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View Full Version : Parries in Zul'Gurub with -6.5% chance to be?



Pylae
05-13-2009, 04:48 PM
I can post the screenies if desired, but I've been getting LOTS of parries while soloing Zul'Gurub with 26 expertise (-6.5% dodge/parry).

What am I missing?

Gravy
05-13-2009, 04:53 PM
What am I missing?

That parry rates for boss level mobs are higher than 6.5%

Molohk
05-13-2009, 04:54 PM
26 is the soft cap, enough to get rid of dodges but not parries. My guess is that you're talking about the bosses, so keep in mind you're fighting "boss level" mobs (as oposed to lvl 63 mobs).

Dragaan
05-13-2009, 04:54 PM
-6.5 caps you for dodge, not parry. Bosses will usually parry you ~15% of the time.

Satorri
05-14-2009, 05:15 AM
'Boss' level mobs, anything that has a skull for its level is always 3 levels higher than the person attacking it.

This appears to now be the case and is different than my previous understanding, maybe actually different? I was originally under the impression that the boss was 3 lvls higher than the highest lvl character in the raid, but I've since run BC content with a range of levels and the rogue who was 73 didn't have a significantly increased miss rate behind the level 80s.

jere
05-14-2009, 05:40 AM
I don't think it is actually different. We noticed the same thing back when BC came out and we went back and did old world content.

littleboots
05-14-2009, 12:11 PM
6.5 is the level to get rid of dodge not parries. To get rid of parries it is 15% i think. The way I know it is, for bosses you want 26 expertise to eliminate dodges and 57 expertise to eliminate parries(if you are level 80). The exact percentages I do not. I don't theory craft I just listen to what I am told by Ciderhelm et al.

Pylae
05-14-2009, 10:56 PM
Dang that'd make sense. Has anyone tested it in action? That's a boatload of expertise!

Dang so if you're naked you've got 8% chance to miss 6.5% chance to be dodged and 15% to be parried? That's 29.5%! Nerf bosses they're the OP.

Dylae

Satorri
05-15-2009, 06:06 AM
I don't know Jere, I was running my rogue, and I checked her miss %'s, and at 74 with 80's in the party, I was only missing auto-attacks and in appropriate measure (doing out the math) for attacking a level 77.

There are no external hit-buffing abilities, so I'm not sure what I could have been missing.

Amanrah
05-15-2009, 11:41 AM
Boss level mob combat tables are applied separately for each player (i.e. a level 74 misses/dodges/parries like fighting a lvl 77 mob, a lvl 80 misses dodges parries like fighting a lvl 83 mob). The hit points/mana and damage output of the boss are all calculated using the highest level player in the raid.

Nunes
05-15-2009, 03:48 PM
I thought it was 11% on parries...?

Kazeyonoma
05-15-2009, 04:07 PM
it was tested to be around 14% parry, what it is now I can't confirm, can't imagine it changed. It's either 14% or 14.25%. not 11% for sure.

Blueduck3285
05-15-2009, 04:22 PM
Boss level mob combat tables are applied separately for each player (i.e. a level 74 misses/dodges/parries like fighting a lvl 77 mob, a lvl 80 misses dodges parries like fighting a lvl 83 mob). The hit points/mana and damage output of the boss are all calculated using the highest level player in the raid.


I could see the first part being the case, each player having their own miss/dodge/parry chance. Buf hit points/mana is static for bosses, and shouldnt scale with highest level toon in the raid. I would also suspect that damage outpoint wouldnt be a variable dependent on highest lvl in the raid. If that were the case youd see Onyxia hitting for more than just 200 on my DK. I have however noticed that my miss chance is the same against Onyxia as it is any boss in northrend. That being said, it could totally be that each miss/dodge/parry table for bosses are individual for eacy player in the raid.

Alephnull
05-21-2009, 01:19 PM
I don't think it is actually different. We noticed the same thing back when BC came out and we went back and did old world content.

I'm quite certain there is some sort of "innate" level to a boss mob. When 3.0 went live, but before Wrath did, Vanquish(Cho'gall) ran several raids to kill the Horde leaders. I went with them and we found it was almost impossible for casters to hit the city bosses, and even melee were hard pressed to do any real damage.

Due to mechanics, hunters were able to hit far easier, so we used them to dps and warriors with cross vigilances to chain spam taunt and mocking blow in the hopes that they would eventually land. I almost wonder if the skull just masks a real level, that was always set at either 63, 73, or 83.

As another example, one take a lower level character to the ?? dummies in a major city, and see if the expected hit matches the observed.

Ieatpugs
05-23-2009, 06:03 AM
Those type of "boss" mob examples exist, but I'm pretty sure they are exclusive to those few examples.

Satorri
05-23-2009, 06:25 AM
Blizz has made it clear that the 'skull' level mobs do not have a fixed level, it is relative to some factor based on raid level.

I'm just not entirely clear how it calculates, and I'm starting to lean towards individual calculation (i.e. I'm 75, so my attacks are calculated against a 78, you're 80 so yours is 83).

Alephnull
05-25-2009, 10:54 AM
It may be based on "intended" level + 3 or something. I did some testing in at the IF dummies with a rogue I didn't level yet (70).

Attacking the level 80 test dummy, I saw:

level 80 dummy - 277 hit rating 17.57% no talents
2110 Melee swings
74.2% glancing
16.7% miss
9.1% dodge

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/9066/level80dummy.jpg

Now, if the level ?? dummy is my level + 3, it should be 73, and i should see somewhere around 9-10% miss. If its higher, miss will be higher obviously.

level 70, level ?? boss dummy - same stats
1009 Melee Swings
68.3% glancing
20.1% miss
11.6% dodge

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/7005/levelbossdummy.jpg


I think its safe to conclude there is an innate level to the ?? mobs (or at the very least the dummies).

Satorri
05-26-2009, 05:37 AM
I'm not sure how they coded the dummies or if they're the same, but that's good data to have. It definitely was functionally more than 3 levels above you, that level difference would be 25% glancing as a fixed value. Interesting though that the 80 DID behave as if it were higher level than the boss dummy.

Alephnull
05-26-2009, 12:57 PM
I don't think it did. The glancing rate is only lower because the dodged rate was higher (implying that it was a higher level, since dodge is fixed). The sum of glancing + dodge is less for the 80 dummy than the boss dummy.