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facaa
05-06-2009, 05:34 AM
Hi all,

Before posting my question(s) I need to fill you in some info about me.
Well, first of I was a pvp:er for 3yrs, didnt raid at all exept in wow classic where I was priest. Played warrior for some time now but mostly pvp and some heroics. Been tanking now for 2-3 months and like it alot.

To my problems (questions):
I have read many threads about tanking, gemming, ench and rotations and I cannot say that I know everything but I have a overall clue about the tanking mechanism. Talked to a few warriors on my realm and they gave me some advice (expertise>hit and some other things).

DPS question:
My dps sux, Im landing at 1,1->1,4k on singlebosses.
I know that Im slacking a bit on the rotation (Im using the flowchart that was posted on this forum).

This below link is from our attempt on Saph.

Wow Web Stats (http://wowwebstats.com/j24jpffmsljhs?a=x10000000284ff53&s=135-20236)

My userprofile is the below link.
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Emerald+Dream&n=Frankke)

Im using elixir of defense to hit the cap.
Is there any advice, can you read out the saph attempt and tell what Im doing wrong?

Another problem Im having is taking aggro of our Pally tank (Gluth) but Id noticed that he goes all in and have much more threat so when Im trying to taunt of a boss then he stills is on top of the threat bar.

Thanks in advance :)

/Frankke

Auroch_Gorefiend
05-06-2009, 06:35 AM
Your talents seem solid, I might make a few suggestions, but that isn't going to help your DPS too much. Working HS into your rotation - making sure you hit it every time (why many tanks are asking for the toggle) will skyrocket your TPS, and help your DPS significantly. Other than that, prioritizing your highest threat / damage attacks is all you have left to do (aside from amassing more atk power, more block value etc.) A solid rotation and the comfort that comes with it will solve most of that problem.

As for the other issue, well, a taunt is just an aggro transference. If your paladin friend is still generating as much threat as he can, and you are either rage starved or not putting up TPS - yes, that can happen. (I try to save up some rage to burn after I taunt on that fight). You can fix that one of 2 ways. When you taunt, have your paladin stop generating threat for a few seconds. If you taunt and he keeps going full steam, hes going to get it back when the 6 seconds have elapsed. Your other option is to taunt, and then dump most of a rage bar onto the boss - you must generate more threat in those 6 seconds than the other tank if you want it to stay on you.

Hope that helped some.

Aethelas
05-06-2009, 06:57 AM
I had a similar problem on gluth, treat it like you would pick up a sheeped mob.

Immediately follow up your taunt with a shieldslam (possibly hit heroic strike and heroic throw with it at the same time) and unload all you can onto the mob. You'll need to save some rage for that. Also, be vocal about who taunts the target off, and when. Then have the other tank hold back a little, it's not a threat match after all.

ndb1983
05-06-2009, 07:35 AM
We have the same problem on taunts, whoever has him at the time (me or the pally) will take him back quick unless we just use autoattack when the other tank taunts.

VikingKong
05-06-2009, 08:58 AM
Immediately follow up your taunt with a shieldslam

This.

Shield Slam gives you more threat than any other attack you have and should be used after Taunt to grab a boss off of another tank.

facaa
05-06-2009, 09:41 AM
Great input guys, will implement your advice

Kerchunk
05-06-2009, 11:03 AM
Not sure why nobody has pointed out the most glaring issue here... but you are not Heroic Striking nearly enough. Without a doubt the single most important thing you can do right now to show a huge improvement in both TPS and DPS is to learn to Heroic Strike more.

The log you linked shows 203:40 Melee to Heroic Strike ratio. Almost 5:1 in favor of melee meaning you're only Heroic Striking once every six swings. You will never shine as a Protection Warrior unless you can practically reverse this ratio.

On a recent kill of Ignis I had 105 Heroic Strikes and allowed only 17 regular Melee swings through. A 6:1 ratio in favor of Heroic Strike. On that fight HS accounted for 35% of my total damage - in the log you linked, your HS only accounts for 10%.


My advice to you in order to do this is to find an arrangement of keybinds that permits you to spam Heroic Strike without neglecting your other skills. Remember that HS is not on the global cooldown, so you can use it literally every melee swing in an infinite rage scenario (which practically all bosses are).

