PDA

View Full Version : Rate my character (Paladin Tank)



Ryethos
05-28-2009, 11:37 AM
First, thanks for reading, your input is appreciated.

The purpose of the thread is all in the title, check out my armory and tell me what you agree and disagree with as far as my talents, enchantments, glyphs, and gem choices go. I am unguilded, and I raid exclusively in pick up groups, most often leading, and most often MTing, although I do occasionally OT and/or heal. Feel free to introduce your own points of discussion, I'll start with a couple of my own.

- My talent build is about as defensive as a Paladin tanking spec can be. Where can I most afford to move talent points to be more aggresive and generate more threat? I was thinking of dropping Divinity and/or Divine Sacrifice in order to move down to Crusade in the Retribution Tree.

- I just can't seem to get rid of my Seal of the Pantheon - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=36993) . I need it to hit my defense cap. What other way could I be doing this? Better to gem first for defense or enchant for it?

Here's another convienient link to my armory:
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Jaedenar&cn=Ryethos)

Thanks again, looking forward to seeing your comments!

dagimp007
05-28-2009, 12:26 PM
the chest and back boths should have a defenseive enchent on them.. and stop stam stacking so much on the gems... IMO i would change those =24 stam gems into some dodge/stam gems... past that its a good start and u could even tank 25 man naxx

Ryethos
05-29-2009, 10:27 AM
I happen to agree that Stamina is not the end all and be all of tanking, there is a method to the madness however. Let me give an example to illustrate: Someone is putting together a PuG raid, and needs another tank. Two Paladins reply, one of whom has 28.6k health, and lower avoidance, the other has 27.6k health, but much better avoidance. Who gets picked to tank? Anybody who's been in the situation before already knows it's going to be the 1st tank. The fact that the 2nd tank still has more than adequate health, and would require less healing, is not factored into the decision. Non-tanks typically don't tend to consider these things. They check out someone's health and crit immunity and call it good.

Kelstet
05-29-2009, 10:40 AM
I happen to agree that Stamina is not the end all and be all of tanking, there is a method to the madness however. Let me give an example to illustrate: Someone is putting together a PuG raid, and needs another tank. Two Paladins reply, one of whom has 28.6k health, and lower avoidance, the other has 27.6k health, but much better avoidance. Who gets picked to tank? Anybody who's been in the situation before already knows it's going to be the 1st tank. The fact that the 2nd tank still has more than adequate health, and would require less healing, is not factored into the decision. Non-tanks typically don't tend to consider these things. They check out someone's health and crit immunity and call it good.
If the pug is basing their pick for a tank on HP, then that's not a pug you really want to be a part of. I was MT'ing Naxx 25 at 26k HP but again I've made a name for myself and people know I'm a good tank. Another fun one is when they hit you back asking if you are defense capped to which I respond I have the minimum amount of defense required to tank the instance proficiently. Alot of times telling a raid leader to just give you a chance works in your favor, and you find yourself getting invited back often. If you are worried about playing the I have more HP than you game then go pick up Essence of the gossamer and swap that on when they invite you to see your HP. When you zone into naxx obviously put your trinkets back right but that should help a bit with the pug situation. And honestly if you want a HP pool to make things easier then they should be inviting a druid. People need to start learning that HP does not equate to a proficient tank.

Honestly I would follow the above advice about re-gemming, we're not warriors or DK's we have a HP handicap but we make up for it with alot of other things. Up until a few days ago my main tanking kit had me at 28.4k HP when I finally dropped lavanthor's talisman and put on my monarch crab. I'd honestly recommend that trinket immensely. As you do naxx 10's work on getting repelling charge that will help with your defense until you are geared past it.

Just my two cents

Kel

dagimp007
05-29-2009, 10:43 AM
If the pug is basing their pick for a tank on HP, then that's not a pug you really want to be a part of. I was MT'ing Naxx 25 at 26k HP but again I've made a name for myself and people know I'm a good tank. Another fun one is when they hit you back asking if you are defense capped to which I respond I have the minimum amount of defense required to tank the instance proficiently. Alot of times telling a raid leader to just give you a chance works in your favor, and you find yourself getting invited back often. If you are worried about playing the I have more HP than you game then go pick up Essence of the gossamer and swap that on when they invite you to see your HP. When you zone into naxx obviously put your trinkets back right but that should help a bit with the pug situation. And honestly if you want a HP pool to make things easier then they should be inviting a druid. People need to start learning that HP does not equate to a proficient tank.

Honestly I would follow the above advice about re-gemming, we're not warriors or DK's we have a HP handicap but we make up for it with alot of other things. Up until a few days ago my main tanking kit had me at 28.4k HP when I finally dropped lavanthor's talisman and put on my monarch crab. I'd honestly recommend that trinket immensely. As you do naxx 10's work on getting repelling charge that will help with your defense until you are geared past it.

