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View Full Version : This person needs Help, so i need help!



Lattey
05-29-2009, 08:01 AM
hi everybody,

first of all, excuse my spelling im not the best english speaker around :P

So i have a big problem. I have a guild mate im warrior tank, he's warrior tank. everytime he is tanking i become tons of whispers how bad his TPS is and that he has no clue how to overview the whole fight.

So i talked to him several times and he really knows what a warrior tank has to do. so i thought "ok he knows it so he will do it". next raid, same problem. all the damage dealers complaining about him. i talked with him again tld him how i do it and he just said that he knows all that and why im telling him this.

now yesterday i decided to have a look at him all the evening. and nothing really dramatically happend since we got to hodir. my guild has done hodir hardmode ( rare cache thing) 2 times now in 25 man ulduar with me as the tank. my guild mate knows this fight well because he did it as well, in the 10 man version but i think that does not really make any difference in tanking.

i switched to my dps gear and he was tanking. after a few tries our leader told me to tank and he was replaced for another dd.

today i looked at the WWS logs. i found 2 fight which are pretty identicaly. we had same numbers of storm cloud buffs, heroism same dps time etc.
here are the logs:

Wow Web Stats (http://wowwebstats.com/madq5qmqic4ae?s=1118087-1169717&a=x400000000089acb#abilities) / Lattey produced 8094 tps vs Hodir (http://rehfeld.us/wow/tps/report/24588) me tankig

Wow Web Stats (http://wowwebstats.com/madq5qmqic4ae?a=x400000001c09af8&s=860643-916066#abilities) / Pascale produced 5704 tps vs Hodir (http://rehfeld.us/wow/tps/report/24589) he tanking

so you see what i do and what he does. i really want to help him tanking more effective but im running out of arguments. we have almost the same gear options and both have access to the same items. i mostly pass for him when something drops the first time.

i really would apprieciate if you guys can give me some arguments i can bring to explain him what to do and not to do. im not really good @ teaching someone else something so .. understand my posting :P

gretting

lattey

Jaeden
05-29-2009, 08:22 AM
Comparing the two, I see two big things.

1. You do more damage than he does. This could be a spec issue.

2. He throws rage away on many abilities.

I also noticed that he does not use Shield Slam as much as you do, as it is his third highest damaging ability and your second. The gap in damage isn't just a higher dps though, it looks like he just doesn't use it as much.

Without comparing specs, I will say it is rotation and what rage is spent on. He spends it on all sorts of things, whereas you have specific things you use in the fight.

Martie
05-29-2009, 08:50 AM
Let's see.

His shield slam does half the threat yours does. This probably has to do with him not using that shield block ability warriors have in unison with shield slam.

Your heroic strike does considerably more damage then his - he's probably not as well geared as you are.

He's using the mirror of truth and the mark of norgannon as trinkets... Not what I'd tell a tank to use.

Ah, there it is.
He used shield block once during the fight. Just once.

I'd compare your spec to his, see where the differences are, as he probably didn't spec to improve his shield. Once he starts using his shield slam as well as you do yours, his threat should improve quite a bit.
The other differences are either explainable through gear differences or bad spec.

Luj
05-29-2009, 11:59 AM
Some of the other posters have already identified differences in the use and relative strength of Shield Bash and Shield Block. I'll throw in a few observations of my own.

I think it's also worth noting the fairly large difference in Damage Shield damage per strike (331 vs 242). Given that both Shield Slam and Damage Shield are significantly weaker for Pascale, it might be good to look at differences in the use of Shield Block and Glyph of Blocking as well as relative Block Value statistics.

I see that Shield Block uptime on Lattey was 25% (this is the maximum possible) versus 0% for Pascale. I don't know if this is sufficient to explain the observed damage and threat differences for Shield Bash and Damage Shield, though.

In my own experience, chaining uses of Shield Slam together is useful for a few reasons. After using the first SS, the 10 second Glyph of Shield Slam proc begins. During this time, the warrior has 10% more block value. This is useful both for mitigation and for generating additional threat from Shield Slam and Damage Shield.

I think that the use of Heroic Strike is another very important difference. The two fights were almost exactly the same duration (200 vs 202 seconds) but Lattey produced much more damage via HS than did Pascale (194k vs 249k). I see a few possible reasons for this. First, Lattey managed to squeeze in 5 additional HS uses. Lag alone could explain this, so it's hard to blame the player, I think. Second, Lattey is much more likely to crit on HS (32% vs 26%). This may be due to luck of the dice, but the damage difference can be substantial, especially when Deep Wounds is considered.

Molohk
05-29-2009, 12:34 PM
He's not using either gplyph or blocking or glyph of revenge. I can't see his armory now, so I have no idea which glyphs he's using.

1) He's not using shield block as much as he should. The devastate/revenge dmg is pretty similar between the two of you, so we can assume most of the dmg difference in SS and reflective damage comes from SB usage.

2) I also noticed he uses TC and you don't, if there's someone else to do debuffs, your tank should be aware so he can focus more on threat (he only kept 16% uptime on TC, so no idea whats going on there).

3) He didn't have thorns, and you did (not a big difference, but it helps)

4) Your crit rate is about 5% higher than his.

5) There was a big difference in average damage for deep wounds, did you have a debuff on the boss that increased bleeding effect damage that he didn't have?

6) MOST IMPORTANTLY: You used 93 GCDs on offensive skills, during a 3'20" fight, he only used 79 GCDs on offensive skills during a 3'18" fight.

I think the main issues are: his low shield block usage, his glyph choices, and he may be a bit slow on his button mashing or maybe he has lag problems, leaving lots of dead time in between skills.

He also needs to fine-tune hes rotations: If he's not responsible for keeping TC up, he shouldn't be using it in a single-target fight (since he had imp icy talons, there was surely someone with imp icy touch in the raid).

Even though Hodir isn't the best for benchmarking tps/dps, it seems like you 2 had the same buffs, so I dont see a problem there.

Lattey
05-29-2009, 07:23 PM
Ok Thank you guys.

i think i have a bit more things to throw in when i speak with him :) sometimes its better to get more opinions than the own one.

i had only these 2 fights with the same dps time from the same day with anything else was the same in both fights. ok maybe the druids didnt like him so only i had thorns :)