
You think it would be redundant until patchwerk wipes the floor with you. Get 540 defense, and keep it. That is your priority.


Mis-Read what I typed. I plan on capping at 540 now. I meant as a prev. poster stated 535 DR for Heroics, 540 for Raids. Then if that was the case why not 540 cap skip heroics and go straight to raids. See what I mean now? (Btw. I was not trying to ruffle feathers with this. Only saying. I know gear etc better from heroics in some cases.)

Only thing I needed to know was
Stam or Def gem/enchant. I pretty much have my answers. I have NO issues whatsoever tanking heroics, even when I had a lil over 500 DR still had no issues. Healers never OOM and I never died unless a pull went south. Thank you.

And I want to thank Lizana for her Item listing. Will be what I go for next.

Bryenne
06-01-2009, 11:24 AM
Something no one has bothered saying, and it's worth mentioning, is that you don't have to stop at 540. *540 is not a hard cap, it is a minimum.* Defense gives you both dodge and parry, and will continue to do so over 540. Being over the minimum defense also opens up more gear options, so you can swap out of items with a little less defense but more threat stats (hit, expertise, shield block).

Did notice that you have a parry/stam gem in your belt... take that trash and make some earrings or something for your guild she-gamer. Do not gem for parry. Ever. Def/stam or Def/exp, or just straight defense. There are several threads around tankspot that explain the reasoning behind this, so I'm not going to expound.

And for tanking's sake, replace that BC junk. Guh.

Edit - responding to the OP's most recent post: The 535/540 note was in reference to the minimum defense required to reach crit immune versus the bosses in heroics/raids, respectively. While you *can* tank below that minimum, you risk getting crit, and a single crit can drop you.

Martie
06-01-2009, 11:30 AM
Mis-Read what I typed. I plan on capping at 540 now. I meant as a prev. poster stated 535 DR for Heroics, 540 for Raids. Then if that was the case why not 540 cap skip heroics and go straight to raids. See what I mean now? (Btw. I was not trying to ruffle feathers with this. Only saying. I know gear etc better from heroics in some cases.)

Only thing I needed to know was
Stam or Def gem/enchant. I pretty much have my answers. I have NO issues whatsoever tanking heroics, even when I had a lil over 500 DR still had no issues. Healers never OOM and I never died unless a pull went south. Thank you.

And I want to thank Lizana for her Item listing. Will be what I go for next.
It's not a cap.
It's not a cap.
It's not a cap.
It's a minimum.
You don't cap defense, the more defense you get the better.

Voodan
06-01-2009, 11:57 AM
Yes, it makes sense just to shoot for 540 defense. Also, note that while many people refer to 540 as the "cap" for defense. In reality, 535 is the min defense required to be uncrittable for heroics and 540 is the minimum defense required to be uncrittable for raids.

While it makese sense (in most cases) to keep your defense as close as possible (while still being at least) the uncritable levels, going over 535/540 is not fully wasted itemization as you still gain dodge/parry/miss from defense skill.

Hope that helps.

Seann
06-01-2009, 12:20 PM
Ty for all the insight.

Martie. Ty for the Capped typing. I FULLY understand it isn't a CAP. Just using that to ref what I am gunning for.

I am done getting my info here. No more reason to post.

Voodan
06-01-2009, 12:26 PM
To clarify further, while defense past 540 does in fact increase your avoidance it is not generally the best approach. Overall, you can get more avoidance point for point by gemming for dodge than you could by gemming for defense.

So while 540 is not truly a "cap", it is a minimum threshold to remain uncritable and at the same time a desired max in order to maximize your total avoidance (and/or stam if you choose) for gemming.

Lizana
06-01-2009, 02:01 PM
540 is the def min, not a cap, you are right about that voodan, but with DR, you can hit DR returns on pure dodge to make def the better avoidance stat. Also keep in mind Def gives mitigation as well