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Tums
04-22-2009, 08:10 PM
So i switched to my warrior to tank for Uld. I dont have sets created yet and am taking upgrades as they come.
It seems strange to me that i have 28 dodge, 23 block, and only 16 parry raid buffed. Figured i would ask the experts, do i need to get more parry?

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Korgath&n=Tums)

Wrath
04-23-2009, 02:13 AM
nah you obviously dont "need" more, since you seem to progress allright in Ulduar by the looks of your gear... you seem a bit heavy on the dodge-side. But well avoidance is avoidance, i prefer to balance them a bit more but i guess this is only possible if you got enough gear to do so.

There are several items with good amounts of parry on them pre-ulduar, like:

Nexus War Champion Beads - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=44665)

Legplates of Sovereignty - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40589) (ok you wear pants with parry allready)

Ablative Chitin Girdle - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=39759)

Rune of Repulsion - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40372)

i think in your case it will even out over the time...if your doing fine so far in Ulduar, everything is fine *g*

Bung
04-23-2009, 04:16 AM
Same thing happens with expertise....some gear has it. Others don't. At least you can enchant/gem for expertise and it makes sense. I took a long look at ur character. I would think that you might need to adjust your spec to include two points in cruelty (more threat) and you also need to reach the soft cap for expertise (20+6 from talents). The parry thing is really perplexing to me...you might need to switch out some of your gear to lower level gear that has some parry. Basing your gear on "buffed" stats is not a great idea because the party members might change week to week. Unbuffed you should want close to 20% dodge and %20 parry. Block is more of a trash stat since it only lessens damage and doesn't avoid it. I haven't even attempted ulduar but I would say you need more avoidance and more threat if possible. This may lower your HP slightly but the overall effect will be positive.

Bung

Wrath
04-23-2009, 05:01 AM
I haven't even attempted ulduar but I would say you need more avoidance and more threat if possible. This may lower your HP slightly but the overall effect will be positive.

Ahm not really agreeing with you there...

I would say his avoidance is absolutely ok, only the balancing between parry & dodge is a bit off, but that wont hurt really...

Threat wise i would guess Tums knows what he is doing and why...so i dont really think he wants general advice how to specc & play his char - his concern was the parry thing and i would say its not a issue... FL drops Titanguard - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=45110) so good luck getting it for some more tps & avoidance

i wouldnt change anything gearwise for now, except maybe replace the BV for a avoidance-piece on bossfights :)

btw. Amory seems to be bugged since yesterday - the avoidance values are untalented atm

Balgrid
04-23-2009, 10:03 AM
The fact is that the higher the dodge and parry rating you have the greater the diminishing returns. Therefore, it is always good to keep your avoidances as balances as possible. Doing this will give you a greater overall return. Do not downgrade your gear however, stick to moving your gems around where you can.

Jayson
04-23-2009, 10:06 AM
The fact is that the higher the dodge and parry rating you have the greater the diminishing returns. Therefore, it is always good to keep your avoidances as balances as possible. Doing this will give you a greater overall return. Do not downgrade your gear however, stick to moving your gems around where you can.

No. Parry sucks. Period. There is no such thing as "Balance" between Dodge and Parry.

If you have very little Parry and lots of Dodge, gratz on getting more avoidance out of less rating.

Check the avoidance thread by Satrina if you want to see just how bad Parry is.

Kazeyonoma
04-23-2009, 10:11 AM
wrong forum.

Bung
04-23-2009, 12:02 PM
Source Wrath
Threat wise i would guess Tums knows what he is doing and why...so i dont really think he wants general advice how to specc & play his char - his concern was the parry thing and i would say its not a issue.
Wrath...good advice considering that you are expertise capped and he is not. It's a real basic stat. If you are below the cap bosses will dodge your attacks...So mabey he didnt ask for that advice, but I do believe it will help. Parry absolutely does not suck....it's an avoidance...I don't gem for it but I pay attention to it just as I do my hit/expertise.

Jayson
04-23-2009, 02:09 PM
Unless you find every single piece of gear that has 0 Defense, tons of Dodge, and 0 Parry on it, Parry is a bad Rating to try and stack.

This graph (http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f63/40003-diminishing-returns-avoidance-2.html#post133637) shows just how much Rating you need of Dodge and Parry to get 1% of avoidance at different avoidance levels.

So just eyeballing the graph, if you have ~15% Dodge and 0% Parry, Parry rating is 1:1 as good as Dodge.

So Tums in his Armory gear is at ~22% Dodge and ~12% Parry (First of all... I have no idea how you did that. My Parry much closer to my Dodge and I never attempt to stack it...), that means that it takes ~70 pts if Parry Rating to get 1% avoidance and ~60 pts of Dodge to get 1% point of avoidance.

So even in incredibly skewed gear (Dodge/Parry avoidance wise) Dodge is still about 15% better than Parry rating.

Parry rating still sucks.

Wrath
04-24-2009, 02:07 AM
Parry rating still sucks.

No it doesnt suck - its just weaker then dodge... but ya i agree that "stacking" it by purpose isnt "the way to go"... but if you look carefully @ many pre-ulduar BiS items you notice that there is plenty of parry to get...



(First of all... I have no idea how you did that. My Parry much closer to my Dodge and I never attempt to stack it...

His armory was still untalented from 3.1.1. as mentioned before -.-

Jayson
04-24-2009, 08:55 AM
You never want to look for Parry, hence Parry sucks. He asked "Is my parry too low". No... look at your total avoidance number, if that is too low, then you stack more Avoidance. The efficient way to stack avoidance is Dodge Rating.


if you look carefully @ many pre-ulduar BiS items you notice that there is plenty of parry to get...

Just because there is alot of Parry on items does not make Parry good, that just doesn't make sense. Are you saying Blizzard wouldn't make bad items? I think the Spirit on Vanilla plate proves that wrong. Parry rating is still bad, it's always bad. If you have 50% more Parry rating on a given piece than Dodge rating on another piece... then you might consider switching pieces. But Parry rating is a poorly designed and itemized stat.


His armory was still untalented from 3.1.1. as mentioned before -.-

So? When I viewed his Armory, he was talented for Prot and Arms. His Prot talents were active (with deflection and anticiation). Even if they weren't... if he had 7% Parry (or whatever) and 20% Dodge... if you add 5% to each of those... the gap is STILL 13% suprisingly enough... "-.-" It doesn't matter if you add the talents. The gap was still a larger one than I would have expected.

The sumation is this... you never... ever... need to stack more Parry in the gear that Blizzard has provided us. You can never have too little parry or too much parry, but if you need more avoidance... don't look for Parry.


You, Wrath, told him that "Balancing" his avoidance was preferred, and then listed 4 pieces of Parry gear that apparently you thought he should wear for the extra Parry. He should do neither of the things you suggested.

Some of those pieces are better overall than pieces with Dodge, but that is only because they are higher iLvl than equivalent Dodge pieces and definitely not because the Parry is making them good. He should never attempt to add to his Parry to bring it even (or close to even) with his Dodge.

If you have high avoidance, and your Dodge is much higher than your Parry, then congratulations, you have gotten more avoidance out of less rating by skipping Parry. Most people are closer to "balanced" but that is just due to the gear at hand, but that is because itemization is bad in 3.0.

P.S. Rune of Repulsion (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40372) is the worst epic tanking trinket in Wrath hands down. Worse than the Defender's Code (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40257) which is at least useful to some people in some sets.