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View Full Version : Shield Slam vs Revenge



Soyboy
05-22-2009, 10:05 PM
Ok, now my problem is with this order of operations here. Now from a TPS stand point which should i use first if they are both available shield slam or revenge?

Bluepepper
05-22-2009, 10:23 PM
You'd want to go with Shield Slam first then revenge following after.

Mahntor
05-22-2009, 10:34 PM
Reason for this is not only the bigger tps of the shield slam, but also because if you use shield slam, then revenge, it has a chance of proccing sword and board, giving you another shield slam right after.

Soyboy
05-22-2009, 10:50 PM
Ok, following question... Revenge does more dmg and a stun which causes threat as long as a free heroic strike if your glyphed for it... so with that said will the 1 shield slam you be the equivalent to the dmg bonus of your revenge along with the following free attack you get and a stun?

Damonvile
05-22-2009, 11:09 PM
Ok, following question... Revenge does more dmg and a stun which causes threat as long as a free heroic strike if your glyphed for it... so with that said will the 1 shield slam you be the equivalent to the dmg bonus of your revenge along with the following free attack you get and a stun?

Like someone has already said...revenge can proc SS so if SS is already up then you can't proc ss ss+ rev+ss > rev + ss + dev/conc ( if it's up ) and that's why. You still revenge either way but useing SS first gives you a chance of getting 2 shield slams faster.


Never ever use revenge if SS is up ......unless you're UA spec then you shouldn't even be asking :P

Soyboy
05-22-2009, 11:39 PM
That just doesnt seem right to me... the time in between the revenge and ss cooldowns are 5 seconds and 6 seconds so your telling me you will shield slam then revenge and may or my not get a proc that you are rlying on? Im saying if you use both of those right after eachother if 1 misses or it doesnt proc 2 of your highest tps spells are down for 5 seconds? Now is that actually even worth it when you can pop the revenge get sword and boared if your lucky use it then by the time you use it revenge will be back up and you can do it all over rinse and repeat?

Pluekiller
05-22-2009, 11:55 PM
Have you seen this thread?
Ideal Warrior Single Target Threat Rotation (http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/41426-ideal-warrior-single-target-threat-rotation.html)

Deefunk
05-22-2009, 11:59 PM
if you hit revenge and then sword and board procs and you sheild slam, you get 2 hits in 2 seconds. you are now waiting 5-6 secs to use them again.

if you hit Shield slam, one second global cooldown and hit revenge and get a swond and board proc, you refresh the cooldown on shield slam and can hit it again immediately.. so in the matter of 3 seconds you can land three hits vs. 2 in 6 seconds using the two abilities. Even if you dont get a sword and board proc, you are still getting the same thing in the first scenario.

Damonvile
05-23-2009, 08:18 AM
That just doesnt seem right to me... the time in between the revenge and ss cooldowns are 5 seconds and 6 seconds so your telling me you will shield slam then revenge and may or my not get a proc that you are rlying on? Im saying if you use both of those right after eachother if 1 misses or it doesnt proc 2 of your highest tps spells are down for 5 seconds? Now is that actually even worth it when you can pop the revenge get sword and boared if your lucky use it then by the time you use it revenge will be back up and you can do it all over rinse and repeat?

First of all if your attacks are being missed or dodged your gear has other issues that need fixing, or you're tanking a lvl of content that threat isn't an issue anyway.

Second.... what you said here makes no sense to me. S&B can not proc if SS isn't on cool down. It isn't a lingering effect it just resets the cooldown of SS. Devastate can also proc S&B. You ALWAYS want ss on cooldown so you can get as many S&B procs as you can. SS also has a higher threat component than rev so even though rev will sometimes hit for more it doesn't do more threat with a normal build.

Hayate
05-23-2009, 09:50 AM
You should open up with a Concussion Blow, then worry about Shield Slam, Shield Slam require way too much rage (24 rages with talents) on Start, and Concussion blow only require 12 rage, on top of that, always use your longer cool down ability first, so you can use it again sooner.

