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Denaro
05-08-2009, 06:10 AM
Hi all,

I have started a midnight raidguild on the server Magtheridon 4 weeks ago now. We are now focussing on the 10 mens and doing 25 men in pug so that Ulduar 10 is "easier" to handle.

In 4 weeks we have all 10 men content cleared, sarth 1D and having 4 bosses down in Ulduar(8 hours of raiding 4 bosses down).

I myself was a alliance player for 3 years and was in the world #50 in TBC. Getting server firsts was daily for the guild and I.
I have got several issues and also work which makes it for me only able to raid after midnight and that affects ofcourse also the "skills" of the players on the server. After all we don't have such a wide pick on recruits.

My problem now is that I have no understand for why some people can't understand certain things without screwing up. And I am tend to lose it when they really fuck up in ways where I even could do better being blindfolded.

For example a tank took Sarth yesterday because he was fucking up on adds(going 2D) and instead of pulling with HT he walked up to him and failed(!!!!) on positioning him. He didn't run back to the island and placed him correctly. Me and the other tank showed this to him 2 times and he still failed. I lost it and yelled at him wtf was wrong with this.

I have "anger" issues when players fuck up on un-understable things such as positioning correctly, standing in fire etc.

What can I DO!!!!!!

Kraul
05-08-2009, 06:45 AM
Bascially you have three options.

Learn to deal with your anger.

Be much more restrictive in who you let run.

Or find a way to join a more high end raiding guild that fits your schedule.

Fact of the matter is, there are all kinds of people who play this game. And for many different reasons, some don't play it as well as others. If your looking for a guaranteed way to make those players better, you're only going to frustrate yourself even more.

I am an officer and raid leader in a VERY casual guild. We have many of the players you speak of. But because of my available play time I'd never make it any other guild. So I make a conscious decision to just enjoy the game in what ever way I can, and enjoy the people I play with. We've had more than a few exceptional players come and go in our guild and i've dealt with them and thier frustrations with the "slackers". All I tell them is, "you pay for the game, you need to do what is best for your enjoyment of the game. If our decisions aren't doing that, then I'll understand if you need to look elswhere."

Denaro
05-08-2009, 06:49 AM
Thanks for your answer.

Yesterday I went off and had like a 2-3 hour MSN session with the 2nd in command of my guild. He also told me I had to accept that not everyone plays his/her class as good as I or himself does.
It is very hard to understand and accept that some persons do not understand a simple fact of pulling or moving out of a big blue circle.

I guess I will have to keep my anger down tonight in Uldu

Thanks mate!

Cookie
05-08-2009, 06:50 AM
You have to understand that some people are just unable to do certain things in game, while others just have a huge learning curve. Some things like boss positioning or moving out of the fire may be easy to you, but it's not like that for everyone. Some people have tunnel vision- when they're focused on dpsing for example, that's the only thing they're concentrated on, so they don't even notice if they're standing in the fire. In the real world, if you're standing in a fire, it's obvious because you'll feel hot or pain. In game, you don't feel anything, and the people prone to tunnel-vision only notice after they've died.

There are also other people who have a hard time judging distance in game. The game itself is 3D while our screens are flat, so some people who are bad at judging distances move to what they think is the correct position when it isn't. This is probably the most obvious during Malygos p3.

Others just have to keep trying until they get it because they're slow.

As a good guild master, the hardest job is probably to filter people- know who's truly bad and who's just slow, and teach or recruit more accordingly. But if you have no patience and start screaming at people, then it's probably best if you let someone else with more patience lead the raids. Wiping is a part of progression, something Naxx has made a lot of people forget.


You could also try rewarding/punishing accordingly, like -dkp for screwing up too often or +dkp/free items from the guild bank for those who succeeed. Having an incentive to doing good helps people improve a lot faster.

Kraul
05-08-2009, 07:01 AM
Thanks for your answer.

Yesterday I went off and had like a 2-3 hour MSN session with the 2nd in command of my guild. He also told me I had to accept that not everyone plays his/her class as good as I or himself does.
It is very hard to understand and accept that some persons do not understand a simple fact of pulling or moving out of a big blue circle.

I guess I will have to keep my anger down tonight in Uldu

Thanks mate!

Well again, I'm not necessarily saying you even have to accept it totally. You can not let them raid anymore. Or set up a system like cookie suggests.

And cookie is 100% correct on one thing. The hardest thing to do as an Officer and RL is to distinguish between the player who just isn't trying to get better, and the player who's trying, but just has a hard time for some reason or another, and needs more help.

Then the 2nd hardest thing as a RL is to justify your decisions to the other memebers of your raid teams who don't have all the information that you do.

And again, I'm coming froma guild that has only killed FL and really hasn't even tried anything else in Udluar because we as Officers and RLs don't feel our guild is ready yet.

Denaro
05-08-2009, 07:02 AM
Hey Cookie,

Yes that is the hard part, because we are a midnight raidguild. We have a limited selection of players. Yesterday I just went out of line and I really regret that fact though. I am just not used(how stupid this may sound) of wiping on the ways we do now.

I have always been in a topguild and we did not wipe because someone was moving on Aran or because a person failing on moving left or right on thaddius.

Thanks this information is just a confirmation I think of what I already knew but didn't wanted to accept. I guess that is my weakpart as a GM/RL

And to get to the point of wiping, I don't mind wiping....depends only on which way

Cookie
05-08-2009, 07:19 AM
Well, there are still ways to help out people who are bad at stuff like moving on Thaddius:

Call out when everyone has to move on vent, like on poliarity shifts and barrages.

Make bossmods required for your raids- both DBM and BigWigs is good. But personally I prefer BigWigs for the people who are slow since it whispers people and makes their screen flash when they're standing in something bad.

Tell people to turn up their spell effects and turn on projected textures. They can't move out of void zones if they can't even see it.

Make people use a camera zoom out macro:
/script SetCVar("cameraDistanceMaxFactor","3.4")
Makes it a lot easier to see void zones and things like incoming orbs

But yeah, there's only so much you can do to help. Though I have to say that a raid leader who gets pissy is very demoralising and often makes people do worse.

And I know you raid late, but maybe you could try the Guild recruitment forums to find people. Keep trying, I'm sure there's lots of people who would like to raid late at night. Though maybe Magtheridon isn't the best place for such a guild. I'm on a similar server with a lot of top guilds, and the general atmosphere is quite hardcore. Casual guilds have a tough time recruiting and 10-man guilds are virtually unheard of but the hardcore ones have bucketloads of people applying.

Denaro
05-08-2009, 07:22 AM
Yup, I do so in raids. I tell people when to move. I watch the raid more then I watch my tanking so....and I do call out I mean...that's all I can do. yes incl the cameradist etc I do that all.

Yeah well, Magtheridon is a place where I have a lot of friends and I don't know where else to go. I don't like change server...

Bluedot
05-08-2009, 07:23 AM
Get FailBot - Addons - Curse (http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/failbot.aspx)

It will do the talking for you.
While it does not detect when people fail at positioning Sarth, and stuff like that. It will publicly point out people who fail at simple stuff like Void Zones, and how many times they have failed.

Trust me.. it works wonders.. and it allows you to stay quiet and not lose your temper as the yelling has already been done.