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Ciderhelm
05-05-2009, 01:42 AM
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Please note: The 25-man video primarily focuses on 25-man issues rather than the entire list of abilities or tactics used throughout the encounter. Please watch the 10-man video and Stratfu's video below to get the full picture!


Yogg-Saron 10-man
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25-Man Notes
We have a 25-man video coming out (with any luck) later this week which will detail many of the differences between 10-man and 25-man. The encounter is exponentially more difficult in a 25-man setting due to the sheer number of things that must be happening independently.

Phase 1
We chose to go with the strategy of tanking Guardians near the door and having two tanks ferrying them to Sara when they were below 30%. Normally, I tanked all of the adds myself and stay just outside the outer clouds so the other two tanks can Taunt off of me. I move the final Guardian to the middle for DPS to finish it off and one of the other tanks picks up any additional adds during phase transition.

Standing on clouds spawns additional Guardians. We found that purposely spawning two additional Guardians worked well for our three-tank setup. The first would be DPS'ed and tanked down by our first ferry tank, the second by our second ferry tank, and the third by me. By the time the first had been killed in the middle by our ranged group assigned to it, he was ready to taunt mine off me as soon as it was ready. Doing this, I had to handle two adds at the beginning at one time, but had a very healthy threat lead by the time DPS got to mine so I could switch off.

The reason for this is because we wanted to reduce the time we spent in phase 1 as much as possible. Since adds come slower at the beginning, spawning two additional adds was possible with our DPS. Spending less time gave us a smaller window of time in which we needed to worry about tank mind controls and helped the overall encounter timer a small bit.

Tightly controlling the use of Taunt abilities made Phase 1 go a lot smoother for us. As much as possible, we use our Hunters to alternate misdirects to bring adds to me, and a Holy Paladin in the door group running Righteous Fury to attract uuncontrolled adds right through me so I can pick them up easily. We found that doing this eliminated the issue of ferry tanks randomly dropping aggro or losing aggro after a mind control.

Ferry tank mind controls have been a pretty big but unavoidable hassle in many of our pulls. Guardians completely drop aggro when a tank is mind controlled and even with a quick dispel it can be difficult to get them back in a pinch.

Mind controls on myself were also frustrating but somewhat easier to deal with. Because we wanted to control our taunts, I simply wouldn't taunt adds back onto me immediately after a mind control, instead letting them hit on whichever DPS had them at the time. Guardians are easy to heal through so long as the healers are aware that aggro has changed, and adds in the DPS group are often being DPSed very quickly anyway and will be brought out by a ferry tank quickly.


Phase 2
There are five important things to know about Phase 2 that will make learning this encounter a lot easier for your group.

First: There are 10 portals for the portal phase in 25-man. There are three on the left, three on the right, three in the back, and one in the front. We stacked these with 9 DPS'ers, primarily Melee DPS & Hunters, and one healer (a Druid who could also debuff the Brain to help DPSers). We assigned exact portal locations and set up and practiced them in General Vezax' room.

Second: Though counterintuitive, your portal team is far more important to what goes on outside of Yogg-Saron than the group that's actually killing adds outside of Yogg-Saron. The big breakthrough for us was realizing that killing all tentacles inside the portals within 20 seconds prevented some Crushers and Corruptors from spawning. We wasted a lot of time moving DPS outside of Yogg to handle tentacle spawns before realizing that simply killing the tentacles in the portals faster would make all the difference.

Third: Constrictors can be broken with Ice Block from Mages and, more importantly, Blessing of Protection from Paladins. Paladins should be able to cover players all around Yogg-Saron when they are position for portals to prevent a loss of DPS that could prevent killing portal tentacles within 20 seconds.

Fourth: Crushers are a lot more important than you might think, and a lot better targets to kill than their health suggests. Unlike prioritizing Corruptors, Crushers are stationary and benefit from allowing DOTs to fully tick as well as as more raid debuffs during the time they are up. In other words, DPS is far more efficient on these than constantly running to Corruptors. When we tried to ignore Crushers we found ourselves with 3-4 Crushers going into Phase 3 and handicapped while one of our tanks was occupied trying to break channeling of Diminished Power on all of them. That's not to say Corruptors should be ignored -- we switch off to hit Corruptors if they're nearby and have already taken some damage before heading to a Crusher on the other side of Yogg-Saron.

Fifth: Curse of Doom and especially Apathy should be interrupted! As a Warrior tank, I normally handle second Crusher spawns if one comes up when another is being finished off, but only until the Feral Druid gets to the new Crusher -- then I immediately go and find a Corruptor that's still up to interrupt and stun. Shaman are amazing for this duty as well due to the quick availability of interrupts. Have a few players to handle these until Melee and Ranged can burn them down.


Phase 3
I won't speak too much in depth here because we haven't finished Phase 3 of Yogg-Saron as of this post (I'll edit this later). I'll just note that there are two unique strategies to dealing with Phase 3 that we've observed and both have brought successful clears by premiere world guilds.

The first is keeping Immortal Guardians directly in front of Yogg-Saron and having Melee DPS burn them down as they come in. Attacks such as Whirlwind will continue to hit Yogg-Saron by doing this.

The second is keeping Immortal Guardians away from Yogg-Saron and having ranged and healers always facing away from Yogg-Saron (and towards the adds) while burning them down. This leaves melee DPS always on Yogg-Saron. This is a bit safer if there are DPS shortages since the add will be out of range of healing Yogg-Saron if he successfully finishes a cast.

Phase 3 is about finding a perfect balance of who is on Yogg and who is on Immortal Guardians. They must be killed quickly, but there is a very real enrage timer to watch out for as well.

Good luck!



http://www.stratfu.com/img/logo.png
Movies & written information reposted with permission. Click here to view Stratfu's Yogg-Saron page to see their full written strategy! (http://www.stratfu.com/strats/YoggSaron)

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StratFu Encounter Outline

The Keepers
The Four Keepers Aid you in your fight against Yogg-Saron. Once you ask for their assistance, you will gain the following buffs upon engaging the boss.

In terms of ease of doing kills with fewer keepers helping, Thorim is certainly the hardest to skip.

