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icedtaa
05-26-2009, 05:10 PM
I'm a Blood DK tank,
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Darrowmere&n=Icedtaa),
Here is a link to my blood spec.
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=6&tal=0055021533130300230203101000005000000000000000 0000000000035032305000000200000000000000)
And here is my current (temporary) frost tanking spec.
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0EMZGxxxG0Ikc0Vost0xM)

I am wondering, what is a better overall DK main tank spec? I have been MTing Naxx 25 and Ulduar 25 without a problem whatsoever, I have done over 9k tps on patch, but, the AOE capability is pretty limited, I tried a frost build, and I was wondering if my runic power should be used on Rune Strikes rather than Frost Strikes, or opposite... I am new to frost tanking, Just need some help learning rotations.
My current blood tanking rotation is: DND initial ag IT>PS>HS>HS>OB and rune strike on proc, rinse and repeat and DND whenever Death runes allow it without using main runes. (I rely on instinct rather than robot clicking, I find it more fun)
I just now went frost today and do not yet know a rotation so i was using one I made up ( I haven't even tanked a raid yet, just soloed kara with it) and was only pushing ~4k tps, using some rotation that i based off of my dps rotation which is... HB BS BS FS OB FS FS using my second spec just to try it. I said I don't know an actual tanking spec, so I was trying Rune Strikes on proc aswell and not getting off some Frost Strikes what is a good frost rotation? Or is blood better?
(Btw stfu on my gear lol, our server isn't really progressed, our guild is the best on the server and have only made it to Vezax so far lol)

Feanorr
05-26-2009, 09:32 PM
I dont have a frost tanking spec but I sometime use my frost DPS spec to tank some mob; and I use the same rotation than while I dps. Our threat come from DPS only, except for DnD and RS. So what is good for DPS should be still good for tanking.
The only difference is RS (I dont think DnD would be better than one and a half OB, for single target tanking); since I got it macroed on every move, I just use it whenever it's up and FS when I got more than 60 RP.

About your frost tanking spec:
- you should really take KM; it's a huge threat increase, even more as tank than DPS (cause our crit chance is lower as tank)
- Runic power mastery is a kind of a waste, you shouldnt get to 100 RP, even less 130 (the standard frost DPS build ot it, but mostly because there isnt anything else to take at tier 1 as a DPS)
- same for unholy command; you already got 2 taunt, it's enough.
- Improved Icy talons: it's not really a must have as a tank; especially if you got a shaman for the haste totem.

So my frost tank spec would look like that:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0EMZhxx0AbI0cziost0xh)

I took hungering cold instead Deathchill, but both are exchangeable. Hugering wold allow you to spread frost fever in case your HB miss (what will happen without Virulence).
I also took Morbidity for better AOE threat; with HB on a 10sec timer, I dont think it's enough alone.

Satorri
05-27-2009, 06:44 AM
I have a few things to offer (*pause for surprised gasps*).

Your Blood spec is, for lack of a better term, wonky. You have several talents that are doing very little for you and you're missing a couple that would do loads for you.

From Unholy:
Virulence = this is buffing nothing at all for a blood tank but Death Coil and that is such a minor contribution that you can drop these talent points elsewhere and notice very little change.

Unholy Command = this is the equivalent of talenting taunt. It is only actually being used if you need to regularly taunt things back on you, and if you're doing that you have bigger problems. The only PvE* use I've seen to really put this to use so far is Malygos.

Dirge = I can appreciate that you're getting bonus RP from DS and PS, but as Blood you really don't have much to do with it but DC (your normal rotation otherwise should be plenty more than you need to use RS every time its available. To get this you're also dipping way into Unholy (see Unholy Command and Virulence above) and these points could be put to much better use.

(Blood) Bloodworms = this is a nice little pick me up for health, but it is also a hard sell in raids. The health they return does not scale well, and in any situation where there is the least bit of aoe which is everywhere in Ulduar, they will die faster than they spawn.

What you don't have that could really be helping:
(Frost) Nerves of Cold Steel = I'm going to add this with a big asterisk and guess you don't usually dual wield tank like you are on the armory? In your dual wield set you have spectacular avoidance (not ideal blood gearing, but strong survival nonetheless) and you could make very good use of it. You're way below hit cap with that set though so this talent would go a long way and be a signficant buff to your threat if you continue dual wielding.

Bloody Strikes and Subversion = each of these represents a HUGE buff to HS threat, and Bloody Strikes buffs your BB's as well which is a very valuable aoe tool for threat. You have HS and whether you are dual wielding or 2h'ing it these talents will be a major deal for buffing your threat and encouraging the Blood tree's synergistic mechanisms.

Bloody Vengeance = this is at the core of Blood's synergy. Used with Subversion, Dark Conviction, and Imp DS this stacks very rapidly to be a constant +9% to your damage/threat. This is a huge threat value.

Blood-gorged = once upon a time I questioned the value of this talent, but since they made the switch-around in 3.1 this has become a massive buff. As a blood-centric tank the vast majority of your damage will be physical, as such the always-on 10% armor pen is a very noticeable buff to your damage. If you gear to all that the Blood tree has to offer, the higher your health the easier it is to keep up the +10% all damage as well. If you want to continue to dual wield, this talent is key. It will significantly buff your white damage which will buff your Necrosis very nicely as well.

