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View Full Version : Help with presenting a new idea to my guild



Norik
05-24-2009, 05:51 AM
In Ciders podcast about guild mechanization he puts out the suggestion of giving small amounts of DKP to those that help keep the guild bank stocked with consumables/crafting mats/ec.

Has anyone tried this with success?
What amounts of DKP did you use and how did you determine values?
Were you able to automate the process and if so how?

Thank You

Karatheya
05-24-2009, 09:37 AM
I've done this with the EP/GP loot system; it's a bit easier there because EP isn't directly used to purchase gear. Giving reward EP doesn't boost your purchasing power directly.

As to ratios, I give 1k EP per 15 minutes of raiding, 5k EP per progression boss kill and 1000 per farm boss kill. I give 1000 EP for the mats for a stack of fish feasts (which is about 35 minutes fishing in WG).

So an hour's raiding is worth between 7k and 14k EP and the mat reward is 1k, which seems to work fairly well.

Because this allows people who have lots of gold to basically purchase loot, you might need to add a limt on how often people can do the turnin. If you're very lucky, people will actually hit the limit and you'll never have to worry for mats again. 3-5 per week is probably a good limit.


Whether you can automate it depends on how your DKP system records earnings. I imagine if you're using eqDKP or similar you're going to have to just do a manual adjustment with a reason. Anything more would probably require some sort of mod, and the last time I looked, eqDKP's code wasn't terribly easy to hack.

Lyco
05-25-2009, 06:00 AM
Depends. Some barely have time to farm for repairbills, let alone guildbank.
Why should those with a more active social life, but still raid perfectly, be "punished" or denied loot just because others stock the gbank more.

I'd be very carefull with handing out DKP for tiny things.

loquatious
05-25-2009, 07:02 AM
Depends. Some barely have time to farm for repairbills, let alone guildbank.
Why should those with a more active social life, but still raid perfectly, be "punished" or denied loot just because others stock the gbank more.

I'd be very carefull with handing out DKP for tiny things.

If I have a very very active social life and can only raid 1 night a week why should I be punished because you can raid 3? Contribution = reward. Farming is a significant contribution that benefits the raid so why not rewad it?

Seems like a no brainer to me, its just setting a fair reward/effort ratio.

Roarc
05-25-2009, 07:49 AM
If player A raids 3 times the amount of player B (given he does nothing for the guild during raid-time) I see nothing strange in player A thus getting 3 times as much back (in general that means gear). This of course has to be put in relative figures.

Raiding for 3 hours or grinding mats for the guild for 3 hours should in my eyes be rewarded similarly given you aren't having players "breaking" the system doing this. Raiding can be motivated to give more DKP since there is a cost in that more than time (repairs).

In my previous guild we had only DKP (or "RP") for raid time and boss kills you participated in. We had a highest-bidder-wins system on loot. In my current guild you get DKP even if sitting as back-up on a raid night and a fixed bid / priority system on loot. I understand and can support both systems. In the end reward ≈ effort made. I would however personally promote a very simple yet slightly more unfair system over a complex and "millimeter even" system. The later will break at some point anyway so to me there is not need to over complicate things.

Loot councils for instance have their role, given the problem here is that the system is a group of people. These can be biast or seens as such but the guild thus turning the guild against these people instead of turning them against a set of rules.

Tricky things these… :)

Regards
Roarc

Gromblee
05-25-2009, 08:22 AM
No reward for farming mats "tiny things" might cramp your style when you are raiding on all your own buff food 'cause nobody bothered to farm mats for guild. My guild mates are very generous to the guild bank as am I .... the rewards of this are free gems and enchants at guild expense that is only possible due to the generosity of guild members. Raiding is the end result of being prepared, if you do not help the guild prepare for a raid you are just riding on the shoulders of others. Farming mats should be rewarded by the guild because raiding depends on it.

Molohk
05-25-2009, 08:42 AM
Depends. Some barely have time to farm for repairbills, let alone guildbank.
Why should those with a more active social life, but still raid perfectly, be "punished" or denied loot just because others stock the gbank more.

I'd be very carefull with handing out DKP for tiny things.
Or rather, why should'nt there be a reward for the player who farmed the mats for the fish feast you're eating for free?

Norik
05-25-2009, 09:53 AM
Good discussion here.
I tend to lean towards the side of the "more contribution" = "more benefit".
Myself I grind my own mats as I don't eat the fish feast, I use expertise food. Which means I have to keep up my cooking dailies and other dailies to cover repairs and mats just to keep myself going.
But I do still contribute by going fishing in my down time to help keep the stock of fish feast in the gbank.

Now please don't take this as I started the whole thread as a way I could present something to benefit myself to my guild. We are going through other issues at the moment and I am trying to come up with ways to liven things up and give people something to work forward to.

bludwork
05-25-2009, 10:25 AM
depends on the guild. Personally I don't believe in DKP as a motivational tool because all you're doing is turning your guild into an "epic vendor" builds no loyalty and at some point everyone comes to the realization they are just playing for DKP rather than enjoyment. The real question is why do you need to motivate your guild and why are they not motivated to begin with?

On another note I found the biggest motivation was recruiting fresh blood.

Satrina
05-25-2009, 12:17 PM
It's a good idea to reward people who contribute above and beyond actual raid participation. Those people who have an active social life surely appreciate that fish feasts always appear, that there are flasks available, or whatever. The key is to make sure the rewards do not/can not give a massive advantage or people will start to game the system, because people will be people.

Alent
05-25-2009, 12:59 PM
In Ciders podcast about guild mechanization he puts out the suggestion of giving small amounts of DKP to those that help keep the guild bank stocked with consumables/crafting mats/ec.

Has anyone tried this with success?
What amounts of DKP did you use and how did you determine values?
Were you able to automate the process and if so how?

Thank You

I watched this destroy a burning crusade raid guild because a mage with no job sold a sunwell JC pattern that dropped in a farm pug for 28 hearts of darkness, and donated somewhere in the vicinity of 50 hearts of darkness (god only knows where he got the rest) to the guild bank for literally ~more dkp than the entire guild combined~.

He then proceeded to pick choice gear for people's exact DKP +1.

A few people, myself included, got sick of being stepped on and quit.

Make sure if you do reward people, that it doesn't give a colossal advantage. In fact, if it goes past +5%, you've done something wrong.