Mimiron
Speed of Invention (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=62671): Increases all damage done by 10% and movement speed by 20%.
Destabilization Matrix (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=65210): Mimiron shoots a beam at the Phase 2 tentacles that reduces their attack speed by 100% and their casting speed by 300%.

Freya
Resilience of Nature (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=62670): Increases damage done by 10% and healing recived by 20%
Sanity Well (http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=33991): Regenerates sanity by standing under the beam.

Thorim
Fury of the Storm (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=62702): Increases all damage done by 10% and total HP by 20%
Titanic Storm (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=64172): Shoots a bolt of energy that will kill the weakened versions of otherwise “Immortal” creatures.

Hodir
Fortitude of Frost (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=62650): Increases damage done by 10% and reduces damage taken by 20%
Hodir’s Protective Gaze (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=64174): Hodir will save a player who takes otherwise fatal damage by putting them in a block of ice. This ability has a cooldown.


Phase 1 Abilities
Guardians
Shadow Nova (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=60851): The Guardian blows up when it dies, causing damage to any nearby units (including Sara)
Dark Volley (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=63038): AoE Shadow Volley (interruptible) Places a debuff on everyone that reduces healing by 25%
Dominate Mind (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=63713): Temporary Mind Control effect (dispellable)

Sara
Sara’s Fervor (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=63138): Increases a friendly target’s damage by 20% but also increases damage taken by 100%.
Sara’s Blessing (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=63134): Heals a friendly target for 27-33k, but causes 60k shadow damage over 20 sec.
Sara’s Anger (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=63147): Inflicts 12.5k shadow damage every 3 sec, but increases physical damage by 12k.


Phase 2 Abilities
Sara
Brain Link (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=63803): Links two raid members together, dealing damage and deceasing sanity as long as they are 20+ yards away from each other. The link between the two will turn from red to yellow when it is safe. This effect will break if one member enters a portal.
Psychosis (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=63795): Inflicts 7.5k shadow damage and reduces sanity.
Death Ray (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=63891): Shoots a stream of energy that tracks a target dealing 20k nature damage per 0 seconds (RUN AWAY)
Malady of the Mind (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=63830): Inflicts 5k shadow damage and causes 4 seconds of horror and reduces sanity. It will try to chain to another raid member with in 10 yards at the end of the 4 seconds.

Crusher Tentacles
Diminish Power (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=64145): Cast on the entire raid (including the portal groups), it reduces damage done by 20% and stacks up to 4 times (one per alive crusher.)

Corruptor Tentacles
All these abilities are dispellable.
Curse of Doom (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=64157): Deals 20k damage after 12 seconds. (Curse)
Apathy (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=64156): Reduces attack and casting speed as well as movement speed by 60% for 20 sec. (Magic)
Black Plague (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=64153): Periodic stun that lasts 2 seconds with a 24 second debuff duration. (Disease)
Draining Poison (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=64152): 3.5k damage and 1400 mana drained every 3 seconds for 18 seconds. (Poison)

Portals
Lunatic Gaze (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=64168): deals shadow damage and decreases sanity.
Induce Madness (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=64059): The brain channels Induce Madness, starting with the spawning of portals and lasting for 60 seconds. If anyone is still in the portal after the 60 seconds have passed and the channel is complete, they are immediately driven insane and mind controlled by Yogg.


Phase 3 Abilities
Empowering Shadows (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=64486): Cast by Yogg on one of the Immortals, this powerful HoT heals them rapidly.
Lunatic Gaze (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=64164): Deals damage and reduces sanity (a stronger version of the Phase 2 ability)


The Fight
There are three phases:
Phase 1, the raid is together up top and fights the Guardians of Yogg-Saron to force him to appear.
Phase 2 the raid splits into two groups, one group staying up top to fight his tentacles and the other taking portals into his mind to attack his brain directly.
Phase 3, the final phase, the raid is reunited and work together to kill him.UI/ADDON INFORMATION:
Lore's UI (10 Man Videos): http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f211/45772-lore-s-ui.html
Ciderhelm's UI (25 Man Videos): http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f211/41095-ciderhelm-ui-information.html
Please post any questions about UI/Addon's in their respective threads and not in this thread

wayne
05-05-2009, 02:13 AM
Can't wait for this one!!

Guild progressing nicely through 10man so hopefully will put this movie to good use soon.

Dares
05-05-2009, 03:23 AM
Omg!! U gusy rock

swelt
05-05-2009, 03:41 AM
There seem to be two variant strats for phase 1. In some vids I've watched, the majority of the group hang by the door and there is a second smaller group in the middle - new adds are taken down to low health by the door team then taunted and finished in the middle. The other strat (and the one featured in the 10 man vid) is to simply have the raid fight around the middle and avoid the clouds.

We started working on the 10 man this weekend and have been discussing the relative merits of both approaches. Are there any specific tips for making the strat illustrated in the vid work (ie. how to position to minimise risk of standing in clouds, etc).

Deadlykod
05-05-2009, 04:13 AM
I have a question , what was your setup for this fight ? how many tanks and healers ?

fr0d0b0ls0n
05-05-2009, 04:13 AM
Clouds rotate clockwise or counter-clockwise around Yogg-Saron. With that in mind is not that hard to avoid them.

At 1:45 in that video the tank makes a very bad decision, trying to avoid the cloud running in the same direction as the cloud. He almost spawns an extra add.

Great video as always. :)

Magnarosh
05-05-2009, 04:53 AM
Clouds rotate clockwise or counter-clockwise around Yogg-Saron. With that in mind is not that hard to avoid them.

At 1:45 in that video the tank makes a very bad decision, trying to avoid the cloud running in the same direction as the cloud. He almost spawns an extra add.

Great video as always. :)

correct on the first comment. our note was not to run in circles to avoid clouds w/e possible. on an individual basis phase 1 is not that hard. it's just a matter of keeping every individual (including myself) paying attention and keeping mobile.

Umokthar
05-05-2009, 05:30 AM
thanx again for guide

SNB
05-05-2009, 05:37 AM
We used the melee on the adds in phase 3, with there back to Yogg Saron, that way there aoe ability's also hit YS while killing off the adds :).

