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Carmaine
05-21-2009, 04:02 PM
So I've been reading from here and elitistjerks, and a lot of things I've seen is that for a warrior or paladin, you want to reach unhittable (102.4%), now, I have hit 80 about 6 weeks ago and got decent gear, but I can only hit 81.2% total avoidance with 27k HP unbuffed. That's with optimizing my gems/enchants/everything to get the best avoidance. Some other people told me to focus on stamina, and after looking at my gear and what it would look in stamina, I'd gain maybe 1.5-2k health, for a good loost of 7% avoidance.

As a prot warrior, do I focus on avoidance or health?

PS. I was also told recently that I should focus on health until I have better gear to spec into avoidance.

EDIT: Why I chose avoidance is mainly because I'd rather avoid 5% of overall incoming DPS than being able to take a single additional hit. With raid buffs, I still hit 34-35k Health. Just an example from a purely physical boss like Patchwerk in 25man and comparing him to a DK tank that had like 60% avoidance, his HP spiked down a lot, but his max hp gave some time for the healer to heal him, while on my part, I blocked/dodge/avoid/missed most of his hits. So with a good heals like a drood which would keep me topped off almost at all time, this would be better. Also, in case of a purely magical boss, avoidance means crap and you only want max hp.... Also, for heroics, it's ridiculous, healers whine that I don't receive damage because I avoid too much :P

Kerchunk
05-21-2009, 04:51 PM
So I've been reading from here and elitistjerks, and a lot of things I've seen is that for a warrior or paladin, you want to reach unhittable (102.4%)

Hmm, no. You don't. Where did you read this? Can you link the particular threads? Unhittable is not a realistic or desirable goal for a tank in WotLK. It's possible but not without sacrificing so many other stats that you basically become a gimmick.


As a prot warrior, do I focus on avoidance or health?

Neither. There are some fights in which one edges out the other due to the type, frequency or degree of incoming damage but for the most part you want high health and healthy avoidance for progression tanking. No reason to "focus" on one or the other.

Personally I run ~32k Health and 80% Avoidance right now.

Harimella
05-22-2009, 01:54 AM
Personally I run ~32k Health and 80% Avoidance right now.O'rly?

Block is not avoidance, it's mitigation. There is no way you can get 80% avoidance.

Gomarac
05-22-2009, 07:51 AM
Man someone is stackin that parry/dodge o.o

Carmaine
05-22-2009, 03:44 PM
Hmm, no. You don't. Where did you read this? Can you link the particular threads? Unhittable is not a realistic or desirable goal for a tank in WotLK. It's possible but not without sacrificing so many other stats that you basically become a gimmick.

From what I understand, it makes you parry/dodge/miss or block 100% of physical attack, how is that a gimmick? Also, it is quite reachable, I am at 82% with shitty gears, I used a spreadsheet to calculate a theorical avoidance total and it can be reached, and still have a LOT of hp because of gears. Now I understand that blocking isn't all that great because it only reduces the damage and does not negate it, but it's still better than getting a full hit, and critical blocking helps a lot in the matter. Also, from the builds of unhittable, the goal is to hit 102.4% first, and then reduce the shield block rating for higher dodge/parry/miss (def rating, mostly), and keep that ratio. Just take kologarn for instance, his Overhead smash can be parried/dodge and blocked. Now, if it's blocked ,you NEED a critical block or else you get the debuff because some damage goes through, but else, it does not apply, so an unhittable has a pretty high chance on not even needing the off-tank for rotation (and thus can allow a much smoother ride since the OT won't have to worry about taunting while the adds are there). Also, WAY less pressure on the healers.




Neither. There are some fights in which one edges out the other due to the type, frequency or degree of incoming damage but for the most part you want high health and healthy avoidance for progression tanking. No reason to "focus" on one or the other.

Personally I run ~32k Health and 80% Avoidance right now.

And yeah, it's good to be in the middle to be good in both type of fights (mostly physical and mostly magical). Magical fights only need capped def to avoid criticals from spells and uber high HP, while for physical, it's better to have higher avoidance (capped, if ever so possible), so I've been thinking of making 2 sets of armor. One for uber health, one for uber avoidance. Then again, just from the gear that gives high avoidance, you usually get a very high amount of health too. And magical damage based fights is usually more in the hands of the healer and how fast he can heal over how much health the tank has. Shield wall and last stand can always be used if I am in trouble, enraged regen (although better healing with uber health).

My main worry is that in all games I've played (and I've played a lot), focusing on being average makes you average, but focusing on a type will make you much better than an average in many situations, and worse or equal (depending on how heavy the fight is and healers) in others.

Deefunk
05-22-2009, 04:05 PM
From what I understand, it makes you parry/dodge/miss or block 100% of physical attack, how is that a gimmick? Also, it is quite reachable, I am at 82% with shitty gears, I used a spreadsheet to calculate a theorical avoidance total and it can be reached, and still have a LOT of hp because of gears. Now I understand that blocking isn't all that great because it only reduces the damage and does not negate it, but it's still better than getting a full hit, and critical blocking helps a lot in the matter. Also, from the builds of unhittable, the goal is to hit 102.4% first, and then reduce the shield block rating for higher dodge/parry/miss (def rating, mostly), and keep that ratio. Just take kologarn for instance, his Overhead smash can be parried/dodge and blocked. Now, if it's blocked ,you NEED a critical block or else you get the debuff because some damage goes through, but else, it does not apply, so an unhittable has a pretty high chance on not even needing the off-tank for rotation (and thus can allow a much smoother ride since the OT won't have to worry about taunting while the adds are there). Also, WAY less pressure on the healers.




And yeah, it's good to be in the middle to be good in both type of fights (mostly physical and mostly magical). Magical fights only need capped def to avoid criticals from spells and uber high HP, while for physical, it's better to have higher avoidance (capped, if ever so possible), so I've been thinking of making 2 sets of armor. One for uber health, one for uber avoidance. Then again, just from the gear that gives high avoidance, you usually get a very high amount of health too. And magical damage based fights is usually more in the hands of the healer and how fast he can heal over how much health the tank has. Shield wall and last stand can always be used if I am in trouble, enraged regen (although better healing with uber health).

My main worry is that in all games I've played (and I've played a lot), focusing on being average makes you average, but focusing on a type will make you much better than an average in many situations, and worse or equal (depending on how heavy the fight is and healers) in others.

Have you given a thought to your threat generation? Outside of gimick fights you are going to find yourself rage starved badly from taking no incoming dmg by avoiding the majority of hits and not able to use abilities to generate enough threat to stay ahead of geared dpsers.

And I wouldnt say its way less pressure on healers. Its more like your health is going to be very spiky from dmg. and with raid bosses hitting as hard as they do now, if they cant top you off before another hit lands, youre probably going to die.

Carmaine
05-22-2009, 08:04 PM
Yeah, I've chatted with a few tanks, and apparently it's really what Kerchunk said, average is the way to go. I'll just go with the gears.

Damonvile
05-22-2009, 09:33 PM
Just take kologarn for instance, his Overhead smash can be parried/dodge and blocked. Now, if it's blocked ,you NEED a critical block or else you get the debuff because some damage goes through, but else, it does not apply, so an unhittable has a pretty high chance on not even needing the off-tank for rotation (and thus can allow a much smoother ride since the OT won't have to worry about taunting while the adds are there). Also, WAY less pressure on the healers.



:)