View Full Version : Confirmation in my Weapon Upgrade

05-21-2009, 10:01 AM

I've been stuck using: Colossal Skull-Clad Cleaver - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37852) for arms because Axe spec blows sword spec out of the water (I have Claymore of watever from naxx 10).

Then last night this dropped in our 10 man runs:
Relentless Edge - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=45311)

I won the roll and snurched that puppy right up and stuck Berserking on it (ret pally fronted the mat costs).

But Then i realized since it's a polearm, it is really fast. I told myself that DPS is all that matters and did the calculations and figured there's no way this CAN'T be an upgrade to me. The only major drawback I'm seeing now is that my expertise is low because I was previously relying on my Orc Racial to get me expertise capped for Melee DPS. So i'll probably have to ditch around 3 of my 16 Armor Pen Gems for 3 16 Expertise Gems.

So the break down is basically:

90 Str
28 haste
5 expertise ~ 41.125 expertise rating or you can see it as my regemming which would fix this expertise gain, but essentially give the axe 48 ArPen instead.

11 Agi
17 Sta
212 AP
76 Crit
25.7 DPS

I didn't make some sorta hidden stupid mistake by taking this thing right?

Muffin Man
05-21-2009, 11:29 AM
25 dps is a lot.

Since Arms only get a +4% str multiplier, even with Kings the Polearm ends up having more total AP.

It's funny that they both have haste on them... especially since I was under the impression that Ferals aren't effected by haste (sorry if I'm wrong, I don't mean to derail the thread).

Anyways, the polearm still has more weapon damage than the Axe despite being .2 seconds faster (it's got that much more dps) that all your specials will be hitting harder anyways which is usually what people are worried about with fast weapons.

Hopefully that's confirmation that you made the right choice.

Personally I've gone a different route than you and Lizana, I've been stacking crit and your polearm has plenty of it. I've found that high crit for rolling a continuous deep wound throught a boss fight is pretty effective (kinda sucks when the boss has phases that clear debuffs though like Mimiron/XT).

05-21-2009, 02:23 PM
Yeah, various players have been using different stat stacking methods, myself and Lizana are going balls to walls ArPen and It's shown nice numbers for me and him. Most players are still stacking STR due to the ever changing mechanics of ArP and it works out for them, and then the tried and true crit stacking for 3.0 Arms seems to have its own benefits too. I think all of this is true only because we have all reached a certain "gear minimum" so to speak. We all break X amount of AP and Y amount of crit, and we're all basically hit and expertise capped. So from here, there's variation as to which stat will yield higher results.

Depending on how you weight your SEP values, different stats will move you in different ways. Definitely going the deep wound crit path would seem to be the total opposite of the ArP route since ArP doesn't benefit bleeds at all (which is intriguing since Arms does have a lot of bleed effects thanks to DW and Rend).

But back on topic, thanks for the advice, i figured the 212 ap > 90 str + str modifiers so that's nice, I just hate having to regem some of my fresh ArP gems with Expertise already =( Why couldn't it have been a darn axe! I'm gonna go ahead and guess though that with a 3.2 speed weapon, I'm gonna be swimming in rage that I can't dump fast enough because of being GCD hindered as Arms. But I am 60/11 pvp spec'd right now so that's more HS and less Splam.


Muffin Man
05-22-2009, 01:22 AM
I've actually been curious if it was possible for a 2H to be fast enough that HS is better than Slam.... I guess you can let us know =p.

I take back what I said about DWs... after reading http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f177/40601-rolling-ticks-deep-wounds.html I realize I've fallen into the fallacy of thinking deep wounds was somehow giving more damage than you put into it. When actually, your deep wound damage doesn't change if you chain them or let them fall off =\. Oh well, back to the drawing board. Like you said about dps minimums though, I think I'm barely there for AP and Crit so I didn't go too far into the stacking crit.

Edit: Oh right, since you're armory seems a little off, I forgot to ask, any chance you could swap Improved Execute or something for Weapon Mastery? Or were you specing into that already.

05-22-2009, 04:24 AM
Well, gotta take into account that HS skips a white damage for some yellow damage. While HS would do great damage, and even more so if it's a fast weapon (The + to weapon damage won't change), you'd end up fast with not enough rage to use specials. Now for slam, it's great because it does not reset the auto-attack sequence, so you still do white damage, thus ever more so incoming rage. I used to use HS when I had 70+ rage, but I prefer to just spam slam now. First off, it's more manageable, I don't cut my incoming rage (Think that with HS you actually lose the Rage from the white hit + the rage used by HS - glyph if you crit). Second, with sudden death execute that procs quite often, it's pretty rare you'll get to the point where you need to start dumping excess rage.

On a side note about Deep wound, it's nice, but not that great if you ask me. I use a crit build, hit capped, and more often than not I'll crit chain like a mad man and it will only tick when I am on my slam spamming because all skills are on CD. It can be great on an ArPen build though, since less crits means it will tick more for it's duration.

05-22-2009, 10:01 AM
Upgrade or not, I think you'll drop it the first time ironsoul or stormedge drop.

05-22-2009, 01:11 PM
I don't typically raid 10man with my guild, and since ironsoul drops early in the instance, I definitely won't be on for it to drop, guess i could pug for it, but I like axe/polearm spec better than maces..

And @Muffin Man ?! I need weapon Mastery because of my low expertise unfortunately =T

Muffin Man
05-22-2009, 01:36 PM
Oh, that's unfortunate. I was assuming you were also wearing pvp gear when you mentioned you had a pvp spec heh.

Well then... have i got the answer for you! Worldcarver - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=45165) (assuming you can pry it away from DK's since this is looks like ID 2.0 to me)

05-22-2009, 04:40 PM
Well i have actually dropped arms all together with the recent cap added to ARP, I was well over the cap and didnt want to regem all my stuff, so now i am actually fury spec with capped arp with trinket proc to see how it works out dps wise..

05-22-2009, 04:44 PM
I've actually been curious if it was possible for a 2H to be fast enough that HS is better than Slam.... I guess you can let us know =p.

2.2 speed from my testing....

05-23-2009, 10:20 PM
Get the 1850 PVP axe. It's better for arms PVE than anything but worldcarver, I think, and even that's debatable since expertise is a dime a dozen. The 2350 axe, if you're able to get it, is BIS for both PVE and PVP.

But yeah, if you don't PVP much, then your options are more limited. GG blizzard!

05-24-2009, 11:59 PM
luckily i pvp a lot, and believe my 3v3 team can break 1850 in a good nights time.