Ciderhelm
05-05-2009, 06:07 AM
Just added Stratfu's excellent guides. The full written guide is on their page. I'll be adding in our own written portions as well. And again, we'll have a TankSpot 25-man video up soon too!

renrider
05-05-2009, 06:13 AM
There seem to be two variant strats for phase 1. In some vids I've watched, the majority of the group hang by the door and there is a second smaller group in the middle - new adds are taken down to low health by the door team then taunted and finished in the middle. The other strat (and the one featured in the 10 man vid) is to simply have the raid fight around the middle and avoid the clouds.

We started working on the 10 man this weekend and have been discussing the relative merits of both approaches. Are there any specific tips for making the strat illustrated in the vid work (ie. how to position to minimise risk of standing in clouds, etc).

In 10 we found it quite easy just to have tank in middle grab each mob with ranged sticking close to each other and just staying in the open spaces they can find as they come up. Melee runs out of the middle when the mobs are low so they avoid damage although unless they have the +100% dmg debuff they can eat it without much hassle.

In 25 it was too risky having the whole raid amongst the clouds so we had a rotation of 3 tanks who would pick mobs up and drag them into the middle when they were low and had a group of 4 or so ranged dps who would run in with the tank and finish it from distance. We originally tried having a tank (or two) in the middle who would taunt but we had too many problems with it. Others seem to have it work though.

Ciderhelm
05-05-2009, 06:45 AM
Phase 1 and 2 notes have been added.

Dorfster
05-05-2009, 09:11 AM
Quick note for p1: the Dominate Mind MC is a special case, and can also be cleansed by a paladin. The video only mentions Dispel and Purge as viable spells.

Paperplate
05-05-2009, 11:16 AM
For me, tanking P1 of Yogg is the most fun thing in the fight. I'm not sure why I enjoy it so much. Our P1 strat uses two tanks that alternate handling the guardians. We tank a guardian away from the clouds on the outside ring while the melee clobbers them. Once they drop to about 40% health or so the tank kites it to Sara where the ranged finished them off as quickly as possible. Occasionally we might get behind and the tanks deliberately taunt one from the other so that there is always an add able to be DPS'd by the melee.

I have a couple quick videos I made showing how things can go wrong and what it looks like when done right.

Wrong: YoggBloopers.wmv Download File on FileFront
Right: YoggP1.wmv Download File on FileFront

We toyed with the idea of tanking and dps'ing them in the center but I agree with what was mentioned about so many people tryin to dodge clouds. You're just asking for an accident.

Also, key to this strat is ranged being in position for the next add. If they wait until the add gets there before figuring out a good spot to dps from they will fail to kill the add quick enough and you might get caught with two tanks trying to be in the center and no one to pickup the next add that's causing a ruckus in your raid.

P.S. Sorry I don't know how to prevent the giant boxes for what should be simple links.

Darksend
05-05-2009, 11:38 AM
As a tank having killed him 3 times every week (twice in 10 and once in 25 every week) i can tell you that it is very easy to recognize the patterns in the clouds. For example 2 or 3 times per phase 1 you will get a spawn where 4 clouds line up in a direct line from sara to the door. When this add comes i tell my DPS that its the 4 cloud add and they stop dps around 50 because it takes a good 10 seconds to get that one into the middle

Also, from the hours of wiping the 1st night we killed him even then i was able to judge how close you can get. You can dance REALLY close to them without spawning. Its mostly about knowing how many dots there are, if a ranged will actually interrupt or will it sit 1 yard away from hitting her and start casting and die without killing her, etc. Those little things come very quickly but it is the type of thing you can only learn through experience and watching a video even from a tank pov will not help you there.

Aerona
05-05-2009, 01:56 PM
Does Yogg-Saron need a tank on him in Phase 3? I didn't see Lore taking any physical hits from him but I might not have been looking hard enough. He also might not have been the tank.

Also, what is the damage on the raid like in the brain room?

Very good video. Very easy to follow and explained quite a complex fight in a way that was easily understood.

Gertiploiss
05-05-2009, 05:22 PM
How did you personally decide how to split up the portal and ground groups?

plitschplatsch
05-06-2009, 05:56 AM
I have a question about Empowering Shadows. What are viable ways of dealing with that ability? Can the cast be interrupted, do you move the adds away when he casts it, do you actually tank them away from the boss, do you nuke the add down which gets the buff?

We hit the enrage timer recently with p1 and p2 going very well so something went wrong in p3 and i think that this ability might be it.

Ciderhelm
05-06-2009, 06:39 AM
I have a question about Empowering Shadows. What are viable ways of dealing with that ability? Can the cast be interrupted, do you move the adds away when he casts it, do you actually tank them away from the boss, do you nuke the add down which gets the buff?

We hit the enrage timer recently with p1 and p2 going very well so something went wrong in p3 and i think that this ability might be it.
Kill Immortal Guardians fast and Empowering Shadows won't finish. At least, that's my very limited understanding of it, so if anyone can correct that, feel free.

Adds really need to be dying in under 10 seconds in Phase 3 or you'll get overwhelmed with them. You don't have the option of switching off but you don't need to, either.

Myko
05-06-2009, 07:01 AM
Do you tank Crusher tentacles? Is it possible? Does the tank need to get out when the buff they get from damage stacks to high? StratFu mentions tank jousting in and out to interrupt. With no tank you can't have any melee on it, is it a good idea to let melee kill constrictors and corruptors while waiting for portals?

Lore
05-06-2009, 09:34 AM
To a point. Melee will only have about 10 seconds in the tentacle room before they need to get in position for portals. It's far more important to have every portal taken immediately than whatever damage they could do to corruptors.

Darksend
05-06-2009, 02:40 PM
My concern is that without thorim to kill them, will empowered shadows heal them back up to the point they start to regain their damage buff when doing hard modes (as even if you cannot kill them you need to get them to low %s because there is no way a tank can handle that many fully stacked adds)

from what I understand though is that if the adds are more than 20 yards from yogg they will not be healed but again this is all speculation

Ciderhelm
05-06-2009, 09:13 PM
He's dead, 25-man video will be coming soon.

