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Terra
05-06-2009, 06:43 AM
Just recently I've decided to get off my lazy bum and start doing WWS reports. I love them and it's telling me a lot of information about what people are (and more importantly) are not doing. However, at this point in time I feel like I'm in a haze of fog on whether I'm getting all of the value out of analyzing the data that I can.

Can anyone post a link to or give me a run down on any process they follow when analyzing WWS reports and how to tell what type of numbers I "should" be getting out of given classes/specs?

- Example, all the WWS reports I've run 10 and 25 man show a shammy healer on top for total heals and w/ the smallest overheals. This is with 3 different shammies (me one of them). Is this to be expected because of the mechanics of Resto shammies (mostly chain heal) or does this indicate the given healers were just that good or that the other healers were just not up to par?

I've got more questions like that, but teach me to fish, don't just give me one.

Farothin
05-06-2009, 09:15 AM
My experience is that the surface information on healing meters or WWS reports will almost never tell you who the good healers are but may show you where the slackers are.

Our reports always start with our holy paladin, she's an amazing player and is very conscientious about where her bacon is so every heal she tosses counts double, but of course over-healing is high. Then it usually goes to other multi-target healers (druid hots, shaman, CoH) with our poor Disc priests being very under represented in the meters (why is it so hard to report shields correctly?). What I end up looking for is people who are not matching the position I have seen others of their spec. If there's a shaman who's been beaten on the meters by a disc priests that might be a flag that you should check their gear and or behavior.
Something else to consider is that healing meters are also VERY dependent on who your healers are assigned to. Your MT healers should beat the pants off of your other healers in most fights.

Granted I only look at the healing portion of the reports if people are dieing and the 'who heals whom' report can be a real eye opener. In one of our early attempts on Hydross we kept losing one of the elemental tanks... turns out that the paladin assigned to him had only 5% of his healing done on his assigned target, no wonder that tank kept dieing!

Terra
05-06-2009, 11:34 AM
Hrmm.. Main tank healers usually beat raid healers?

Wow Web Stats (http://wowwebstats.com/t4swumac2rgnc?s=215564-277555)

In that fight, I (Terraherz) was assigned to raid. 6 healers, highest heals and lowest overheals. Main tank was Starasana and was heal target of Xander and Humanhammer. Since this is Auriaya, it was spam heals on tanks for initial pull and then peel off w/ Bigdragon and Sekar to tank supplement but mostly raid heals. Although I wasn't assigned to main heal main tank, I do have a high percentage on main tank, due to mechanics of chain heal.

After that I had to leave and pulled in one of our other resto shammy's to replace me.:

Wow Web Stats (http://wowwebstats.com/t4swumac2rgnc?s=362681-370876)

Granted this was not a complete kill of the boss and was guild's first time to see Thorim in 25 man. I believe the one whose combat logs were used was on the arena side and may not have seen what was in the hallway, but I'm seeing a similar story.

Now another night:

Wow Web Stats (http://wowwebstats.com/oudwlfimj2lei?s=5609-91102)

Razorscale fight. Highest overall heals to a resto shammy who also had smallest overheal (although 39% as "smallest overheal? heh). Again only 6 healers. Humanhammer, holy pally was main heal on main tank. Regulo and Xander assigned to watch other other tanks and assist with raid heals as situation dictatcted.

Is this a picture of shammies' just tending towards the top or our shammy healers just that good or our other healers could perform better? <- please read this as an honest question. I mean no spin on this :)

Aside from understanding what's fair to look at for healers, any thoughts on what to look for with tanks and dps other than, just look for something out of place?

Molohk
05-06-2009, 12:06 PM
I use wws very frequently to analyze encounters where I tank or dps, but I haven't figured out a way to use it effectively for healing analysis. As other posters have said, there are too many variables (assignments, buffs, mitigation, incoming damage, etc.) to look at the numbers alone.

No offense, but I really disagree with phrases like "main tank healers usually beat raid healers?", because healing is not like DPSing, in 99% of the encounters you just can't compare the healing numbers of 2 healers to figure out "who beat who".

Even though WWS is not ideal for healing analysis, and based on my experience, here's some WWS tools that could be useful:

- Buff uptime: Priests have buffs like grace, renew and inspiration, I'm not sure about shammies. You can look at buff uptime by going to your assignment's stat page and clicking on "buffs and debuffs", it will show the uptime for each buff.

- Cooldown usage: Some classes have abilities and cooldowns they want to use as frequently as possible. If you go to your own stat page, in the "Abilities" tab you can see how many times you used each skill (including your active trinkets, and such). For instance, if a fight lasted 120 seconds, and you have a skill on a 10 second cooldown that you want to cast as much as possible, there was enough time to use it 12 times, if you only used it 10 times, then you know you have to watch your cooldowns closer.

- Forensics: I really like WWS's log feature, you can use the filters to see exactly what you want to see. If you were assigned to heal the main tank, and you want to figure out why the tank died, you can go to "browse > browse log file" and enter a simple filter like "source=terra or target=tanknamehere" and it will show only stuff that you did (buffs and heals) and stuff done to the tank (damage, heals, buffs, etc.) You can use much more complex filters, I really like playing around with this feature.

Gretchin
05-07-2009, 05:35 AM
When I check out other priest healers on WWS reports I mainly check for a few fundemental things to decide who is doing their job and who is not.

