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Ciderhelm
04-20-2009, 04:52 AM
Hp50gUCAqwc

http://www.tankspot.com/forums/images/snowfall/donorbanner.jpg (http://www.tankspot.com/premium.php)

UI/ADDON INFORMATION:
Lore's UI (10 Man Videos): http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f211/45772-lore-s-ui.html
Ciderhelm's UI (25 Man Videos): http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f211/41095-ciderhelm-ui-information.html
Please post any questions about UI/Addon's in their respective threads and not in this thread

Grulgor
04-20-2009, 04:55 AM
Eagerly awaiting this one, other videos I've seen aren't to clear on how the OT handles the golems and I've seen different graphics for the scorch all over the place.

Gogo Cider :)

Ciderhelm
04-20-2009, 05:37 AM
Movie up! Donor download on all three movies today should be available in about a half hour.

Rak
04-20-2009, 05:50 AM
An error occurred, please try again later. You lied to me Cider.

Ciderhelm
04-20-2009, 05:52 AM
Woops! Low definition embed code is in now, sorry.

Pesko
04-20-2009, 05:54 AM
Good job Cider, as allways :)

swelt
04-20-2009, 06:48 AM
Excellent guide, we struggled with this last night using a different (and much worse) positioning approach. I wonder what options there are that don't require 2 druids in the raid?

Ciderhelm
04-20-2009, 06:49 AM
Excellent guide, we struggled with this last night using a different (and much worse) positioning approach. I wonder what options there are that don't require 2 druids in the raid?
Well, you can do what the movie suggests with a single Druid rooting and another tank bringing them to position. We specifically used this as our 10-man strat as well so with no Druid I don't have an answer other than to suck it up and eat the fire damage in 10-man (hopefully someone else has a better idea and can post it).

Aratillion
04-20-2009, 06:54 AM
Hey Cider by any chance you or someone could upload a transcript of you dialog, so I can translate it to spanish for my fellow guild members? I'd like to help do so for the rest of the community, as time is avaliable for me to do it. Nice vid. :D

Gertiploiss
04-20-2009, 07:17 AM
Well, you can do what the movie suggests with a single Druid rooting and another tank bringing them to position. We specifically used this as our 10-man strat as well so with no Druid I don't have an answer other than to suck it up and eat the fire damage in 10-man (hopefully someone else has a better idea and can post it).
One of the other known strats is to kite them using Chains of Ice from a DK. While this does make it a little less reliable and the tank on the constructs might still need to take some fire damage, it greatly reduces the time in which the tank does have to stand in the flame. I have not tested this out, but another alternative stratagey would be to use Hungering Cold which may work as well.

10 man encounter is extremly overtuned though. We wiped 21 times until we realized that the top guild on our server had disposed of Yogg-saron, but not of Ignis.

Gnurken
04-20-2009, 07:29 AM
What I did tanking this in 25man was placing the scorches in a circle around the raid, much closer and overlapping than in this movie, this helped the DKs handling the adds that there were no gaps so stacks of the debuff didn't fall off the adds. Also the melee never had to move, just turn as the boss shift around them. The only people moving was the tanks.

Xenix
04-20-2009, 07:37 AM
Well, you can do what the movie suggests with a single Druid rooting and another tank bringing them to position. We specifically used this as our 10-man strat as well so with no Druid I don't have an answer other than to suck it up and eat the fire damage in 10-man (hopefully someone else has a better idea and can post it).

One thing that a lot of people don't realize is that if the add tank positions himself correctly, he can tank the adds such that they get scorch and he doesn't, saving the need to root them in place. To do this, you have to be just inside the scorch animation so that it looks like you should be getting hit, but you won't.

Also, on 10-man, if you have a geared enough tank and good dps and healers, it's entirely possible to tank Ignis in the water so there are no scorch debuffs (the scorch will go away instantly if it touches the water) to worry about and just off-tank the adds the whole time (we did that this week). He'll be hitting extremely hard at the end, but it's doable if your raid can handle the damage.

swelt
04-20-2009, 07:47 AM
For 10 man we ended up kiting the golems and not bothering to kill them... effectively brute forcing the encounter. This was obviously dependant on having best 25 man naxx gear and I don't recommend it. In 25 man, we found the tank became unhealable a lot earlier (although I think our healing strategy could have been better too) but the process we had for dealing with golems was too slow.

Giles Deathstalker
04-20-2009, 08:14 AM
Cider how did you deal with the fact that the Brittle golems when they are killed do 20k damage to anyone within 10 yards? was the person kiting them into the water a tank and you were eating the damage or did you delay killing htem till that person got far enough away or what?

2ndly for ya'll how often were the golems spawning when we tried him on Saturday night it seemed we were getting golems to spawn every 10 to 15 secs and were getting overrun with them.

Gertiploiss
04-20-2009, 08:25 AM
As mentioned in the video, they used a mage in order to destroy the Brittle Golems. Supposedly the tank that got them into the water was nowhere nearby when this occured.