Krenian
05-06-2009, 09:19 PM
Death to the tentacle masta!

Ciderhelm
05-07-2009, 06:37 AM
25-man movie is uploading and encoding at the moment. Donors will be able to download both an unedited kill video and the guide video. About 2 hours on YouTube videos and hopefully about the same on donor downloads.

Ciderhelm
05-07-2009, 06:59 AM
The unedited version is up for Donors.

Ciderhelm
05-07-2009, 07:28 AM
Yogg-Saron 25-man is embedded in the original post now! Enjoy!

swelt
05-07-2009, 07:53 AM
So much great info, thanks again to all contributors. I also think it's really handy to have the script there to refer back to specifics... wonder if that's something we could see again?

Ciderhelm
05-07-2009, 08:00 AM
Guide version is now available for donors as well! Enjoy!

Inaara
05-07-2009, 06:03 PM
Amazing job as always Cider and Lore.

Trondhjem
05-07-2009, 06:35 PM
Very well done! Many thanks to you two and all those who helped.
Thanks you for all these Project Marmot Videos - it's just fantastic!

Casz
05-08-2009, 04:04 AM
Question about your UI.

The sunder armor, thunderclap, and demo shout onto the left side of your UI.

How did make them stay and also show the timer/application?

I am thinking Satrine's Buff Frame or Power Auras.

Bluedot
05-08-2009, 06:35 AM
Question about your UI.

The sunder armor, thunderclap, and demo shout onto the left side of your UI.

How did make them stay and also show the timer/application?

I am thinking Satrine's Buff Frame or Power Auras.


The mod is called Auracle (Like Oracle.. but aura.. lol).
Cider made us all get it to do this boss >.< A bit of a pain to setup but pretty cool really.

It is also very helpful to setup a couple macros.
Hodir freezes people if they are about to die for 6 seconds. If you need to get to a portal or out of a gas cloud that 6 seconds can cause a wipe. Same deal if you have pallies doing their HoP.
I setup:

/CancelAura Flash Freeze
/CancelAura Hand of Protection
/CancelAura Ice Block

Unless you are a mage you don't need the Ice Block one.

Cider may have mentioned this in the movie (can't watch it while at work) but we had a ranged calling out what the ranged where supposed to be killing. He would make the decision on when to finish off a Corrupter, when to kill Constricters, etc.

Casz
05-08-2009, 10:26 AM
Auracle doesnt seem to have the feature to put each window into columns and rows...

So guess Ciderhelm made the 1 Column 3 Row with 3 windows?

EDIT: never mind... found under the windows name in this case "Target"

renrider
05-10-2009, 01:19 AM
Our first 25man kill a week or 2 ago from rogue and elemental PoVs:
http://www.sixpackguild.com/AVIS/6P-Yogg-Saron.mkv

Because of the length and the quality its 887mb and i'm not sure of the speeds if a lot of people jump on it although it should be fine.

Was the first time we got a clean p3 and only about our 5th hour on him IIRC so theres a few things that could be done better but its a decent kill.

Starlink
05-11-2009, 01:35 PM
Gratz for kill.

I have a nab question for you! I need to know the name of the add on to see the bar on the enemy. I use the Bliz bar but your bar are better :D

Roarc
05-12-2009, 03:43 PM
What setup have people been using on this fight? We're being held back by DPS it seems and we're running the fabulous 2 tank / 3 healer setup in 25 man. Not sure if we've missed something vital…*We've gotten to phase 3 quite a few tries now but we just get zonked by in general having tentacles left from phase 2 and / or too many adds spawning.

Regards
Roarc

renrider
05-13-2009, 01:15 AM
wow you should have heaps of dps then either they cant play their class or they are executing the strategy badly =/

we run 3tanks 5healers

Roarc
05-13-2009, 01:24 AM
Haha, well yeah, I was a bit surprised when our raid leader said that last night. Two tanks work quite ok even if I have my worries for phase 3 and we have zero tolerance for tank mishaps in phase 1 and with only 2 tanks in phase 3 the same sort of goes there (i.e. if dps falls behind in any way we're sort of screwed with no backup).

Regards
Roarc

Mindy
05-14-2009, 09:36 PM
Finally got our first 25-man kill, and I'm emotionally drained heh. Went with 3 tanks and 6 healers. The biggest aspect of the fight is phase transitions, either from phase 1 to phase 2, or from illusion to brain phase. They need to be speedy and smooth because falling behind always seems to lead to death. We can't ever having 2 crushers up for too long, or have more than 3 brain phases or we fall too far behind.

There was a slip up in phase 1 where an add died too far away, but the extra tank helped us recover. So judge how well your raid performs if you need that 3rd tank (if you wish to go with Roarc's guild strat).

On our kill attempt, only a couple of corruptor tentacles were up. If possible have some coordination with people DPS'ing the brain to wait until every crusher tentacle is dead before going into phase 3 (I died once cause we went to phase 3 while I was DPS'ing one and it instantly owned me).

In phase 3 we had melee on adds and casters on YS. We tried the opposite, but adds just got out of control and piled up on us. Having a 3rd tank was crucial due to the fact that I had to go into a sanity well to regain my sanity (I went all the way down to 20...bad timing turning to slam an add while getting it into position?), and the backup was ready to fill in my place for a bit.

swelt
05-17-2009, 06:56 AM
Got 10 man down today. For us, the biggest success factor was shifting from 3 to 2 healers, although I think practicing with 3 for a while was good experience. We also discovered that hunters can tranq shot MC'd people (as well as the enraged guardians) if you happen to be short on dispellers (or it's your dispellers MC'd).

shez
05-18-2009, 05:06 AM
could someone please explain "jousting" the crusher tanticles?

Do i just stay out of melee range and go in when it casts diminishing power?

Devestate and shield slam don't work? I hit it with those skills and they didn't stop the diminish power channel.