Dispelling and removing diseases. People are too lazy these days and should probably have experienced Lucifron or Chromaggus back in the days. Those that do dispel and remove diseases understand the importance, and knowledge is a good indicator to see who cares about the mechanics instead of their own personal healing output (we do not run with assigned decursers).

Check overhealing and healing output over time. Healing meteres are mostly a waste when things go as it should and the boss dies, but if you check WWS reports for let's say the last 5 - 6 raids and you see the same persons being behind on output or above on overhealing there is something they are doing that isn't 100% correct.

I'm sure there are better ways of doing this but this is a quick way to gain some impressions at least.

Terra
05-07-2009, 07:07 AM
Alright.. I think I have enough data to analyze healers. More input on analyzing tanks and DPSers? I'm not a big fan of looking at raw total damage done or average DPS because there's more to a fight than that, but suggestions on what to look for?

Molohk, thanks for the tip on the "Forensics". I was going ape-shit last night in raid when we had 3 resto shammies and one of them (who is supposed to be the best of us) couldn't manage to keep Earth Shield up. Countless pulls and I kept asking him to put it up on his assigned Earth Shield target. He couldn't do it before the engagement and he couldn't do it during the engagement. My guess is he put me on /ignore getting annoyed at me asking him once every 10 seconds to cast what should be a fundamental spell for a resto shammy... heh.

Before taking the issue any further, I needed to find out if he wasn't casting it at all or if he was casting it on the wrong target and it was being overwritten by one of the other shammies. The search feature told it all.

He was assigned to Earth Shield one of the warrior tanks:
Wow Web Stats (http://wowwebstats.com/qzhyyurbxijz5?s=210953-271635&bl=210952&filter=unit%3D%22bloodysavior%22+and+spell%3D%22ea rth+shield%22)

I was assigned to Earth Shield the pally tank. However due to him not doing his job on renewal, I changed targets because the warrior tank was the more important Earth Shield receipient:
Wow Web Stats (http://wowwebstats.com/qzhyyurbxijz5?s=210953-271635&bl=210952&filter=unit%3D%22terraherz%22+and+spell%3D%22earth +shield%22)

I don't recall why I changed targets at the end. It was probably unnecesarry as the resto shammy assigned to that target kept hers up the entire fight with early renews as GCDs were available:
http://wowwebstats.com/qzhyyurbxijz5?s=210953-271635&bl=210952&filter=unit%3D%22jyotsana%22+and+spell%3D%22earth+ shield%22

So this was very useful to me in proving a point I had. Need to figure out ways to see if I can make it uncover things I'm not specifically looking for.

Cookie
05-07-2009, 04:11 PM
Our reports always start with our holy paladin, she's an amazing player and is very conscientious about where her bacon is so every heal she tosses counts double, but of course over-healing is high. Then it usually goes to other multi-target healers (druid hots, shaman, CoH) with our poor Disc priests being very under represented in the meters (why is it so hard to report shields correctly?). What I end up looking for is people who are not matching the position I have seen others of their spec. If there's a shaman who's been beaten on the meters by a disc priests that might be a flag that you should check their gear and or behavior.
Your holy paladin is topping the meters not because she's either using Judgement of Light or your other healers suck. JoL heals raid members when they attack the target with the debuff, so it has nothing to do with how good your paladin is.

To judge a disc priest's absorbs, download recount guessed absorbs. You'd be surprised at how much their shields absorb, even letting them top the meters in a lot of Ulduar fights.



It's hard to give a "guide" on how to read healing meters. But generally on fights where the tank takes a lot of damage, like Patchwerk or Gluth, single target healers like holy paladins or disc priests should be on top. On fights with lots of aoe, holy priests, druids or shamans should be on top.

Check healing to overheal ratio. If an aoe healer is topping overheal but being lowest on effective heal, then they're bad. For single target healers, their overheal depends on the raid makeup and tank's gear. If you're progressing, then their overheal shouldn't be too high, but as the raid gears up and tanks mitigate more damage, their heals start ending up as overheal. You can also judge if you're bringing too many healers to a raid from how much your single target healers heal for.

Ever since patch 3.1, if the holy priest in your raid isn't topping the meters in most Ulduar fights, then they're doing something wrong.

You can usually figure out what a healer is doing wrong from their healing targets list on WWS, and their spell ratio.


There's a lot of ways healers try to up their healing or hps btw, which doesn't contribute to the raid really, but just makes it seem as if they're doing a good job. For example:
Druids wild growthing the melee on Patchwerk- melee shouldn't be slime dipping or needing heals anyway, but wild growth pushes their hps twice over the 2nd person on the list. Looks good, yup. Useful to the raid? No.

Paladins doing Judgement of Light- it's great on aoe fights, but makes it seem as if they're healing much more than they actually are.

Heal sniping- Basically a healer with a short cast time sees someone else trying to cast a big heal, and heals the target before their heal lands. These are the healers you should avoid at all costs regardless of how much healing they do because they're focused too much on looking good on the meters than on beneficial performance. Most of the time, these are also the healers who will top healing meters even though their assigned target keeps dying, because they're too busy heal sniping.

Not removing debuffs- I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet. These are the ones who use all their time in topping the healing meters and don't bother to remove debuffs at all. IMO these healers are gkick material regardless of how much healing they do, since removing debuffs is vital, and leaving them on usually kills people.