Raiss
04-20-2009, 08:30 AM
I used a diferent way yesterday, on 10-man. After a wipe, I realized that, if he uses the flame and you are very near the water (or inside), it would just extinguish. So tried this way:

I moved him near the left water, let him flame close the water, but not enough to extinguish. After that, I would move to the water, until the next he cast the second scorch. This made the ground cleaner, less people getting hit be the flame after leaving slagpot. The add tank (yes, we used a tank since we didn't have a druid) could rely on a specificy spot to burn, healers didn't have to worry about LOS when he run to diferents spots.
You may have a downtime of scorch, but nothing more than 2 seconds if you do it right.

Man▀earpig
04-20-2009, 08:33 AM
Im not sure how sholo dealt with the aoe damage but I never got hit. When the golem went molten i feral charged and immediately hit with a maul/mangle to break my Natures Grasp. What this also does is put a 50% slowing debuff allowing me to get out of range and into the deep water before he gets to me.

Dubzil
04-20-2009, 08:40 AM
What I did tanking this in 25man was placing the scorches in a circle around the raid, much closer and overlapping than in this movie, this helped the DKs handling the adds that there were no gaps so stacks of the debuff didn't fall off the adds. Also the melee never had to move, just turn as the boss shift around them. The only people moving was the tanks.


We did this too, instead of 2 scorches per side of the raid I got in 3 and it was a solid line of scorches so there was no problems getting the adds molten.

Also, we had prot war & boomkin doing adds, boomkin would use moonfire while standing in the water after add was molten to break the roots, and the moonkin just did a starfall to shatter the add. There is nobody in 10 yard radius of the pools as they are all in the middle of the area.

Gallener
04-20-2009, 09:08 AM
First off, you have 20 seconds to kill the brittle golem, so the offtank who brought it into the water should have plenty of time to get out before a mage hits it. in fact, our offtanks just called out when it was ok to kill it. Our positioning was essentially the same as your Ciderhelm, though i tried putting the scorches a little closer to the water. The four point path works wonders.

It's is indeed possible to tank the golem in the fire while yourself being out of it, but if Ignis cast Flame Jets while you are doing this, the golem will shift and move out of the flame because of you being launched into the air. And every second counts.

Once we decided to witch to 2 DK offtanks, it was an laughable fight on 25 man. The combination of Chains of Ice and Death Grip meant that the DK's took virtually no damage. We're so busy pushing 25 man that we have not yet got around to trying Ignis on 10 man.

The Leviathan
04-20-2009, 10:12 AM
Our guild may have discovered a possible intentional area design that makes the encounter much easier. We positioned our ranged and healers on the raised ledge that exists in all but the very middle on each side of the room around the water. This places the majority of the raid directly behind the innactive constructs but about 1 yard off the floor and roughly 1/2 way down from the large pools. We did this for 2 reasons. This ledge has a sharp edge on the side facing the center of the room and a gradual slope on the side facing the pool behind the raid. We noticed that when constructs become molten, then seem to reset aggro (haven't tested it, possible it's just healer aggro on targets not being actively tanked). Constructs cannot path directly to a ranged dps or healer who is standing on the raised ledge. This works to our advantage.

That leads to the 2nd reason. This forces the constructs to run up the only way they can reach the ledge, through the water as they attempt to come up the gradual slope on the back side of the ledge. The end result is the constructs becoming molten, aggroing onto healers since we root them in scorch, and making themselves brittle. Additionally, if they are 1/2 way across the ledge they will be out of range from the AOE caused both by them being molten and then when they are shattered. This strat allows healers and ranged to be fully in LOS of all melee and tanks at all times. It should be noted that Ignis doesn't fall prey to the need to path around the ledge due to his height so it allows him to grab players without having to cause a massive positioning issue.

In the end we tank him with his back to the ledge (any of the 4 ledges will do). We have melee stand just in front of the ledge. Tank him with his back facing melee and ranged, and then line up scorches from left to right and then back again as they fade. We only have to assign 1 person to kite them into the scorches, 2 people to snare them inside, and no one has to worry about them once they become molten since healer aggro takes care of their pathing straight into the water. A single ranged dps doesn't even have to move as they are in LOS from the point where they become brittle as they shatter them.

I hope this helps and hopefully you won't have to re-shoot your video when you see how trivial this makes the encounter. Great job as always.

jaydee
04-20-2009, 10:21 AM
Cider and the TS team, with Ulduar, the OT role is so important now as well and is no longer just as simple as how Naxx OTing used to be. It would be great if you could also provide addendum movies that cover the OT role for the encounters, ie with this one, Ignis. Thanks!

Darksend
04-20-2009, 10:21 AM
Well, you can do what the movie suggests with a single Druid rooting and another tank bringing them to position. We specifically used this as our 10-man strat as well so with no Druid I don't have an answer other than to suck it up and eat the fire damage in 10-man (hopefully someone else has a better idea and can post it).


the fire in 10 man does significantly less damage, Conc blow it in the fire and run away for 5 seconds then charge back in and tank it in the fire.

Downed it on my alt in 10 man last night using this strat and only came close to dieing once when flame jets when out right as he transformed at 20

Beatzz
04-20-2009, 10:31 AM
Basically as an OT in this fight your main goal is to keep good communication with a druid for roots. Roots make this fight extremley easier on your healers and your self. Pick up the add, drag it in the flame and get a root, when it changes taunt and take it to the water. SB then SS and it should shatter, if not assign a mage.