Edit; SS is 17 rage, but usually you won't get enough till you actually recieve first hit form the mob.

zacsafus
05-23-2009, 10:46 AM
in pretty sure that SS is less than 24 rage with talents, i think it get get to around 17 rage? not sure but definately lower than 24, (I think it starts at 20).
SS is by far the best threat move a warrior has and should be used first in a rotation in the vast majority of situations.

Warlikes
05-23-2009, 10:52 AM
Soyboy
I see one thing wrong with what your saying. Revenge should not be doing more damage than your shield slam. You may want to go back and look at your talents if it is.

Hayate
I am going to guess you have not actually played a warrior in a really long time. Shield slam now costs 20 rage and 17 with talents.

Dhalphir
05-23-2009, 08:10 PM
Revenge does do more damage than Shield Slam once you reach certain AP levels, as it scales with AP and Shield Slam does not. But Shield Slam still does more threat.

Rampart
05-24-2009, 12:34 AM
Don't forget about the Glyph of Blocking. Your first shield slam gives you a bit more mitigation as well, not to mention harder Shield Slams.

Kazeyonoma
05-25-2009, 12:08 AM
glyph of blocking procs before your shield slam actually when you press it, so even from the first shield slam, you've already got the 10% block gain.

Dhalphir
05-25-2009, 03:39 PM
Is that confirmed? I've always felt my subsequent shield slams did more damage than the first.

dyls
05-25-2009, 04:03 PM
glyph of blocking procs before your shield slam actually when you press it, so even from the first shield slam, you've already got the 10% block gain.

This would make sense - I've seen a post somewhere that claims that this glyph is bugged and doesn't work at all, and had been tested - but if the above is true, that could well have misled the poster if he didn't realise it.

If it is true, then an extra 10% permanent increase to your shield slam (and not just 2 / 3 or so) truly is godly.

DoubleSidedTape
05-26-2009, 03:55 AM
Is that confirmed? I've always felt my subsequent shield slams did more damage than the first.

That's because you have more stacks of sunder armor up for later shield slams.

Denaro
05-26-2009, 04:10 AM
prior on skills:

1.Shieldslam
2.Revenge
3.Devestate

all combined with HS.

Problem solved

Berzerker
05-26-2009, 05:08 AM
S&B can not proc if SS isn't on cool down. It isn't a lingering effect it just resets the cooldown of SS. Devastate can also proc S&B.

SnB can actually proc even when Shield Slam is off cooldown. It simply makes the next Shield Slam cost 0 rage, as resetting the cooldown would have no effect in that scenario.

That said, Shield Slam still has priority over Revenge as stated by others.

Hayate
05-29-2009, 05:11 PM
Soyboy
Hayate
I am going to guess you have not actually played a warrior in a really long time. Shield slam now costs 20 rage and 17 with talents.

Just Haven't read the tooltips for a long time, I have it turn off.

Kerchunk
05-29-2009, 06:04 PM
Revenge should not be doing more damage than your shield slam. You may want to go back and look at your talents if it is.

My Shield Slam averages 2200 and 6000 critical.
My Revenge averages 2500 and 6700 critical.

If you're stacking Block Value, obviously your SS might pull ahead... but you shouldn't be stacking Block Value in any serious set.


the time in between the revenge and ss cooldowns are 5 seconds and 6 seconds so your telling me you will shield slam then revenge and may or my not get a proc that you are rlying on?

Bottom line Soyboy is you are underestimating Sword and Board. It's not just "some proc" that we're "relying on" it is the single most important source of Protection Warrior threat in the game. Period. The more Sword and Board procs you can trigger and take advantage of in a given fight, the higher your TPS and DPS will be.

Using Revenge while SS is available is deliberately gimping your threat and damage by denying yourself the benefit of a potential S&B proc.

Warlikes
05-30-2009, 12:38 PM
Ya I was wrong on revenge doing less. I usually have my combat log just showing incoming damage and had not noticed that my revenge was now out damaging my shield slam. Shield slam has been the big hitter for so long its an interesting change.