Edit: I noticed there is a cast diminish power and a channel diminish power, whats their diff? I can interupt the channeled 1 but not casted one

stampy
05-18-2009, 02:44 PM
(nm)

Mindy
05-18-2009, 08:55 PM
could someone please explain "jousting" the crusher tanticles?

Do i just stay out of melee range and go in when it casts diminishing power?

Devestate and shield slam don't work? I hit it with those skills and they didn't stop the diminish power channel.

Edit: I noticed there is a cast diminish power and a channel diminish power, whats their diff? I can interupt the channeled 1 but not casted one

When you "joust" all you have to do is run in and do a melee attack on the tentacle and run out. A white or yellow swing will work. Make sure you do it when it's channeling and not casting (that is, the casting bar is depleting rather than filling assuming default casting bar mechanics).

If you don't wanna risk getting 1-shot, heroic throw also interrupts the channeling.


On a different note, we were grateful to be able to one-shot 10-man YS, though we came up with an unusual bug(?) at phase 2. The melee in the brain room was able to bring the brain to sub 20% and we never got a phase transition until they ran out, the induce madness was cast, and got another crusher spawn.

Johandres
05-19-2009, 02:00 AM
I don't get it. On the video, I clearly saw everyone, who were assigned to get
through the portals, dealing with one room's adds.

We tried it last night. There were three of us who were assigned to take the portal but we ended up in different rooms, dealing with separate adds. I saw how the Dragonsoul was created but another one was watching Lich King torturing a champion.

How can we deal with the same adds? It's difficult to kill them alone. I never make it out without getting insane.

Rhiannon
05-19-2009, 03:38 AM
Sounds like you were on the receiving end of a bug. Each particular set of portals is meant to (and always has in my experience) lead to the same particular scenario.

Squashed
05-19-2009, 05:00 AM
Got him down in 10 last night. Turning point was going from tanking guardians on the outside to tanking them on the inside and dodging the clouds while killing adds. After we managed that, we solo tanked the fight running 3 healers 1 tank 6 dps (3 melee 3 ranged) with 3 melee & myself (prot warrior) taking the 4 portals that spawned.

Just like Eventide, first P3 we hit we won. Melted the brain in ~3 portal phases (was frost DK, ret pal, prot war, fury war).

got the tanking trinket though!

Casz
05-21-2009, 06:31 AM
Ciderhelm mention something about thunderclap helps the mages... I wonder just how is that?

Squashed
05-22-2009, 05:11 AM
Arcane talent, torment of the weak. Increases damage done to slowed targets (counts attack speed debuffs, thunderclap) by 12%

Blˇˇdfrenzy
05-22-2009, 06:49 AM
Killed him in 10m last night. Two of the most important things we learned for phase 2. 1. Be in position for your portal before it opens, that will allow more brain dps time. Affliction Locks are full of win on Brain DPS.
2. Decursing above ground is of utmost importance. There is almost no damage bieng done up top. Its all debuffs that can be removed. Having someone in the brain room that can remove the stun debuff is also very important.

Jonyxz
05-26-2009, 04:04 AM
The mod is called Auracle (Like Oracle.. but aura.. lol).
Hodir freezes people if they are about to die for 6 seconds. If you need to get to a portal or out of a gas cloud that 6 seconds can cause a wipe. Same deal if you have pallies doing their HoP.
I setup:

/CancelAura Flash Freeze
/CancelAura Hand of Protection
/CancelAura Ice Block


Good macro also for phase 3 when tanks have aggro on immortals and loose it if they get i-blocked.

In phase 3 I'm having problems picking up the immortals spawning behind the boss before they hit some melee. Someone knows any macro or addon that can help targeting?

Squashed
05-26-2009, 05:40 AM
Jonyxz, I would recommend having a holy paladin in the back running righteous fury. This would ideally direct adds through you to the paladin, your job is to taunt them before they reach the raid.

Also, I'm not sure of the hitbox on yogg, but asking them to step back as much as possible (and group up) would also help.

littlethief
05-26-2009, 06:48 AM
that is some cool and relaxing music you have there.
from who is it?

Del
05-26-2009, 09:22 AM
Went to Yogg 10 last night with a ranged heavy group, in hopes of trivializing phase 1... So much for that.


The stepping in clouds got cleaner as the night went on, and overall we were able to keep up with the spawns. However, around 25% (on sara) we were getting far too many guardians spawning to control, which either led into a sloppy transition into phase 2, or a wipe. At this point I'm unsure how to proceed, any tips on being in a better position entering phase 2?

Inaara
05-26-2009, 09:28 AM
Went to Yogg 10 last night with a ranged heavy group, in hopes of trivializing phase 1... So much for that.


The stepping in clouds got cleaner as the night went on, and overall we were able to keep up with the spawns. However, around 25% (on sara) we were getting far too many guardians spawning to control, which either led into a sloppy transition into phase 2, or a wipe. At this point I'm unsure how to proceed, any tips on being in a better position entering phase 2?


A balanced raid is key, remember that melee is extremely usefull, if not required for P2.

Denaro
05-28-2009, 04:47 AM
I got a question though. We will be running this with 2 healers(druid priest). In p2...how many ppl go into the portals and also what roles go in...is it ok to just send in full melee group?

and in p3...when you kill the adds....you kill it near YS so you can aoe cleave/TC or whatever right? my question there is...maybe I misunderstood but doesn't the add if it dies summons a healing aoe that heals Yogg also?

Inform pls.

Avandar
05-31-2009, 11:00 AM
We're going to be going for our first yogg25 tonight. Wondering about the raid setup. For portals, would 1 hunter, 1 druid healer + 8 melee be acceptable? 3 tanks, 6 healers 8 ranged for the rest?

Coldbear
06-07-2009, 09:46 PM
We're going to be going for our first yogg25 tonight. Wondering about the raid setup. For portals, would 1 hunter, 1 druid healer + 8 melee be acceptable? 3 tanks, 6 healers 8 ranged for the rest?

Nice sig, there <Core> of Greymane. Portals seemed to work pretty good, got some unlucky skull spawns where no matter which way you turned you were facing a skull. Also had issues with no-one really knowing if all the tentacles inside the room were dead or close to it.