Sproutster
04-20-2009, 10:39 AM
Had some fun with this guy on the weekend, wiped 20 times total. (didn't have the benefit of this video) We had been trying something similar and had been able to get him quite low but never killed him. In the end we decided to stop moving him around, position him in the middle, and simply rotate him every time he did the scorch. He scorched in 3 directions and we stood in the open spot. This gave the raid great visibility in the fight and we allways pulled the molten guy to a nearby pool. We easily got it on the second try with that strat.

Beatzz
04-20-2009, 12:02 PM
With out strat we chose to shatter three and then burn boss. To maximize dps time we tanking Ignis facing the water to the side. This makes the scorch disapate as soon as its been cast. Allowing minimal movement and a quick burn

The Leviathan
04-20-2009, 12:14 PM
Give this strat a try and tell me the fight isn't a joke after that.
http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f206/48907-ulduar-ignis-furnace-master.html#post212211
I know the explanation is a bit wordy, but I was trying to be clear on the positioning.

RevenueGuy
04-20-2009, 01:08 PM
We had a workable strat and got him to 6% last night so frustratingly close. We had frost specced mage and with the water elemental he had pretty much unlimited frost novas to help lock the Constructs in place so that I as OT could get out of the scorchs.

Basically we had a four point scorch location around the two pools of water and I as OT would pick up the constructs run to a scorch mage would frost nova. I would run out and just as the frost nova broke I would charge or intercept depending on which was available and CB or SW depending on which was available and then the mage would frost nova again. At this point the construct was Molten and I would run to the pool and taunt always making sure to be in range of a charge or intercept incase the healer was too close and the aggro was greater than the taunt.

I am very confident that now we are rested and confident in our strategy we will down ignis tonight. Hope this helps to show that you dont have to use a druid to entangle.

Inaoe
04-20-2009, 03:05 PM
Killed him today with me on add duty. The most dangerous thing about the golems is, that they do heavy AoE fire damage in a 7 yard radius once they are molten. What worked best for me was to tank them in a fire up to 15/20 stacks of the debuff, concussion blow and run towards a pool. The golem becomes molten by the time the stun runs out, and I just taunted + heroic throw if available to make him run into the pool. I was also wearing some fire resist, brought me to 225 FR with a pally aura. This way I never had more than one golem active and could avoid the molten AoE.

Dagronjr
04-20-2009, 10:46 PM
Not trying to fix the wheel, but voiding 1/2 the scorches with the water helps. We use the front corners next to the water. (Front being that they are near Ignus.) We have him scorch here, cross sides, scorch the water, scorch the corner, cross back, repeat. We had ~95% Scorch Uptime and used two Boomkin + Tank + Healer packs to patrol every other add.

In 10 man, if you don't have druids... Run the add in, stun/chains of ice it, and run out.. but barely out. Just enough to not take the stacks. As the mob runs at you he will stop to attack you and he's but you're not. Takes more healing, as the melee damage is now added, but you don't have to run in and out of fire like other methods suggest.

Sempx
04-21-2009, 07:22 AM
I got 2 questions regarding this fight =)

1. Is it okay for the golem tanking tank to stand inside scorch or will he take to much damage?

2. When the golem becomes Molten you said he will lose all agro. Is he going to be tanked the same way afterwards. Can i taunt and tps it ? Like, is it still going to be tankable?

Dagronjr
04-21-2009, 07:28 AM
1. Depends on healing. In today's patch, the damage is nerfed. Keep in mind though, you're taking fire ticks + adds damage and over time he swings faster. I recommend trying to hold him in the edge if no CC is available (roots).

2. It's just an aggro wipe. He's tankable in all general senses, but the second he goes molten it's an aggro wipe.

Malefik
04-21-2009, 08:01 AM
Leviathan...that sounds like an interesting strat. One I hope that Blizz don't 'hotfix' but a valid one all the same. Just to get things straight:
1. Ranged and healers don't move at all for the whole fight and stay on the ledge?
2. How far back from the ledge is the MT tanking him? And I am guessing your OT just hags with the melee and roots the golems as they join?
3. Do the golems head straight for the middle of the pool to get around? ie. through the centre sections?

Might give this a try. Sounds crazy easy, and the fact it's a sloped ledge.....hmmm.

Sempx
04-21-2009, 08:08 AM
1. Depends on healing. In today's patch, the damage is nerfed. Keep in mind though, you're taking fire ticks + adds damage and over time he swings faster. I recommend trying to hold him in the edge if no CC is available (roots).

2. It's just an aggro wipe. He's tankable in all general senses, but the second he goes molten it's an aggro wipe.


Thanks alot mate ! Peace

The Leviathan
04-21-2009, 08:16 AM
1. Correct, ranged and healers never have to move with this setup.

2. You only need to leave room for melee to get behind the boss. I'd guess I was able to tank him with about 2-3 yards between him and the ledge. Just in front of the dormant golem line. I only tanked him there to give myself the option of going in front or behind the scorches without getting out of range from heals as I continued laying them in a straight, unbroken line from left to right.

3. All the OT has to do is get them to run through the scorch. They can be stunned and rooted so the OT doesn't have to stand in the scorch at all. Just as long as they are lead through to be rooted in it. Once they become molten, the ledge forces them to path through the larger, shallow portion of the pool as they attempt to get to the ranged/healers. It completely eliminated the OT or melee taking AOE dmg if they sidestep the molten golems as they come in from the far right. Otherwise they don't have to worry about it at all.

