View Full Version : motivation, carrots, how do I stabilize a guild?
06-01-2009, 12:43 AM
whiny emo bullshit: we had a rough couple of weeks in my guild where we basically rammed our heads into Hodir essentially due to one person in the guild really just not giving a crap about everyone else... and us not having a decent replacement for him. Since we couldn't just kick him and pug a heal spot (should have though) I have a reasonable suspicion that it basically just brought the morale of the whole damn guild down among a lot of people. Long story short... He left on his own, i suspect that he soaked up all the loot he needed and then bailed and suckered us all. Nobody's necessarily sad to see him go since the operative phrase was "my bad guys" and "I suck guys my fault" every time we'd wipe... because it was almost always his fault. Our first raid without him and boom we 1-shot Hodir, 2-shot Auriya and 2-shot Thorim. Unfortunately we were down to 6 guild members in that raid.
My problems are threefold:
#1: How do I get the people back now that the problem guy is gone?
#2: How do I motivate people to show up on "wipe days" where we have a reasonable expectation that we're going to wipe a lot, maybe the entire day until everyone finally understands the encounter AND manages to have a distraction-free 10 minutes AND executes the encounter well enough that we don't wipe?
#3: How do I balance the desire I have for members of the guild to be respectful of the rest of the guild, without turning raiding into an 'obligation' which I don't think is appropriate for a video game. I want people to care about the rest of the guild and at least give us a real heads up if they're not going to be around. I get the feeling lately that a handful of people are either waiting until we have the content on farm to come in and soak up all the loot on their alt and that they're happy with their main in some other guild instead... I don't know what the deal is. I just know we've got 18 raiders in the guild and we're lucky if 8 of them show up on a given day.
It's hard as hell to spend the effort to recruit replacements every single day.. but is this just how it goes in a raiding guild anyway? If anyone has any positive advice on how I can motivate people I'd really love to hear it. Everything I think of sounds too much like being a douche to people who should otherwise just be having fun playing a video game. Unfortunately the video game relies on 9 other people... and you're ruining someone else's night when you don't show up sometimes and that's starting to suck.
06-01-2009, 01:07 AM
First off - you should've kicked the bad player right away. Nothing demoralizes your troops more than sloppy raiders that are not treated properly. It sounds that you are more of a social guild than raiding guild - so excusing people's social skills (or lack thereof) for their raid performance is not going to be accepted at all by the rest of your team. You, as raid / guild leader MUST treat everyone equal. Even your best RL buddies must be equal to rest - this is what I found to be greatest burden any time I led a guild. Now, back on topic:
1) Will be hard. You can approach them in whispers, politely ask them to come back. Chances are, they are already established elsewhere and won't come. Wish them luck if they say no to you.
2) Recruit raiders. Recruit people that want to raid, tutor and gear them. Long run, but pays off. If you are in leading position in your guild, take actions. If you are leading raid guild, kick slackers - creates room for fresh people and motivates semi-slackers to perform or loose spot. If you are in social guild with raiding rank - demote. Take away their raid spots, make them realize raid spot is earned, not granted. I met many slackers and hated them all - from people coming for free loot only, to people pushing only till they got their loot... weed them out.
3) Answer here is summing up what I already said - it's all about people. Change your recruitement style, allow more people to say their oppinions. You are either very strict guild, where people are affraid to talk and stuff, or too open, so noone cares at all. Think about it, talk to officers. Change something. Not talking about brute changes and taking 180° turn, but change little here and there, see how it goes.
If you want to lead people, you have to be hard. Positive and negative motivations, their proper use in proper time. You don't want to be seen as douchebag. Now you must decide. Either you will have will strong enough to push people and be ready for what comes with it, or sit and whine about others. Making changes and enforcing something is never fun or easy. It needs great judgement, patience and social skills, not to overdo. So I wish you good luck, and my main advice would be, generaly:
If you want to lead, grow balls.
06-01-2009, 02:44 AM
Be open, admit the guild is going through a rough patch and ask for patience over the next few weeks, let people know that you are recruiting (sensibly) and that it might be a week or two before you get back to full guild raids. Keep communication open and flowing in all directions.
06-01-2009, 09:32 PM
I appreciate the advice, even if it's basically telling me to stop being a pussy and be real with people. :)
06-02-2009, 10:23 PM
Well, I have to agree with the people above. The situation called for assertiveness, just because the word is ass is at the beginning however, doesn't mean you have to act like one. I know it might feel that way, but you're keeping the best interests of your guild at heart, it only takes one bad apple to spoil a bunch (so they say). As for motivation? I'm a very goal oriented person, as such I run my guild the same way. Recently we had issues with people not wanting to log on because it was progression content. Seriously as soon as we went from Naxx farming while playing peggle to the prospect of wiping on Ulduar bosses a few times before we figured them out and downed them, people just stopped logging on during raid time.