Thinking we should've called out 'left side good' and 'right side good' and 'back good' so that the portal group would know who needs help inside there, but that might clutter up vent.

Tanking worked well with the center tank in dpsgear/spec in p1, and healing was phenomenal at times. Some people's dps output was the missing link imo.

Q for TankSpot crew: what is the easiest way to set up interrupts on Guardians that are in the process of being ferried to the center in p1? Those targets are not being focus-fired by people used to pressing their interrupt button (read: Kick), so alot of the volleys go off, slowing the add down.

Darksend
06-08-2009, 06:30 AM
Q for TankSpot crew: what is the easiest way to set up interrupts on Guardians that are in the process of being ferried to the center in p1? Those targets are not being focus-fired by people used to pressing their interrupt button (read: Kick), so alot of the volleys go off, slowing the add down.

shield bash strangulate druid bash and hoj

even with a 1 minute cooldown and it being on global I can get a decent amount of sub 30% interrupts with bash as a druid

Kerchunk
06-09-2009, 01:24 PM
How many portals spawn on 10-man, 3 or 4?

Are people sending 1 Healer and 2 DPS into the portals, or 3 DPS and hoping they can survive by avoiding the damage?


Also, how much damage do you have to do in Phase 2? I assume it's not 11M so at what percentage does the fight transition to Phase 3?

Kazeyonoma
06-09-2009, 02:14 PM
From what I could tell yesterday in the 10 man there's 4, basically 1 portal in front of each of the 4 NPCS if you have them helping you. We were going in with 3 dps and 1 hybrid dps (shadow priest, ret paladin, boomkin whichever we had) and the hybrid would help heal in the event people got low.

i think 30% is the transition to phase 3, we were able to consistently get him to phase 3 after 3 portal phases. using melee to take the portal.

Dubzil
06-09-2009, 02:16 PM
Finally downed him in 10 man last night, we had 1 shammy healer and 3 melee dps going in the portals, got him to P3 after 2 portal phases. Heroism on first portal phase got him to about 50%

Coldbear
06-17-2009, 10:32 PM
1% on 25man tonight, hit enrage and boom instant wipe

seems like if we get unlucky with crusher spawns or a few key portal-group people get constricted at the wrong time or we lose a healer or tank to some RNG there's just no way to recover

guessing our dps is also not really all that, it's a backwater server and we have very few people on the bench ready to come in when someone has an issue in the middle of the raid

really makes me wonder about hearing so many guilds who get to phase 3 and insta-kill him first time in p3 - especially after the nerfs?

we run with 2 MT's and a feral center tank in dps gear for p1, popping one cloud at the start
p2 we run melee + hunters filling in + a healer into portals, pop Heroism on first brain and speed-potions on second, and try to time the beginning of p3 so a crusher is about to die or just died
p3 we have melee on adds except for a top rogue and myself (feral dps), but we assemble in front of boss for a little more space and easier to orient - which means I have to Mangle instead of Shred, but no big deal I would think

any suggestions?

Q: with the nerfs to p1 is it worth front-loading the trouble and try to get lucky with popping two clouds at the start?

Razzos
06-23-2009, 12:26 AM
Hi, i got question. We are on this boss in 10-man and we are not for hard mode, we just want to kill him normally. So we have to speak to every of 4 keepers at the start of fight? Because someone told, we have to ask them for help.

agranyoch
06-23-2009, 01:00 AM
Hi, i got question. We are on this boss in 10-man and we are not for hard mode, we just want to kill him normally. So we have to speak to every of 4 keepers at the start of fight? Because someone told, we have to ask them for help.
Yes, you have to speak to the keepers prior to encaging if you want them helping you out during the encounter.

Tsarlena
06-29-2009, 02:31 PM
so how many tanks is this fight? one or 2?

squats
06-29-2009, 04:25 PM
so how many tanks is this fight? one or 2?
3 makes it easyer

if your talking normal mode, 2

Tsarlena
06-30-2009, 07:46 AM
3 makes it easyer

if your talking normal mode, 2

sorry ment to say for 10man. is Yogg ever tanked or just the adds? i didn't see him have a melee attack.

mistersix
06-30-2009, 04:22 PM
Question: when corruptors cast curse of doom and apathy how many people can they hit with each ability? Is a single target effected? Many? We got to phase 3 for the first time last night and we're still trying to perfect our phase 2 approach. An answer to this question would help tremendously.

Thanks in advance.

agranyoch
07-01-2009, 12:52 AM
Yogg ever tanked or just the adds? i didn't see him have a melee attack.
Yogg can't move and doesn't have a melee attack. Only thing he does is Lunatic Gaze.

Tsarlena
07-01-2009, 05:38 PM
Yogg can't move and doesn't have a melee attack. Only thing he does is Lunatic Gaze.
thank you. i'll make sure my tanks know that.

littleboots
07-19-2009, 03:27 PM
I saw in the 25 man video that eventide went with casters on immortals and melee on Yogg. Is that pretty much the accepted way to do the fight? I have seen alot of other threads that mentioned the opposite. I am a devout ciderhelm disciple and I dont deviate from suggested strats but i was just wondering if this is how eventide still handles P3 (i.e. melee on Yogg, casters on immortals?)

Szantres
07-25-2009, 10:03 PM
First time poster long time reader kheeh. First I wanna thank everyone for all the hard work that they've put into the site. I know I always look here first for suggestions and tips on strats etc... now to my "please helps"...

Ours is a fairly new guild and we've just now been clearing to yogg with few hiccups (mimiron gave us a bump but our strat now is fairly solid). So now here we are at yogg and we've been struggling making little progress week after week. We use 2 tanks 3 healers 2 ranged and 3 melee. We are very inconsistant getting to phase 2 (40% or so) and we always have 1 or 2 adds left over once we get there. The real hiccup comes in phase 2 however when we put our 3 melee and a healer in the portals. The outside group is having severe problems downing the tentacles outside and we wind up being overwhelmed with them by the time the portal groups comes outta the portals. Basically the whole fight is a cluster... a couple of solutions: Using 1 tank so we dont have to taunt the guys in phase 1 across the room and can just stand em in the middle the whole time. We originally decided to stand near the door so that the melee would have minimal fears of hitting a cloud. I think this would help us out in the phase2 chaosnessity. Thoughts? Suggestions?