Just my two cents

Kel

Pugs go by HP cause 9/10 wow players dont take the time to look a guy up on armory or ask his avoidance

Kelstet
05-29-2009, 10:44 AM
Pugs go by HP cause 9/10 wow players dont take the time to look a guy up on armory or ask his avoidance
Point being is 1/10 times that High HP tank will succeed :)

Kel

dagimp007
05-29-2009, 10:46 AM
Point being is 1/10 times that High HP tank will succeed :)

Kel

lol... you got me there

Ryethos
05-29-2009, 11:34 AM
I find that I'm quite successful in my current tank kit, but I chalk that up to the low difficulty of Naxx. I did see Repelling Charge - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=39292) drop from Thaddius in Naxx10 this week, but I happened to be healing, so I yielded it to the OT. Hard to masterloot an item you want that much to someone else, but if you're going to lead a raid you gotta keep it fair. =)

I do have Essence of Gossamer - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37220) I keep it on all the time, so I can't use that for the HP boost for raid invites heh heh, but I like the idea, if I ever replace it I'll remember that. =)

Thanks for the replies, I'll work on my avoidance some more, and in the mean time, just keep on tanking PuG raids, and post all of my stats (even the ones that aren't requested) to anyone's raid I'm joining.

Contrite
05-29-2009, 01:41 PM
1. Drop the point in benediction and add it to improved judgment. With Divine pleas up time, and prot's mana return, mana shouldnt be an issue.
2. Drop your Righteous Defense Glyph. You have a second taunt, hand of Sanct, etc, so even if its resisted, odds are you can do something else.
Pick up the judgment Glyph.
3. Part of the Problem with this type of advice is that tanking is so damn situational. If your running exclusively with a guild that has decent healers, for example, or instances that you outgear, you could drop Divine Sacrifice (gain 3), drop your Divinity (gain 3- yes I know it results in slightly less healing to you) and spec in ret to Crusade. (adding 3 in Crusade and 3 in Conviction.) Or perhaps a more balanced spec, which I use for Ulduar 10/25 The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Alleria&cn=Contrite&gn=So+Jaded)

Kelstet
05-29-2009, 01:52 PM
2. Drop your Righteous Defense Glyph. You have a second taunt, hand of Sanct, etc, so even if its resisted, odds are you can do something else. Pick up the judgment Glyph.
Honestly I've had both RD and Hand resist without that glyph and honestly while rare, I'd use that glyph for a while for a bit of extra oomph to your taunt. But again that's personal preference to be perfectly frank.

Hopefully you can take a bit away from all suggestions and find what works and functions best for you and your given situation honestly. I find alot of times that's what I do when I am reading through and researching theory on tanking.

Kel

Ryethos
05-30-2009, 07:26 AM
1. Drop the point in benediction and add it to improved judgment. With Divine pleas up time, and prot's mana return, mana shouldnt be an issue.
2. Drop your Righteous Defense Glyph. You have a second taunt, hand of Sanct, etc, so even if its resisted, odds are you can do something else.
Pick up the judgment Glyph.
3. Part of the Problem with this type of advice is that tanking is so damn situational. If your running exclusively with a guild that has decent healers, for example, or instances that you outgear, you could drop Divine Sacrifice (gain 3), drop your Divinity (gain 3- yes I know it results in slightly less healing to you) and spec in ret to Crusade. (adding 3 in Crusade and 3 in Conviction.) Or perhaps a more balanced spec, which I use for Ulduar 10/25 The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Alleria&cn=Contrite&gn=So+Jaded)

1. I tend to agree with this suggestion, the only reason the point is in Benediction to begin with is because I only need Judgement to be on a 9 second CD to fit my rotation, I suppose the reduced CD is more valuable even though I'll probably seldom need it, simply because mana is a non-issue for Paladin tanks as you said.

2. I had originally thought about using Glyph of Judgement - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=41092) , but decided against it in favor of Glyph of Righteous Defense - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=41100) . Reason being that, as a tank, assuming you're using Seal of Vengeance / Corruption, your Judgement only will account for about 10% of the damage you deal (anyone getting a different number there?), and that's assuming a single target. So the glyph effectively increases your total damage by 1%. Compare to Glyph of Sense Undead - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43368) : only difference being the 1% is against everything. However, you do make an interesting point about having a Plan B with regard to taunting, which makes me wonder if the RD glyph is even less useful.

3. Can't see your armory, the site is down for maintenance, I'll check it out when I can, thanks for sharing. =)

Cardolan
06-01-2009, 08:53 AM
Generally speaking, you're wasting X - 53 talent points, where X is the number of talent points you have in the Protection tree. 53 gets you everything truly worthwhile - three of those are only used to allow you to access the higher tier talents (though can be situationally useful if spent properly). 6 (I'd argue 7, but I don't use the traditional 9696 rotation) of the remaining 18 points need to go into Retribution for Deflection and at least one point in Improved Judgements.

Where you put the remaining 11 or 12 points is really up to you, but as far as I'm concerned you're going to get your largest benefits from putting the full 12 into Retribution.

I'd suggest three in Heart of the Crusader, five in Conviction and three in Crusade. If you only put one point in Improved Judgements, put the remaining point in Pursuit of Justice for the slight run speed increase.

I'd replace your Glyph of Righteous Defense with Glyph of Hammer of the Righteous. For a class that excels at aoe tanking (and therefore is used for situations that require it) increasing the effectiveness of that is never a bad idea.

As far as gems go, I have always been of the opinion that stacking stamina is never a bad idea. There is a certain natural appeal to having a high amount of health. Your Armory page currently has your Holy gear, so I can't comment much on your Protection set, but I'd say stick with any stamina gems you have. Adding more stamina at the cost of socket bonuses (some of them are really poor) may even be beneficial, but obviously make sure that you aren't going to lose the bonus from your meta gem.