Zorzil
05-08-2009, 05:53 AM
I've been in my guild for a long time now (20 months) and I really have no desire to cause any unnecessary trouble or leave, but I've got some long-standing issues that don't seem to be getting any kind of resolution (or indeed, any response).
We don't raid very often (three 25-man raids a week for three hours each) but we have made good use of that time, clearing MH/BT and 1/6 SWP in TBC and doing everything up to 8/14 Ulduar so far in WotLK. I wouldn't say we're bad, but its damn frustrating at times because of these issues.
My concern is, we seem to have a couple of individuals who have the idea that their damage output is priority #1 with no heed for team play or precaution; even going as far as to expect others to do things wrongly or compensate for them in ridiculous ways to make their damage-dealing as easy and non-interrupted as possible. This made getting our Sartharion +3 kill especially difficult to achieve (and we've only managed it once) because we would regularly lose these people fairly early on to void zones/fire walls and then not have enough DPS to keep up.
As a long-standing tank, I've always had the mindset of survival over DPS. In my mind, as long as you don't reach the enrage timer, taking stupid risks to attempt to make a fight go faster or inflate your DPS by staying in avoidable AoE is unacceptable. What I don't know however, is whether I'm trying too hard (or possibly, not hard enough!) to try relate this view onto others.
My biggest complaint regards a feral (cat) druid in my guild, who happens to also be an officer and has been since before I joined. He does good DPS, but I get quite irritated by some of his methods and responses during raids. Especially more so since he seems to have drastically worsened since WotLK, when he was actually really quite good during early/mid-TBC. Some memorable examples:
Kael'Thas
Complained regularly at the tank in the phases involving Kael himself when the MT had to move to get out of a flamestrike, often turning Kael briefly which sometimes meant he wasn't behind for his positional-requirement moves, or because the boss moved slightly.
Kalecgos
Expected other people to tell him where his portal was so he didn't have to look for it (when the rest of his group did).
Sartharion +3
Starts going full out on Sartharion when he hasn't even reached the tank. Regularly missed void zones/fire walls and expected others to tell him when to move.
Sartharion +2
Ignored the active drake so he could maintain his DPS by nuking Sartharion.
XT-002 Deconstructor
Wanted other people to tell him when he got a Light/Gravity Bomb so he didn't have to watch for it (despite boss mods making it pretty damn clear). This came up when he stood in the middle of the melee with a Light Bomb for the entire duration then claimed he didn't notice.
Iron Council
Deliberately stays in Overloads when everyone else runs out. Made some attempts to move out of them last night which (IMO) were feeble attempts to cover it up; backpeddling or only reacting after the cast has almost finished. This was also after a bit of a mess-up with one of the tanks dying which killed a few people whilst I tried to pick up Molgeim (as I had Brundir in the very back of the room), so survival and not stressing the remaining healers to save the attempt was key.
Auriaya
Doesn't get involved in splitting the Sonic Screech, ever. All the other melee either stay at the front for the entire fight if they're not sure they'd react fast enough or run in to take it when she starts casting.
Thorim
Expected other people to tell him when Evokers/Champions joined the arena, and when the Lightning Charges appeared behind him.
General
Ignores kill orders to maximise his position on the damage meters by not having to move between mobs. Demands that the tanks move bosses in pretty erratic ways so he can start DPS as soon as possible/keep DPSing without interruption. Pays no attention to dangerous situations and blames the tanks for not warning him.
Example 1: Ulduar Antechamber trash. We normally have one tank take the two Iron Menders and another take the two statues, who moves away when they cast Hardened Fists. The druid kills the Iron Menders then jumps straight onto one of the statues (with its tank nowhere near) and proceeds to get one-shot. Then blames the tanks for not telling him when he could just check the buff like we had to.
Example 2: The Auriaya trash that passes orbs - one got through as the first mob died, causing the second to have a damage increase and AoE on successful swing in addition to its enrage. You can probably guess what happened next (hint: doesn't actually bother checking what mobs/buffs do).
Am I over-reacting over this? I've raised the issue on the guild forums but so far there's been no response. There is the rather unfortunate circumstances that pretty much all of the other officers are almost entirely occupied by real life matters (two are on holiday, one's moving house, the other two have university/work issues right now), but I still feel some explanation should be given.
I'm just so disgusted by the notion that 1-2 people think they can get away with outright shoddy performances, making things harder for other people and get the rewards, especially when they're supposed to be part of the guild leadership. I'm not looking forward to Mimiron at all on 25-man (when I really enjoyed it on the 10 man for being such a crazy fight) because I know he's going to die to the phase 1/4 shockwaves, missiles, turret fire etc. and then blame it on other people and expect them to watch everything for him. Should I take things further or just bite my tongue and try wait it out?