Tempestas
07-25-2009, 11:19 PM
First time poster long time reader kheeh. First I wanna thank everyone for all the hard work that they've put into the site. I know I always look here first for suggestions and tips on strats etc... now to my "please helps"...

Ours is a fairly new guild and we've just now been clearing to yogg with few hiccups (mimiron gave us a bump but our strat now is fairly solid). So now here we are at yogg and we've been struggling making little progress week after week. We use 2 tanks 3 healers 2 ranged and 3 melee. We are very inconsistant getting to phase 2 (40% or so) and we always have 1 or 2 adds left over once we get there. The real hiccup comes in phase 2 however when we put our 3 melee and a healer in the portals. The outside group is having severe problems downing the tentacles outside and we wind up being overwhelmed with them by the time the portal groups comes outta the portals. Basically the whole fight is a cluster... a couple of solutions: Using 1 tank so we dont have to taunt the guys in phase 1 across the room and can just stand em in the middle the whole time. We originally decided to stand near the door so that the melee would have minimal fears of hitting a cloud. I think this would help us out in the phase2 chaosnessity. Thoughts? Suggestions?

Personally I think if your going for a regular kill on Yogg on 10 man you should put 4 dps in the portal, this will do a big boost to the dps inside and will allow yogg to be stuned much more quickly, your goal really is geting him stuned in about 20 seconds, if you can achieve this it will prevent tentacles from spawning and the outside group will have plenty of time to catch up. As for a 4th dps choice if you have an elemental shaman(balance druid works too but not as effective) send them in there as a "healer" and they can also dps, I did this fight a lot as ele and doing that primarily with my mostly 25 man naxx gear I was able to two shot a tentacle via Flame Shock + Lava Burst, of course chain lightning does wonders on some visions.

As for your raid composition I would consider switching to 2 healers because it is a very easy fight to heal, damage is very minimal when the fight is done correctly. Try to get a 3rd ranged dps in this spot to keep a balance of ranged and melee of course either will do really.

If you do this you should EASILY take Yogg down, good luck on your attempts and grats in advanced on the kill.

Purechaos
07-27-2009, 08:22 PM
Hey my Guild is Pushing 10 man Yog right now.

Currently We got the outside down but are having alot of issues with people going in the portal. I dont go in for me being the tank so im asking to help them.

But what do you bring in? Any reason to bring in someone over another? Should we take in a healer? If we do where should they be? How should melee Go about attacking them in there?

IT seems with sending 4 melee in they end up getting real low on health and sending a healer in seems to have LOS issues or something along those lines. So we tried 3 melee and a ele and same issue. So any ideas would be great.

Basically as much info i can get on perfecting the brain phase, this seems to be our big draw back.

Tempestas
07-27-2009, 09:29 PM
The elemental shaman should be able to take out the back 3 tentacles easily by them self, it really should only take around 10 seconds or so for them to do this, after this you should have them bouncing around getting heals off on the melee when possible, it is not the easiest thing in the world, however it is possible.

Eta
07-28-2009, 10:14 AM
Hi guys, love the work you do here and although I am not a tank, as a healer, your stratgies are greatly appreciated. I do have a question about phase one, as it is not a topic I have seen discussed anywhere else, I am just wondering if anyone here has encountered it.

On phase one, as a resto shaman healer, I had been dropping totems beneficial to the raid and myself. As a guild, we had made it past phase one a few times, but with a lot of struggles. However, early on in our attempts last night, I noticed that when the clouds passed over where my totems were located, new adds were spawning, so my question would be, has anyone else seen this happen? If it is an intended fight mechanic, it seems rather extreme.

I suggested to our raid that I would not drop my totems and all classes with pets put them on passive stay at the entrance, and after that phase one was a cake walk, but in talking with some more experienced guilds on our server, no one else seems to have seen this occur. Has anyone else here encountered this? As a side note, yes, I am aware that according to many guides totems are not supposed to spawn adds, but these spawns were seen by several guild members, so we can confirm that adds were indeed spawning from totems. Thanks again guys, really do love the work you do here.

Tempestas
07-28-2009, 01:24 PM
When I was doing this fight on 10 man this did end up happening one night so I did have to stop using them for phase 1, I have not seen it happen since and have purposely put totems in the path of a cloud and it has not spawned an add, so my conclusion on this is that it is just a random bug that happens every so often but if you see it happening consistently then your really getting unlucky in which you should stop using totems for p1.

mistersix
07-28-2009, 01:45 PM
Pets and totems don't spawn adds (at least by intention) only players do.

Eta
07-28-2009, 05:55 PM
Pets and totems don't spawn adds (at least by intention) only players do.


Yeah, I understand the intention is that they don't, I was just wondering if anyone else had actually encountered this issue. We will probably try the totems again in another fight just to see if they do cause more issues. All I know is once we left the totems up and the pets on passive at the door, the fight was very controllable.

Rivaea
08-04-2009, 01:55 AM
My 10man group just reached Yogg for the first time on Sunday, and it was a 3 hour long wipe-fest on phase 1. Tonight, a similar wipe-fest was occurring though we did achieve phase 2 twice out of around 40 attempts.

Our main problem was, of course, people hitting clouds. Now, as a melee, I didn't find it difficult at all to move away from them. The cloud near Sara is easy to avoid and getting out of range for the add explosions wasn't hard either: I just looked for the hole and ran through it to get out.

The problem was our ranged dps and healers. It seemed like every time I turned around, someone had hit a cloud and soon enough we were overrun. Is there a trick to learning to avoid the clouds or does it just take loads of practice?

It has been a very frustrating 2 nights for me and my team, so any help with phase 1 would be greatly appreciated.

Tempestas
08-04-2009, 08:36 AM
You must know two things about the clouds, first particle density should be maxed, second the clouds have a larger range then there actual size.