So, I talked with my officers about the ever growing problem, and the decision was made to come up with a raid roster. I posted about my own work in progress 25 roster in the strategy forums Unbreakable - Adaptable Raid Composition (http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f148/50276-unbreakable-adaptable-raid-composition.html) the idea was simple, try to optimize a raid roster based on class tier tokens for available classes to fill said roster, giving hopefully a pretty solid mix of classes. The list overall giving us 4 tanks (all 4 capable of switching to a DPS spec at need) and 8 healers (half of which have a DPS spec they can run equally well). After finding out what kind of a raid force we "wanted" I took a hard look at our raid turn out, some people were coming regularly. And so I decided to make a new rank in our guild simply called Raider. These would be the core members of our new raid force, if you wanted into a raid you'd have to wait till raiders who wanted to go were invited. All based off of raid attendance and desire to be there. By simply adding a subtle element of exclusivity and saying "You have to submit a request for core raider eligibility which will be reviewed by officers the following Tuesday" people took notice, it actually increased traffic to our forums, and increased participation. Also, it helped us sort out how we handle Legendaries to a degree, officer vote at time of drop Raiders are given preference. Same applies to "keys". If people want to just log off when we're working on learning the raids, don't expect to be handed epics later. I can't say our own slump has been completely turned around, but we're short about 3-4 people to fill our 25 man roster, when before we were having trouble filling a 10 man. The only other advice I can give you on the subject is: when you make a policy like this, talk it over with your officers, and stand by it. If you're going to make people sign up on an online calendar to get a raid invite, don't invite people to the raid who haven't signed up. If you're going to say have vent or don't come. Then don't invite people to the raid who aren't in vent. Stick by your guns, your raiders will respect you for it.
06-02-2009, 11:47 PM
The people who left are probably lost forever. Once someone leaves even if they come back you can't rely on them staying for more than a few months; at least I've never seen it happen. You might be able to get them to join you in a new guild you make if you disband the current one though.
As for your other concerns I am going through similar issues. I've never seen a fight in WOW that was difficult and I'm beginning to believe they don't exist. The hard part to raiding is waiting for the people who are terrible to figure out things like "oh THIS fire is blue and I shouldn't die in it like all the other trivial fires we've seen before" or "hey I'm still supposed to heal the tank like I am always supposed to heal the tank?". It would be awesome to play with people who weren't still having to learn these basic things and to be able to go back to stuff we were killing in November and not wipe on it now.
The problem you are facing (and I) is that "wipe days" are demotivating as a strategy. The ones who are not showing up are probably your most skilled and capable players. They don't need to spend 10 hours wiping to learn a fight, they probably could walk into a spot in another raiding guild and do their jobs perfectly on the initial pull (or it might take two pulls). It is sometimes about gear, yeah, but oftentimes it is about having to sit there rolling your eyes at the incompetence you see in raids and not opening the mike on vent for long periods so you don't castigate the guys you are raiding with.
People begged for harder content and bigger challenges and for the most part I would say Blizzard delivered. Our guild is going through the same issues on fights like Razorscale 25 that we had on Lady Vashj/Kael'thas in T5. At some point you'll have to make a decision regarding the caliber of player you take into your guild (ie social versus skill) and if you pick social you'll have to lower your expectations on which content you can beat. Or at least be willing to wait until the next XPAC to beat it.
06-05-2009, 12:59 PM
I'm surprised you actually waited for SIX decent people to leave to keep ONE bad, and even then, at the end, he left on his own. If it were me, I doubt I would return to such a guild, because even though he isn't there anymore, he wasn't kicked, which means that the problem could repeat and then there'd be another bad in the guild that's not taken care of while loyal members are shafted.
Your best bet is probably to talk to them and mention that the problem guy left, and if they don't want to come back, just recruit.
As for rewards, extra dkp in wipe nights is a good bonus, as is gems/enchants from the guild bank. When people screw up repeatedly in my guild, they either get -dkp or a drop in the loot prio list. There's also casual and raider ranks, even though we're a raiding guild, and the raiders (ie the people who show up at least 4 days a week) get prio on spots.
06-05-2009, 01:14 PM
Being a GM myself I know exactly what you're talking about. I'm not going to repeat what others have said(or try not to) because you already know these things. The problem you have now is that the good members that left won't come back. Personally I wouldn't bother with them.
1. Because they are gone.
2. Then know that you where a little soft spoken or failed to react to the situation fast enough.
As a GM you need to figure out what kind of guild you want and let the guild know it. Set rules and leadership and make sure the leadership enforces those rules. If someone doesn't follow those rules(including leadership) then enforce punishment that you have set out.
The last thing I want to say here is this. You're a GM so you can't run everything. You're job as a GM is to find/make leaders and let them do thier job, you're more of an admin. If you try to do it all it'll burn you out or everything won't get done the way it needs to be done.
I hope that I have helped in some way, and good luck with the guild. It's hard now but stick in there and it'll work out.