Step one:
Replace your standard Heroic Strike key with a macro that does /cast !Heroic Strike. This will prevent you from toggling Heroic Strike off before it is consumed by your next melee swing, effectively allowing you to "spam" it without worrying about your swing timer.

Step two:
Find a key that you can press repeatedly without neglecting your other abilities. To accomplish this, I bind my primary abilities to my keyboard, but Heroic Strike to thumb button on my mouse. This allows me to use all my primary abilities: Devestate, Shield Slam, Revenge, Shockwave, Concussion Blow, Thunderclap, Demo. Shout, etc. while constantly spamming Heroic Strike at the same time.


I guarantee if you do this you will see a vast improvement in DPS and TPS. I've been pulling 2.0k-2.3k DPS on bosses recently which I'm really happy with for a Prot. Tank.

Grombrindal
05-06-2009, 11:08 AM
Not sure why nobody has pointed out the most glaring issue here... but you are not Heroic Striking nearly enough.

First reply said he should HS more.... :)

Kerchunk
05-06-2009, 11:15 AM
On the positive side, it's great that your getting Shockwave and Concussion Blow into your rotation. Keep it up and once you add Heroic Strike to the mix properly, you will be much happier I promise. :)

Kerchunk
05-06-2009, 11:16 AM
First reply said he should HS more.... :)

Yah, I just saw that. haha. Not sure how I missed it.

Oh, well. :rolleyes:

facaa
05-06-2009, 11:35 AM
Thanx Kerchunk for the in deepth look.
yea, I recorded the saph fight and I cannot see many HS comming up. :)

facaa
05-06-2009, 11:39 AM
Kerchunk, what about talent/gear/gems?

Kerchunk
05-06-2009, 12:43 PM
Kerchunk, what about talent/gear/gems?

Gems are generally Stamina unless you have a really good reason to do otherwise.

Gear and Talent is something you have to work out on your own because it depends on what content you're trying to push through.

Moving into Ulduar - especially 25-man - it's probably wise to move toward a talent layout that favors survivability: Improved Demo. Shout, Improved Disciplines, Improved Spell Reflect, etc. with glyphs for Shield Wall, Last Stand and Blocking. Staying alive is priority number one in Ulduar.

However, for Naxxramas 10/25 and other content, you can go for more DPS and threat output with a standard Deep Wounds/Impale talent spec and glyphs like Heroic Strike, Revenge, Blocking and/or Vigilance. You will put out higher DPS and TPS and should still be okay to live because Naxxramas bosses won't be meleeing you for 22k like the ones in Ulduar like to do. :)

Berzerker
05-06-2009, 12:53 PM
I'd gear for defense rather than relying on the elixir... it's just taking away from other consumable options, when you have plenty of (fairly easily obtainable) gear options to cover it...

personally I'd say toss the Nerubhide cloak and get one with defense -- the rep cloak from Wyrmrest (Cloak of Peaceful Resolutions - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=44188)) is a damn good pick til you get a drop or the Valor badges to buy Platinum Mesh Cloak - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40722)

Other options to raise defense quickly/easily:

The trinket from normal HoL Loken (Seal of the Pantheon - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=36993)) would also make a big difference.
change meta gem to use Eternal Earthsiege Diamond - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=41396)
change chest enchant to 20 defense rating

And these aren't even including raid drops...

I'd also make sure you pay more attention when gemming -- you have a purple gem in a yellow socket on your belt, and a yellow gem in a blue socket on your chest -- wasting two socket bonuses that you could pick up without even changing any of your gems. Most folks will recommend that all your blue sockets should be stam gems anyway (some may argue ALL gems should be stam), I favor the def/stam green gems for yellow sockets (though I imagine an argument could be made for hit/sta assuming you remain uncrittable). Red gems I'd do dodge/sta or exp/sta. But I'm OCD about my socket bonuses...

as far as talents, you're pretty well running the "standard' DW spec, but with one point out of cruelty to anger management... for "infinite rage" fights like so many of the bosses are, you're probably not getting any real advantage out of anger management, though. But for off-tanking or other low-rage scenarios it would be a help. I wouldn't say it's a dire mistake, but you are basically wasting that talent point on many of the boss fights you end up tanking.