Imp Death Strike = this talent now buffs the healing of DS by 50%. Since the healing is based on max health and not weapon damage this will still work very well with dual wielding, and the other buffs will play very nicely with Bloody Vengeance and the DS's you'll be using to get DRM conversions.

In short, here's how I'd custom tailor your tree to make it a powerhouse for dual wield tanking:
Blood Dual-Wield Tank (http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=6&tal=0355101533003313200023101050005003000000000000 0000000000005230003000000000000000000000)

Blood is not fantastic for aoe threat next to Unholy, or Frost, but it can do the job if you do it well. Fae has good suggestions on Frost, but I'll give you one maxim for DK tanking:

RS is always THE most efficient use of your RP for threat. No other ability can compare. For Frost, though, FS is always worth using when you have more than 60 RP (more than 50 if you glyph it), though it is best fit into rune blackouts for maximum effect.

Warscar
05-29-2009, 12:40 PM
I'm a Frost tank - The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Cho%27gall&n=Cryptscar)

I'm forced to pick up IIT because Enhance Shammies are lame. If I could free up those points I'd be able to push a little more threat, but oh well.

I've never tried Blood but it seems to be more of a single target tanking build. Since I OT mostly, I like Frost because of the range/aoe I get from Howling Blast. The only thing that I MT is Vezax, and I haven't had problems holding aggro so far.

Rotation is pretty simple. I use Glyph of Disease so I only touch IT+PS once to get the diseases up, then keep them refreshed with Pestilence. I only use FS if KM procs, or if I have close to 100 RP. I try to save as much RP as possible for Rune Strikes.

Of course when Freezing Fog procs I use HB. Sometimes, if KM procs and I have low RP, I will use HB also. I don't really have a set rotation, I just go by whatever I think the best move is at the given moment.

Hayate
05-29-2009, 06:11 PM
For Blood Tank why don't you try out this Spec: The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=6&tal=0355320530003303201020131350305000000000000000 0000000000005230000000000000000000000000)

Satorri
05-29-2009, 07:49 PM
Fine spec, but for Scent of Blood, extra RP is kind of wasted on Blood.

Hayate
05-29-2009, 07:52 PM
Yeah, just thinking between that or Sudden Doom.

MouseDK
05-30-2009, 12:57 AM
Sudden Doom does not entice me at all since 3.1

Satorri
05-30-2009, 04:52 AM
Sudden Doom is fine, particularly if you use HS heavily, it does carry its weight for a threat buff, but only that.

I can't see the spec as Armory is down, but if I recall correctly, you could also take Imp Rune Tap (zomg hot heals) or Spell Deflection (avoids a lot more damage than you may think).

Terrorgood
05-30-2009, 05:58 AM
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0EGZhxx0AbIoc0iost0x:Tak0VM)

This is my current frost tank build and it has been working wonders for both AoE heavy fights and Single Target Threat. Hope this helps!

Esch
05-30-2009, 08:46 AM
Unholy Command = this is the equivalent of talenting taunt. It is only actually being used if you need to regularly taunt things back on you, and if you're doing that you have bigger problems. The only PvE* use I've seen to really put this to use so far is Malygos.

I'm singling this out as I'm finding CoI/Death Grip to be amazing on Ignis kiting. I've considered picking up Unholy Command as it enables me to get adds out of raid/off my kiting partner quickly and into flames or water. Specialized, definitely, but something that makes the encounter a little more sane.

Satorri
05-31-2009, 06:15 AM
Nice application! Like Maly, not required, but a smart use of an available mechanic. Personally I still nitpick over every point in my build and this one falls below the broad-use threshold. =)

Hayate
05-31-2009, 11:31 AM
After Reading many post, I thought Dual Wield is not as viable as 2H, Consider almost all DK physical Damage Spell is base on Weapon Damage.

Satorri
05-31-2009, 12:53 PM
You lose some damage (about 35%) from your -strike attacks but you gain a decent margin from auto-attacks. It also affords other benefits like carrying tanking weapons. Some talents and effects do better with dual wielding (Necrosis, BcB being at the forefront) though they only do because they're buffing those same auto-attacks.

There's nothing that makes dual wielding particularly better or worse than a 2h, it just has different priorities, capacities, and potentials.

coe
06-03-2009, 06:42 AM
I'm singling this out as I'm finding CoI/Death Grip to be amazing on Ignis kiting. I've considered picking up Unholy Command as it enables me to get adds out of raid/off my kiting partner quickly and into flames or water. Specialized, definitely, but something that makes the encounter a little more sane.

I'm doing Ignis adds alone in frost tanking spec, without Unholy Command. Taunt, Icy Touch, blood strikes to have death runes, chaining Chains of Ice (that's why you need death runes ;)). When he is molten, death grip into water and wait for next Construct (Mage should shatter him when you move away). When you'll need to death grip next Construct, your Death Grip will be back again. You should have only one active Construct at a time, unless you'll get into pot ;)

Satorri
06-04-2009, 06:01 AM
I don't think he was saying it's required, but it is a help. I don't use Unholy Command either. =) Though I've also swapped positions to tanking Ignis since I'm much easier to heal through the variable beatings (and I can AMS through Scorch and Geysers to keep from stacking that on nasty melee).