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View Full Version : Understanding "Gauntlets of the Iron Furnace"



chun
05-18-2009, 10:54 AM
I was running an ulduar 10 yesterday, and
Gauntlets of the Iron Furnace - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft (http://www.wowwiki.com/Gauntlets_of_the_Iron_Furnace) dropped.

+48 def is nice.
+56 dodge is nice.
But then there is +43 armor penetration. !?!

Is armor penetration now going to be a threat stat?

I got the piece since no one else was interested, and am trying to wrap
my brain around how I would use this piece of gear. Any suggestions/input,
or is this just a mis-itemized piece?

cheers, and ty.

Esch
05-18-2009, 10:59 AM
For a paladin, junk.

For a warrior, mebbe if you need a pseudo OT to shift to pure dps (or vice versa).

For a DK, this are hawt. The Rune Strike mechanic is a physical attack, which buffs the threat component (by negating armor, increasing damage). Note the def/dodge also fit the DK preferences instead of Ulduar's SBR/SBV gear elsewhere.

If I didn't already have tier 8.5, I'ld consider these, but I expect these to get either DE'ed or picked up by a tank needing the def/dodge/stamina upgrade.

Molohk
05-18-2009, 11:00 AM
Well, all "dps stats" are technically "threat stats". The value of ArPen obviously depends on your class and spec, and what you're wearing now, and in any case it is most likely not your ideal threat stat. I think Blizz got a bit carried away with adding ArPen into itemization here.

Esch
05-18-2009, 11:14 AM
Well, all "dps stats" are technically "threat stats". The value of ArPen obviously depends on your class and spec, and what you're wearing now, and in any case it is most likely not your ideal threat stat. I think Blizz got a bit carried away with adding ArPen into itemization here.

ArP got buffed notably in 3.1, and it's still being sorted out on the value to DPS/Threat, IMO. Given that Rune Strike is (effectively) the only spammable, "High Threat" ability every DK has, it makes these gloves more useful to DKs as a class than warriors. Warriors have alternatives to Heroic Strike, though it's still as solid option.

There's also the DPS OT aspect, which I find myself in at times, and these may fit such a 'specific role' set if I picked them up.

Kerg
05-18-2009, 11:34 AM
I don't think Blizzard intended anything with this, because IMO it is most likely a type-o. I look for them to be fixed in an upcoming patch, and changed to Hit or Expertise or another tanking stat.

Molohk
05-18-2009, 11:40 AM
ArP got buffed notably in 3.1, and it's still being sorted out on the value to DPS/Threat, IMO. Given that Rune Strike is (effectively) the only spammable, "High Threat" ability every DK has, it makes these gloves more useful to DKs as a class than warriors. Warriors have alternatives to Heroic Strike, though it's still as solid option.
I disagree in making an absolute statement about DKs gaining more benefit from ArPen than warriors. Even though Rune Strike does benefit from ArPen more than other abilities because of the 1.5x threat modifier, DK's also rely on magical damage attacks that are not mitigated by armor. On the other hand, as far as I know, all warrior attacks are mitigated by armor, which means ArPen will increase threat from all warrior abilities, while it will only increase threat from a subset of a DK's abilities.

Either way, the OP was asking whether ArPen was a threat stat, and it is. The formulas are pretty clear, and because of the way ArPen works, it seems like it only suprasses other DPS stats if you stack it in large ammounts. So unless you're already capped for hit and expertise, you're probably still better off going for one of these stats instead of ArPen, or just sticking to your tier gloves which you can gem to your liking.

Muffin Man
05-18-2009, 01:44 PM
ArP got buffed notably in 3.1, and it's still being sorted out on the value to DPS/Threat, IMO. Given that Rune Strike is (effectively) the only spammable, "High Threat" ability every DK has, it makes these gloves more useful to DKs as a class than warriors. Warriors have alternatives to Heroic Strike, though it's still as solid option.

There's also the DPS OT aspect, which I find myself in at times, and these may fit such a 'specific role' set if I picked them up.

This doesn't make sense to me. The spammable 'high threat' ability every warrior has is Heroic Strike and is physical... as is every other warrior ability (we don't have any alternatives to dumping rage btw).

In fact my first inclination was to call these Warrior Gloves because ArP gets better the more you stack, and prot warriors effectively roll with 20% ArP.

I can see these being useful for DK's and Pallies if it turns out they do a significant amount of physical damage, but a small amount of ArP in itself doesn't do much.

Also, ignoring the ArP on the gloves, they have more armor and hp than anything you could have picked up in Naxx/10 so even if you don't like ArP they have their use.

Kazeyonoma
05-18-2009, 02:26 PM
wait, how do prot warriors effectively roll with 20% arp?

Molohk
05-18-2009, 02:31 PM
I think he's counting sunders as ArP.

ttocs
05-18-2009, 02:33 PM
ArP is not, under any circumstance, more valuable to a DK than a Warrior. The "gain" you get from increased Rune Strike damage (which is small when you're using just these gloves) would be better suited for other threat stats like Hit, Strength and even Expertise.

Durandro
05-18-2009, 02:37 PM
Sunder Armour/Devastate.

Edit: Bit slow on the response there. Though I guess I can expand it and say that all melee get the buff as well...so it's a moot point really, unless there are no Warriors in the group (or they aren't Sundering).