Kazeyonoma
05-06-2009, 01:29 PM
Moved to more appropriate forum.

facaa
05-06-2009, 02:25 PM
I'd gear for defense rather than relying on the elixir... it's just taking away from other consumable options, when you have plenty of (fairly easily obtainable) gear options to cover it...

personally I'd say toss the Nerubhide cloak and get one with defense -- the rep cloak from Wyrmrest (Cloak of Peaceful Resolutions - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=44188)) is a damn good pick til you get a drop or the Valor badges to buy Platinum Mesh Cloak - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40722)

Other options to raise defense quickly/easily:

The trinket from normal HoL Loken (Seal of the Pantheon - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=36993)) would also make a big difference.
change meta gem to use Eternal Earthsiege Diamond - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=41396)
change chest enchant to 20 defense rating

And these aren't even including raid drops...

I'd also make sure you pay more attention when gemming -- you have a purple gem in a yellow socket on your belt, and a yellow gem in a blue socket on your chest -- wasting two socket bonuses that you could pick up without even changing any of your gems. Most folks will recommend that all your blue sockets should be stam gems anyway (some may argue ALL gems should be stam), I favor the def/stam green gems for yellow sockets (though I imagine an argument could be made for hit/sta assuming you remain uncrittable). Red gems I'd do dodge/sta or exp/sta. But I'm OCD about my socket bonuses...

as far as talents, you're pretty well running the "standard' DW spec, but with one point out of cruelty to anger management... for "infinite rage" fights like so many of the bosses are, you're probably not getting any real advantage out of anger management, though. But for off-tanking or other low-rage scenarios it would be a help. I wouldn't say it's a dire mistake, but you are basically wasting that talent point on many of the boss fights you end up tanking.

Points taken but looking at that armory link I can see that the set was not my main tanking set.
with my current set that Im wearing now I have the following stats:
Hit rating: 133 (4,08%)
expertise: 21 (5,25%)
defence: 545

This is with the cape that you posted at top.

So, should I still gem for HP?

/Frankke

Auroch_Gorefiend
05-06-2009, 09:48 PM
Personally, I would still gem for HP - especially in Uld. Hit your defense cap by either gear or enchants, activate your meta gem and go all stam. You need to be able to take some pretty fierce boss attacks in addition to environmental dmg at times (I'm thinking Ignis and the sear ground effect for example).

I've found with vigilance I can still put up some very good TPS not hit or expertise capped - around 7-8k if rage is plentiful.

Kerchunk
05-06-2009, 11:06 PM
I just did a Naxx-25 Thaddius and it made me think of this thread.

208 Heroic Strikes for 434,000 damage.
9 Melee Swings for 10,148 damage.

Almost 96%. Getting there!

facaa
05-08-2009, 12:43 AM
Nice Kerchuk.
here is a new link for 25man anub.
Wow Web Stats (http://wowwebstats.com/ehvx46giiwdmo?s=29576-71657&a=x10000000284ff53)
I binded HS on a new key that was easier and I saw that the result was slightly better.

thanx for advice

facaa
05-08-2009, 12:45 AM
Nice, Kerchunk. below is a new link for 25man anub.
Wow Web Stats (http://wowwebstats.com/ehvx46giiwdmo?s=29576-71657&a=x10000000284ff53)
Binded a new key for HS (the one u posted) and the result was better.
thanx :)

Slayerscythe
05-08-2009, 03:02 AM
Ok it isnt that long that i posted in this thread too, but i learned a couple of things since then.
First you put 3 points in deep wounds which tbh in my opinion sucks with 1H wepns, koz the bleed dmg is based on wepn atack, id sugest u use this points to get shield specialization to max which adds block% and rage.
And secnd you shouldnt have agro probs as OT, just plan ahead and be sure to know the fight in advance, i was OT for Nax 25 geard tnks and i could hold agro when needed by spaming HS.I only got HC gear btw

Denaro
05-08-2009, 03:16 AM
Seriously.....8 shieldslams?!!!!!!!!!!!!!??? that is not good mate, seriously the priority should really be SL and Revenge with HS in between.....you need to step up that rotation a lot. Shieldslam is protection warrior their "BUBBLE" button