The point is it IS crazy easy. And I don't see it as an exploit or something they will hotfix. It's not like anyone walljumped to get there. It's just taking advantage of the way the golems are forced to path and I believe it's intended.

End result, it's doable by any guild with decent healers, and minimal group composition requirements. Just understand the setup and it's cake.

The Leviathan
04-21-2009, 08:17 AM
I got 2 questions regarding this fight =)

1. Is it okay for the golem tanking tank to stand inside scorch or will he take to much damage?

2. When the golem becomes Molten you said he will lose all agro. Is he going to be tanked the same way afterwards. Can i taunt and tps it ? Like, is it still going to be tankable?

Read the strat I posted and you'll see that this works to your advantage.

Malefik
04-21-2009, 08:52 AM
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f34/mwill79/Ignis.jpg

Like that mate? I did a dodgy MS Paint diagram....hopefully that's what it looks like? I am guessing the MT can be a lot closer to the ranged and healers but I think that's the drift.

Thanks Lev, sounds like an awesome strat. The fact that ramp is sloped at the back...it has to be intentional. It's only the 2nd boss or so, so it can't be that complicated to have OT's running in and out of water getting nuked by fire etc.

The Leviathan
04-21-2009, 09:18 AM
I gotta say, I should have drawn that to begin with. You have it down exactly as I discussed. Thanks man. Yeah, the scale on how far out the MT and boss will be is off* but it makes seeing the concept easier.

My only other notes are that you can use any of the 4 ledges in the room and the tank won't have to move as far left as you indicated with the arrows. If you don't have a hunter for misdirect, the closer ledges might be more ideal but will take the tank a little longer to position.


*the tank and boss will actually be much closer to the ranged and melee.

Senti
04-22-2009, 04:51 AM
Flame jets is a monster of an attack (8 seconds of not being able to cast in that school of magic if you mess up plus the whole 'can't cast while moving' malarky)... yet I've managed to not get hit at all by it sometimes. Is there a mechanic to allow this to happen all the time or was it perhaps just a resist or something of that nature?

Sproutster
04-22-2009, 07:25 AM
I would love to see a video of the diagramed strat. Does anyone know if one exists and where to find it?

Skum
04-22-2009, 07:36 AM
Thank you for this excellent guide. We did Ignis on our 3rd attempt with minimal fuss thanks to this.

Very simple tactic, yet also very sleek.

Dagronjr
04-22-2009, 08:15 AM
Flame jets is a monster of an attack (8 seconds of not being able to cast in that school of magic if you mess up plus the whole 'can't cast while moving' malarky)... yet I've managed to not get hit at all by it sometimes. Is there a mechanic to allow this to happen all the time or was it perhaps just a resist or something of that nature?

If you full resist it, or are protected by things such as Power Word: Shield, you wouldn't get the knock up/interrupt effect. I think only if it does damage to you, do you get tossed into the air.

The Leviathan
04-22-2009, 10:02 AM
I would love to see a video of the diagramed strat. Does anyone know if one exists and where to find it?

We've only done it once since this week we wanted to push further into Ulduar as fast as we could. I'd assume if Ciderhelm had known this strat he might have found it easier to manage. But, as I said before, I hadn't seen anyone else using this strat and I think it's a terrible shame since it's amazingly easy.

Jinkai
04-22-2009, 10:52 AM
Isn't the 20k from blowing up only done to the boss? It deals 20k, plus removes 1 stack of the buff from him... Or did I read that wrong...

Dagronjr
04-22-2009, 12:22 PM
The 20k is an AOE based off the mob. It hits any players within 10 yards for the damage (which ignores armor.) So the 5k hit needs to land after everyone is outside of 10 yards of it.

hvidgaard
04-23-2009, 04:22 AM
I'm fairly certain that strategy would be considered an exploitation of pathing :/ in any case it isn't really needed, the encounter isn't hard when your construct squad gets the hang of it. To make it even easier you can keep scorch up on both sides of a pool (and negate one into the water) - it really is surprisingly easy.

The Leviathan
04-24-2009, 01:46 AM
While I don't believe that's it's an exploit considering how the room is designed, we easily downed him again this way and I do have to point out an error in my previous posts. This won't work at any of the 4 spots I mentioned previously... The 2 closest to Ignis have invisible walls that prevent you from swimming around. But on the other hand I found it's easy to ride up to the boss, aggro him, and ride back to the raid. No misdirection needed.

Raxdo
04-24-2009, 06:00 AM
Great video helped my guild a lot, both on how to tank him and the tactics :)

Togrin
04-24-2009, 07:01 AM
The boss is easy even with the normal strategy not using the diagramed positioning. The problem is that it will probably will be fixed since it trivializes the encounter and your raid has to learn to do it all over again, which certainly isn't a motivation booster. Just do it as in the video (well I do 3 instead of 2 scorches on one side, but that doesn't really change things) and you'll never have to deal with learning the encounter once again.

Our guild did the Archimonde firstkill with the "standing on the edge of the map on the hills" strategy and ooh boy did it suck to learn the boss once again after it was fixed.