Arianne
08-04-2009, 10:20 AM
We found it best to make sure to tell ranged/healers that they had to stay in a group and they had to stay on the south side of the room and that they had to stay on the edge of the water. If a cloud comes on that line then they move back out and then back in after that cloud passes. Every once in awhile there's a bad cloud conjunction and you have to run around for a bit (far out and wait and then back in), but overall that's the strategy that we've found works well.

weber
08-04-2009, 03:07 PM
My 10man group just reached Yogg for the first time on Sunday, and it was a 3 hour long wipe-fest on phase 1. Tonight, a similar wipe-fest was occurring though we did achieve phase 2 twice out of around 40 attempts.

Our main problem was, of course, people hitting clouds. Now, as a melee, I didn't find it difficult at all to move away from them. The cloud near Sara is easy to avoid and getting out of range for the add explosions wasn't hard either: I just looked for the hole and ran through it to get out.

The problem was our ranged dps and healers. It seemed like every time I turned around, someone had hit a cloud and soon enough we were overrun. Is there a trick to learning to avoid the clouds or does it just take loads of practice?

It has been a very frustrating 2 nights for me and my team, so any help with phase 1 would be greatly appreciated.

We having problems in phase 1 aswell. Our group made out of shaman+druid+priest <--healers, dk+dk+pala - melee dps, mage hunter - ranged dps, and 2 paladin tanks. our best shot was to get sara down to about 10 pct of her hp, after 2-3 hour of whiping we called it. We did teh dodging tactic where we all move around, not the other one where u pull the adds out and in of where sara is and let them expload there. I gues we just asked for whipes this way. Most of us didnt had truble dodging the clouds, but some1 , mostly melee sooner or late made a mistake and we ended up having 3 , and from that on we whiped. Other problem we had that i have to point out is that the aoe they cast is a pain in the neck, if 2 of those hits the raid, its a whipe . Not 2 mention we sort of noticed that mages mirror image spawns adds, maybe im wrong maybe not, but thats what we noticed. So ... my question would be is the pull-adds-to-door-and-back-to-sara-at-low-health-and-let-them-die-there tactic better? we tryed that once or twice but dps couldnt controll themselfs :(.
PS:we got 2 10 man teams at yogg now. :(

Aamaretto
08-16-2009, 11:34 PM
We got our guild-first 10-man Yogg-Saron kill, partially in thanks to the awesome video and strats posted on this thread. I would like to point out something that seems to have worked for us:

Several posters advise against sending a healer down into the Brain Room. We wiped multiple times trying different things - sending down 4 melee DPS; sending down 3 melee DPS instead of 4 to minimize the heals needed; sending down 3 melee DPS plus a hybrid; sending down some melee and a ranged and a hybrid - but the strategy that got us to Phase 3 twice was 3 melee, 1 healer in the Brain Room.

All our melee are normally 3k+ on boss fights, so that helped a lot. I assigned portals to all four people going down and would call out on vent before the portals came up so that everyone could be positioned before they went in. We found that the portals sometimes spawned N-S-E-W, but would sometimes be more in front of a Keeper so I made a macro to remind people which portal was theirs:

Run RIGHT - Melee 1 - West/Freya
Run LEFT - Melee 2 - East/Etc.

That way all the Brain Room people would be coordinated and not "steal" portals from one another, and we could basically zone in simultaneously.

There's not a lot of healing that needs to be done in the Brain Room, but that allowed for our melee to go nuts DPS'ing down the tentacles and not worry at all about their health. After they go to the brain, I (as the healer down there) would pop out while they dps'ed, to help the other healers cleanse and heal in the Tentacle Room.

I don't think I can stress enough how important the Brain Room team is. Get in, get through it fast, and DPS down that brain. That is truly the strategy key to the whole fight.

soullkarr
10-16-2009, 12:02 AM
well our teams have a problem in phase 2 wen the portal group go inside they always move slow very slow and we just cant figure it wy

eny ideas ?

great vidio

ctwo
10-27-2009, 08:45 AM
So as a healer I don't really need to follow any melees into yogg's brain in p2 do i?

And in p1 i just need to mind my positioning to not stand on top of a cloud?

also in p2 i just need to watch for the green eye beam.

in p3 i can just face away from yogg and just heal that way right?

tonight is going to be first time i'll be doing the last boss xD

Kazeyonoma
10-27-2009, 09:36 AM
p1 as a healer, just make sure you avoid clouds and keep everyone alive, shadow bolts will go off occasionally and the raid will take damage, likewise the tank will take a lot of damage because he has to eat the explosion of the immortal's death.

p2 someone who can offheal along with dps is probably best to take the portal, so generally no you won't go into the brain, one thing though is during phase 2, you need to avoid green beams, watch if you get brain linked, and watch out for Malady (chaining fear that causes sanity loss) and stay away from those who are Malady'd. Also keep tanks up as they'll take big hits from the crusher tentacles, and whenever the brain phase ends for those who were sent in, be ready to top them off quickly and dispel any debuffs they have on them, as the brain portals will likely open within 10 seconds of them getting back out so there isn't much time to top everyone off again.

and yes phase 3, as long as you face away from the boss, you should be free to just spam heals on everyone andmake sure no one dies, do be careful about where you stand because you want the tanks to be able to run interference on any immortals that run your way. So don't stand off to the side where a tank will have trouble picking up the adds, set up a positioning strategy for phase 3 to best utilize the brain and adds and such.


like:


Ranged DPS

Tanks/Healers/Melee
Yogg Saron

solrmodule
08-30-2010, 03:45 AM
Thank you for your guide......

Zeta333
09-02-2010, 03:27 AM
There is no need to tank the adds on the boss anymore on 10 or 25. He is zergable by tanking the adds away from the boss and fully ignoreing them. Have been farming it for weeks like this on 10 and 25.

mistersix
09-02-2010, 07:29 AM
With zero keepers up or no?

Blacksen
09-02-2010, 02:15 PM
With zero keepers and an appropriately geared raid, the fight is zergable in phase three. You should aim to bring 2 tanks and have them stack in the back. Start chaining cooldowns early and spam heal the tanks as best you can.

Mind Controlled players are usually your biggest bane, especially for players who have never done Yogg-Saron at all before.