We don't raid very often (three 25-man raids a week for three hours each) but we have made good use of that time, clearing MH/BT and 1/6 SWP in TBC and doing everything up to 8/14 Ulduar so far in WotLK. I wouldn't say we're bad, but its damn frustrating at times because of these issues.
My concern is, we seem to have a couple of individuals who have the idea that their damage output is priority #1 with no heed for team play or precaution; even going as far as to expect others to do things wrongly or compensate for them in ridiculous ways to make their damage-dealing as easy and non-interrupted as possible. This made getting our Sartharion +3 kill especially difficult to achieve (and we've only managed it once) because we would regularly lose these people fairly early on to void zones/fire walls and then not have enough DPS to keep up.
As a long-standing tank, I've always had the mindset of survival over DPS. In my mind, as long as you don't reach the enrage timer, taking stupid risks to attempt to make a fight go faster or inflate your DPS by staying in avoidable AoE is unacceptable. What I don't know however, is whether I'm trying too hard (or possibly, not hard enough!) to try relate this view onto others.
My biggest complaint regards a feral (cat) druid in my guild, who happens to also be an officer and has been since before I joined. He does good DPS, but I get quite irritated by some of his methods and responses during raids. Especially more so since he seems to have drastically worsened since WotLK, when he was actually really quite good during early/mid-TBC. Some memorable examples:
Kael'Thas
Complained regularly at the tank in the phases involving Kael himself when the MT had to move to get out of a flamestrike, often turning Kael briefly which sometimes meant he wasn't behind for his positional-requirement moves, or because the boss moved slightly.
Kalecgos
Expected other people to tell him where his portal was so he didn't have to look for it (when the rest of his group did).
Sartharion +3
Starts going full out on Sartharion when he hasn't even reached the tank. Regularly missed void zones/fire walls and expected others to tell him when to move.
Sartharion +2
Ignored the active drake so he could maintain his DPS by nuking Sartharion.
XT-002 Deconstructor
Wanted other people to tell him when he got a Light/Gravity Bomb so he didn't have to watch for it (despite boss mods making it pretty damn clear). This came up when he stood in the middle of the melee with a Light Bomb for the entire duration then claimed he didn't notice.
Iron Council
Deliberately stays in Overloads when everyone else runs out. Made some attempts to move out of them last night which (IMO) were feeble attempts to cover it up; backpeddling or only reacting after the cast has almost finished. This was also after a bit of a mess-up with one of the tanks dying which killed a few people whilst I tried to pick up Molgeim (as I had Brundir in the very back of the room), so survival and not stressing the remaining healers to save the attempt was key.
Auriaya
Doesn't get involved in splitting the Sonic Screech, ever. All the other melee either stay at the front for the entire fight if they're not sure they'd react fast enough or run in to take it when she starts casting.
Thorim
Expected other people to tell him when Evokers/Champions joined the arena, and when the Lightning Charges appeared behind him.
General
Ignores kill orders to maximise his position on the damage meters by not having to move between mobs. Demands that the tanks move bosses in pretty erratic ways so he can start DPS as soon as possible/keep DPSing without interruption. Pays no attention to dangerous situations and blames the tanks for not warning him.
Example 1: Ulduar Antechamber trash. We normally have one tank take the two Iron Menders and another take the two statues, who moves away when they cast Hardened Fists. The druid kills the Iron Menders then jumps straight onto one of the statues (with its tank nowhere near) and proceeds to get one-shot. Then blames the tanks for not telling him when he could just check the buff like we had to.
Example 2: The Auriaya trash that passes orbs - one got through as the first mob died, causing the second to have a damage increase and AoE on successful swing in addition to its enrage. You can probably guess what happened next (hint: doesn't actually bother checking what mobs/buffs do).
Am I over-reacting over this? I've raised the issue on the guild forums but so far there's been no response. There is the rather unfortunate circumstances that pretty much all of the other officers are almost entirely occupied by real life matters (two are on holiday, one's moving house, the other two have university/work issues right now), but I still feel some explanation should be given.
I'm just so disgusted by the notion that 1-2 people think they can get away with outright shoddy performances, making things harder for other people and get the rewards, especially when they're supposed to be part of the guild leadership. I'm not looking forward to Mimiron at all on 25-man (when I really enjoyed it on the 10 man for being such a crazy fight) because I know he's going to die to the phase 1/4 shockwaves, missiles, turret fire etc. and then blame it on other people and expect them to watch everything for him. Should I take things further or just bite my tongue and try wait it out?