Deroloque
04-24-2009, 12:40 PM
If you full resist it, or are protected by things such as Power Word: Shield, you wouldn't get the knock up/interrupt effect. I think only if it does damage to you, do you get tossed into the air.

Im curious what abilities besides Power Word: Shield will protect a player from the knock up/interrupt. Does Grounding Totem work?

The Leviathan
04-24-2009, 08:03 PM
The boss is easy even with the normal strategy not using the diagramed positioning. The problem is that it will probably will be fixed since it trivializes the encounter and your raid has to learn to do it all over again, which certainly isn't a motivation booster. Just do it as in the video (well I do 3 instead of 2 scorches on one side, but that doesn't really change things) and you'll never have to deal with learning the encounter once again.

Our guild did the Archimonde firstkill with the "standing on the edge of the map on the hills" strategy and ooh boy did it suck to learn the boss once again after it was fixed.

Not exactly one for variety or creativity are you? We aren't exploiting, we didn't wall jump, and I don't see why they'd bother to make the layout like this if they didn't intend for it to be used in some fashion.

You don't have to look at the way 1 guild decided to do it and say "That's how it needs to be done by everyone!". Sorry if we put a little more thought into our method.

The simple facts are we aren't doing anything that hasn't been done before in other encounters and has become the accepted method of doing them. We just looked at what we were given and used that the most logical way. If Blizzard decides to fix it so this no longer works then so be it. If they don't and we continue to 1 shot this boss each week can we say that's Blizzard congratulating us for figuring out a better way?

hvidgaard
04-25-2009, 01:30 PM
The Leviathan - the simple fact that you can't use all 4 ledges is a pretty stong hint that it probably wasn't intented (and no, they don't make layout sole for the practical aspects. I bet the looks got much more to do with it ;)). Traditionally, exploiting the pathing is if you posistion yourself so mobs need to run in a way negating encounter mechanics - I call this strategy an exploit in that sense - after all I believe that this encounter was designed with ranged taunts in mind ;)

It might be fixed, it might not, it all depends on how much of a challenge Blizzard intented this boss to be.

Gertiploiss
04-25-2009, 05:12 PM
The boss seems really overtuned for 10 man. Our guild can do Razorscale, XT-002, and 2 guys down in Iron Council but this guy is too hard apparently. We've tried burning, rooting, tanking in the flames but it won't work because he will kill people with his adds or his pot. Anyone else seeing extreme difficulties in the 10 man version?

The Leviathan
04-25-2009, 05:48 PM
Traditionally, exploiting the pathing is if you posistion yourself so mobs need to run in a way negating encounter mechanics - I call this strategy an exploit in that sense .

Did you play Naxx, AQ 40, or even BWL for that matter?

hvidgaard
04-26-2009, 03:42 AM
Did you play Naxx, AQ 40, or even BWL for that matter?Not in vanilla wow no, that doesn't make my point invalid tho, you can't just quote what fits you and ignore the rest. Besides, if Blizzard did an enviroment with this in mind (think Anub'Rekhan) it's near darn impossible without doing it (without outgearing it), and that certainly isn't the case here.

Gertiploiss - no, but it really depends if you have a construct squad that gets the hang of it. I would say that a Frost DK/Balance Druid probably is the best to take care of it. When you say people die in the pot, are you only running with 2 healers? 3 healers makes it a hell of a lot easier.

Keeny
04-26-2009, 06:01 AM
Hea ciderhelm i was wondering what the name of the hunter was. since i saw that he was pushing out 5k dps or so and i am having trouble with my dps. i want to see what spec he has and what not. TY

Heirbiscuit
04-26-2009, 11:39 AM
Does anyone know if you can stack the scorches? Would that increase the rate of making the constructs molten?

I just thought of this because we had a fail fest last night, with an OT that couldn't seem to get the mobs to become molten. We also had noone rooting/slowing, so that will help a lot.

I still wondered about stacking scorches though.

Remora
04-26-2009, 09:40 PM
Just wanted to post another thanks for a great video and explanation of this fight. We got him down tonight for the first time and went on to kill the IC as well, both first kills for us on our second night of raiding for the week. Keep up the good work!! :):)

Shandrakor
04-27-2009, 04:52 AM
Does anyone know if you can stack the scorches? Would that increase the rate of making the constructs molten?


Stacking them is possible and it does make them molten much faster. I did this as the MT and found it to be fairly easy to keep all the scorches stacked in one pile. Stacked scorch makes it easier for the OT and druid, since they dont have to worry about a scorch disipating under a golem and losing all of the buff stacks. The added burn damage isnt much of an issue (10 man) unless the tanks happen to get vented in the 1-2 seconds they are standing in the scorch, even when this happened healing thru is possible.

The Leviathan
04-27-2009, 07:07 AM
Not in vanilla wow no, that doesn't make my point invalid tho, you can't just quote what fits you and ignore the rest. Besides, if Blizzard did an enviroment with this in mind (think Anub'Rekhan) it's near darn impossible without doing it (without outgearing it), and that certainly isn't the case here.