Kazeyonoma
05-18-2009, 02:53 PM
But any warrior in raid will always provide this buff, (dps warriors should put it up if no prot warrior is there, seriously, if they aren't, they aren't doing their job). So that's kinda out the door.

The key thing to remember is that for warriors this benefits every single one of their attacks except possibly shockwave/tclap. For that reason warriors benefit the most of the 4 tanking classes from ArPen. Why do these gloves exists? Because if you somehow manage to cap hit and expertise (this is tough!) this gives an additional threat boost that you otherwise would have to reserve towards str.

Muffin Man
05-18-2009, 04:02 PM
But any warrior in raid will always provide this buff, (dps warriors should put it up if no prot warrior is there, seriously, if they aren't, they aren't doing their job). So that's kinda out the door.

It's a 10 man piece, so I wouldn't make any assumptions about raid composition.

Whitegold
05-18-2009, 06:13 PM
Indeed. I'm almost invariably the only warrior in my group. One of only two (at 80) in our guild and the other is an alt. And if I'm not there my place will be taken by a pally.

Lizana
05-18-2009, 08:31 PM
Arp affects shockwave and TClap damage as those are physical attacks

Hamburglar
05-19-2009, 07:17 AM
This is a terribly itemized piece of gear. There's a good chance if you're off-tanking in Ulduar you might not be hit or expertise-capped. Any traditional tanking piece with hit or expertise would give you more threat and dps. There are several solid gloves with either hit or expertise on them as everyone knows like T7.5, T8.5, conquest badge gloves, etc.

Kazeyonoma
05-19-2009, 09:27 AM
I wouldn't go so far as to say it's TERRIBLE, suboptimal sure, but it's from 10man.

Rhyseh
05-19-2009, 08:50 PM
Hmm, without more prot pieces sporting ArP these aren't terribly useful on their own. However with people hitting the expertise and hit cap in Naxx this could potentially add an extra threat stat to our arsenal, but then again I would much prefer more strength to ArP....

Satrina
05-21-2009, 08:31 AM
Hit capping is a joke in Ulduar gear. If I can expertise cap without using my T7 gloves I'll use these for a threat seat, absolutely.

Different is not bad.

Clyde
05-21-2009, 08:47 AM
Might also be good for warriors using the unrelenting assault build and a mace spec.

Voodan
05-21-2009, 10:02 AM
Keep in mind the following:

ArPen increases in usefulness exponentially. This leads to the following 2 conclusions:
1. The only advantage to a DK versus a Warrior in terms of ArPen would be a Blood DK because they have an innate ArPen buff through Blood Gorged (I don't think warriors have an innate talent to improve ArPen unless I'm mistaken? Sunder/Devestate affect the mob, so DK's could benefit from this with a warrior in group as well)

2. Because it stacks exponentially, you really do need a lot of it for it to become effective. Unless you stack ArPen after being expertise/hit capped, it is not that useful imo.

To summarazie, the ArPen on these gloves is not overlly useful as compared to other stats on potential tanking gloves such as hit/expertise. That being said, its not horrible. As to whehter its better for a DK or a Warrior tank, well it really depends on your base level of ArPen before these gloves and even then the difference would be marginal.

Molohk
05-21-2009, 10:08 AM
As Satrina mentioned, you have to keep in mind the available itemization. Most tanking gloves offer either expertise or hit rating, if you're already capped on these values, the gloves with ArPen are probably your best available choice for threat, regardless of how ArPen compares to any other threat stat.

Biggensak
05-22-2009, 06:17 AM
I don't understand the seemingly random direction Blizz decided to go with itemization of the early tanking drops in Uldar.. it's not like we're seeing Parry stacked onto DPS plate - why the decision to itemize with marginally useful DPS stats on tanking gear and/or leave defense off entirely? Tanks already have a stupidly large number of stats to balance out (at keast from a warrior's perspective) - why waste budget on a key early drop like this?

It seems like playing around with "non traditional" itemization makes more sense in Uldar-25 where the situations described elsewhere in this thread with tanks carrying an adequate level of threat and avoidance/EH stats on gear can afford to rotate an item like this in to their kit. People stepping into Uldar-10 wearing 10-man gear (supposedly the intended progression track) do not overgear the content and having item budget wasted on an almost useless DPS centric stat like ArP is pointless. It would make a lot more sense to itemize the early drops in a way that help progression rather than making them gimick sidegrades.

Of the 4 uldar drops I've seen 2 were proper upgrades to items previously obtained while 2 have really wonky stat allocation that make their impact on gear progression at this level questionable:

Flamewatch Armguards > Bracers of Dalaran's Parapats Item Comparison Tool - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?compare=45283;40734&focus=0)

Furnace Stone > Valor Medal of the First War
Item Comparison Tool - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?compare=45313;40683&focus=0)


..

But then there are the first two sets of easily available gloves (Adamant Handguards and the Gauntlets of the Iron Furnace) - both of which waste significant item budget on trash stats like ArP or Shield Block Rating making them less useful than gloves from previous tier items or standard boss drops... And there is the sweet tanking sword that skips defense entirely (Stoneguard) forcing gear/gem changes elsewhere that may or may not result in a net positive over one's previous gear configuration.

Maybe I'm just bitchy because I was up late pounding my head against the Iron Council wipe machine... Or maybe Blizz had every intention of making class mechanic changes to go along with this itemization mindset that has yet to materialize... As much as I love the look, feel and increased challenge of the boss fights in Uldar it seems like there's room for improvement in the tanking drop itemization.