Actually, if you're basing the argument that this is an exploit because you think taking advantage or pathing isn't intended then it does make your point invalid. If you had to do a great number of encounters like the ones I listed (hell, I'll even include Morgrim from SSC before they nerfbatted the hell out of that place) back then it was still progression raiding and couldn't grossly outgeared, then you'd be laughing at someone who said that too. It's possible that Blizzard didn't intend for this method. But it certainly wouldn't be the first time a similar method was widely considered the way it was done by the majority of the raiding community.

The simple fact is that this kill is very efficient, doesn't have a restrictive requirement for raid composition other than some form of snares, requires minimal movement of ranged and healers, and greatly reduces raid dmg compared to the other ones being used at the moment stands on it's own.

nosebone
04-28-2009, 06:15 AM
Actually, if you're basing the argument that this is an exploit because you think taking advantage or pathing isn't intended then it does make your point invalid. If you had to do a great number of encounters like the ones I listed (hell, I'll even include Morgrim from SSC before they nerfbatted the hell out of that place) back then it was still progression raiding and couldn't grossly outgeared, then you'd be laughing at someone who said that too. It's possible that Blizzard didn't intend for this method. But it certainly wouldn't be the first time a similar method was widely considered the way it was done by the majority of the raiding community.

The simple fact is that this kill is very efficient, doesn't have a restrictive requirement for raid composition other than some form of snares, requires minimal movement of ranged and healers, and greatly reduces raid dmg compared to the other ones being used at the moment stands on it's own.

and ingenious. i say well done for taking the time to figure out how your surroundings can work in your favor. we have ignus down the regular way but if there's a smarter way then i'm all for it. there are enough hard
(gimicky) fights in 10ulduar to make up for this one being smoother now. thanks for the new strat, looking forward to trying it.

Kraytore
04-28-2009, 10:59 AM
Went into 10 man last night for the first time, I personally took it upon myself to read up on this fight and watch the videos. We got the hang of the golems, but it seems that the flame jets are just smoking us. Anyone have any ideas on how to avoid this or is there some sort of trick to avoid getting hit by them at all?

Sapemuboja
04-28-2009, 06:01 PM
http://i41.tinypic.com/dvk7l5.jpg
Our Developed Ignis Strat:

In order to simplify the encounter we took advantage of Scorch's Primary Mechanics. Mainly how it is immediately banished when cast into a pool.

To begin the fight the tank aggro's Ignis and pulls him to the tanks initial position (T1). Ignis should be standing on the X and facing the entrance of the boss room.

By this time (or within a few seconds) Ignis will begin to cast in the area shown the first Scorch.

Once cast the tank will move to (T2) and tank him there while the OT manages the adds.

The MT will allow Ignis to burn one scorch in the pool as shown. Due to the Duration of scorch, the origional scorch will still be active till just before Ignis casts his 3rd scorch. 6 or so seconds prior to him casting his third scorch the MT should turn ignis back to the (T1) position facing the door allowing him to refresh the initial scorch.

After that it is a rinse and repeat alternating every other scorch and refreshing it when it depletes

Benefits:

1. Due to the minimal amount of movement of Ignis Mele DPS will not have to reposition themselves. Hence, increasing the amount of DPS that they can generate within the encounter.

2. Ranged and Healers should never have to move at all. (Unless thrown into his belly.)

3. When an individual has spent their time within the belly of ignis they will be placed in the water pool upon leaving the pot. This is beneficial because (in the off chance) that ignis is casting scorch, it will be negated by the water. Hence, saving the victim from taking any unecessary additional damage.

4. Ignis's left side is left clear at all times. When a victim is released from the pot they can safely avoid ignis in that direction. (this may be a mute point)

5. The shortened path between Scorch and the pool reduces the distance the adds need to be carried while they are molten.

Disadvantages:

1. Due to how scorch is set up the OT will have to do a lot of movement amongst the raid to pick up adds on the other side of ignis.

2. Just as a precautionary thing the OT needs to ensure that when he transforms a molten construct into a brittle one he is at least 5 yards away from the MT to negate any damage caused from the construct after exploding hence, hurting the MT. (this however is very simple to avoid)

Additional Note:
Before the encounter with ignis we all watched several videos on youtube. We did not base this strategy on anything similar to what we watched. Although someone probably has already discovered this we had no prior knowledge of this particular strat. And if you have already figured this out and are reading this then Good on ya! Because it is Win.

Mightytre
04-29-2009, 11:36 AM
very nice tips. on 10 man we just burn him and ignore adds. as long as u can kill him under 5 min works out pretty easily.

Kerchunk
04-30-2009, 11:20 AM
I believe the 10-man version has received a stealth nerf. Last night our OT noticed that adds only need 10 stacks of Scorch to go molten. This used to be 20 which required a lot more time in the fire and made it much more challenging overall.

Rocfeather
04-30-2009, 11:46 AM
I believe the 10-man version has received a stealth nerf. Last night our OT noticed that adds only need 10 stacks of Scorch to go molten. This used to be 20 which required a lot more time in the fire and made it much more challenging overall.

I think that was mentioned in some patch notes somewhere. We will try it this week sometime. Since on our first few attempts (10 man) we didn't have a druid for roots our poor OT had to stand there in the fires. This should help a lot since it was usually him or me that died first.

Aratillion
05-04-2009, 03:56 AM
My guild killed Ignis 10 Man with Ciderhelm strat, we tried Leviathan one but it was kind of awkward to do (maybe raid setup I guess) but killed him one shot the day we tried Cider's one.

Pruke
05-04-2009, 07:33 AM
In 10 and 25 man we just use 2 tanks, one on Ignis and one grabbing adds. Prot paladins on the boss and I (warrior on adds). I keep sunder, demo, tc up on the boss and only pull off the boss to grab the add that spawns. With 44k hps I am able to tank 8 adds without much trouble. I do use shockwave every CD by stepping back and making sure all are clumped and stunning them only when I have more then 4 adds on me though.

Raid is stacked directly behind the boss so melee do not have to move when he charges a ranged. Burn heroism/blood lust after a few DPS have the slag pot buff.

Honestly after doing it by making adds molten and doing it this way it's just much easier. Of course you have to have decent DPS after about 4 min 30 seconds the Ignis tank is going to take some pretty heavy burst damage.

lennygel666
05-05-2009, 08:31 AM
One of the other known strats is to kite them using Chains of Ice from a DK. While this does make it a little less reliable and the tank on the constructs might still need to take some fire damage, it greatly reduces the time in which the tank does have to stand in the flame. I have not tested this out, but another alternative stratagey would be to use Hungering Cold which may work as well.

10 man encounter is extremly overtuned though. We wiped 21 times until we realized that the top guild on our server had disposed of Yogg-saron, but not of Ignis.

What we did was a very reliable way of destroying the adds, but lower DPS
we used a DK OT and a DK dps to chain the adds in the fire(first one chains and then the other) and then the DK DPS would pull the molten add into the water and alert the mage. that way the OT can run to the next add quickly. This method is very dangorous though, because when the DK dps dies the OT will die too probabally(which is exactly what happened lol) I pugged thsi and we got him down to 1200K and continuing tomorrow. A well geared guild with a druid can probabally 1-shot him, he's not that big of a deal lol
I really only recommand this if you don't have a druid capable of rooting(like us)

hvidgaard
05-06-2009, 05:06 AM
Actually, if you're basing the argument that this is an exploit because you think taking advantage or pathing isn't intended then it does make your point invalid. If you had to do a great number of encounters like the ones I listed (hell, I'll even include Morgrim from SSC before they nerfbatted the hell out of that place) back then it was still progression raiding and couldn't grossly outgeared, then you'd be laughing at someone who said that too. It's possible that Blizzard didn't intend for this method. But it certainly wouldn't be the first time a similar method was widely considered the way it was done by the majority of the raiding community.

The simple fact is that this kill is very efficient, doesn't have a restrictive requirement for raid composition other than some form of snares, requires minimal movement of ranged and healers, and greatly reduces raid dmg compared to the other ones being used at the moment stands on it's own.

This really isn't the place to argue like this - I find it borderline exploit because nearly all of the encounter mechanics dangers is negated and mainly because you can't use all 4 ledges. It's a brilliant solution, that I don't argue with, but the fight is easy enough without doing it (except some really obscure raid-composistions) so why not have fun instead of another tank'n'spank enounter ;)

Wildfist
05-07-2009, 03:44 AM
Not sure but i Havent seen anyone say this on any forums but if the main tank stacks the Scorches on the ground then the Golems take extra stacks of the Debuff. When it was still needed to stack to 20 we would get them to molten in 10 seconds. so now with only needing 10 stacks it a lot faster.

Pudge
05-09-2009, 02:36 PM
today i tried on a 10man i put on my epic lvl 70 fire resistance set getting with the aura 350 fire resistance as a prot pala since i was grabbing the construct and it came to my notice that i really didnt get hit that much by the scorches on average i resisted 750dmg per tick with maximums of 1200dmg inside the scorches the only downfall on this was that i had less hp and the constructs hit me for 3k instead of the 1500ish though it seemed way easier this way then in normal tank gear .. just wanted to bring it to notice :)

Drosa
05-10-2009, 11:43 PM
I have a small problem in healing, hope some one could help me out.

I'm a Disc priest, so my duty was on tank, some times raid heal little if raid healer not keeping up.

But the problem I see is:

1. When a player got potted, our raid healer couldn't pick him up fast, so we end it up like 98% potted player dies.

2. When one adds down, a new add will pop up in the middle of the raid, some of our healer die to it and I don't know why lolz

It is very easy to pick up any one in 10 man raid, because the list is very short, but when this happen in 25 man raid, picking up some one from the list when he got potted it is impossible without any addon / Ui / macro etc, could some one point me to a good direction to resolve this issue? Like a macro or UI or any thing I can use to pick up the potted player quick!?

Many thanks =)

The Leviathan
05-11-2009, 09:10 AM
1. If your raid healer isn't getting heals off fast enough, have him switch to faster heals. If it's because he isn't seeing who gets put in the pot the instant it happens have them use a healing UI that shows debuffs such as Grid and make sure they add the debuff so they see it instantly. If they can see who has it right away are using fast heals, and can't react fast enough, replace them and find someone who can get it done.

2. Adds don't pop in the middle of the raid. There is a lot going on and a lot of the room obscured by either the boss or the scorch animation, but the adds all come from 1 of the 4 spots where the dormant ones are standing. Having an add tank who's watching to see where they come from each time is a must. There is an emote when he activates a new one. They need to be paying attention.

So yes, raid healing without a solid UI is insane. As mentioned earlier I like Grid for that reason. Combined with click2cast or clique you'll be a healing machine as soon as you get accustomed to the interface and set up a full list of debuffs.

Jivatma
05-13-2009, 04:33 PM
Not sure but i Havent seen anyone say this on any forums but if the main tank stacks the Scorches on the ground then the Golems take extra stacks of the Debuff. When it was still needed to stack to 20 we would get them to molten in 10 seconds. so now with only needing 10 stacks it a lot faster.


Constructs only need 10 stacks now to become molten. was changed for 10man at least. havne't done this boss on 25man yet so i don't know how he differs. Encounter is quite easy after the changes. Trash before him is still some of the hardest though =(

Rhyseh
05-13-2009, 04:36 PM
10 stacks on 25's too if it hasn't already been posted.

zyd
05-13-2009, 05:06 PM
In my guild, we've downed Ingis with very little problems even before the nerf. After our initial kill of Ingis, we have yet to wipe on him again. We have a MT Pally on Ingis while our OT DK is on golems. We run 3 healers but the cool thing is the OT kites and kills the golems by him self. He uses chains of ice and then kites to the water, once brittle he 5k crits the golem himself. All he ask for is a few heals here and there, everyone else is on Ingis.

Emi
05-14-2009, 02:21 AM
Have any of you had an Unholy DK(with at least 1 point in desecration) on the constructs ? Last night, the stacks werent building up sequentially no matter what and believe me i experimented on all possible positions in the scorch.

The construct stacks were like : 1,2,3,2,3,4,5,4,3 ...

My guess is that Desecration is somehow going over the scorch tick preventing the stacks to build normally. This was never an issue before the nerf btw. Unfortunately this possibility only occurred to me after raid end so i didnt get a chance to try as frost.

wayne
05-14-2009, 02:56 AM
I'm really struggling with the Constructs. Any tips for a warrior tank designated onto these? (25man)

I am going to look into building up a trash tanking build which I can put Piercing Howl in which I am hoping will help on this boss.

I was struggling with visibility firstly, but was then struggling to keep the constructs inside the scorch effectively.

Any ideas?

Julietius
05-18-2009, 12:02 AM
We downed his on the 4th try the other night (10 man), i was OTing as a DK, i found the best way to deal with the adds, was to simply pick them up, kite them over to the scortched area run in it, Chains of Ice the golem, jump back over them and position my self on the edge of the scortched area with them remaining inside and me not.

Then I simply kited them to the water, turned them brittle and called out on vent for a shammy to finish them off once i'd got a safe distance from the golem!

It worked well for us, also we assigned 3 healers in the fight!! Disc priest on the MT, Resto druid watching the raid, and Holy Pally on me (the OT)

Also have back-ups in case a healer gets potted and cant reach their primary healing targets

Emi
05-18-2009, 03:39 AM
As a follow up to my previous post i can now confirm that desecration was interfering with scorch on Ignis which prevented the stacks on the constructs from incrementing normally.
Tried it last night as frost and all was normal.

Noep
05-20-2009, 05:39 AM
When we downed ignis (10man)
All we did was kite the boss much like in this video.
i was hitting the adds and taking them into the flames i wouldn’t worry to much about rooting them in the flames, the flames didn’t seem to do too much dam (dk unholy tank) without using any dam reduction / antimagic. obv when using them it made it alot less.
The only worry is as ciderhelm stated if the dps you are using to destroy the adds gets slag potted the standby dps needs to be quick to respond there’s nothing worse than having to get 2 maybe 3 adds stacked up and destroyed its doable but not fun .

people wondering about how to stop the tank or dps getting hurt by the brittle add explode as soon as the brittle add hits the water he can no longer move, all the tank / dps has to do is to carry on moving whilst your dps (mage,warlock,druid,etc) casts there spell and the kiter will never take any dam.

Also since ignis has been hot fixed he is now a boss we skip until the end of the week so we have longer to play around on the others (hard modes etc)

gl to all

Arvandor
05-27-2009, 07:04 PM
Has anybody checked to see if "brittle" counts as an incapacitate effect as far as a ret paladin and seal of command are concerned?

I ask because we were attempting him 10-man, with some fairly mediocre dps, and nobody with any really big hits that were gauranteed to shatter the golems (one ret paladin, two warlocks, an enh shaman, and I don't actually remember the 5th dps). The only way anyone in the party could hit for 5k+ was on a crit, so we were having the shaman spam lightning bolt and hope. It wasn't going very well, especially when he got potted. If we coulda had the ret paladin auto-judge crit for 7k or whatever, that woulda been awesome.

Of course, for most ret paladins that would require speccing into SoC =/ I dunno, if we end up with a similar setup of light-hitters next time we try Ulduar I'll have to experiment.

Mr.Winkle
05-28-2009, 02:31 AM
If your warlocks can't produce a 5k crit then you have problems.

Yes a Ret Pala could probably eat the aoe.

ragnarokroan
05-31-2009, 01:13 PM
Ignis - Using the extinguish scorch tactic:
YouTube - Warsong Warchiefs VS Ignis the Furnace Master (10man) http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t198/fbegum/ExtinguishScorch.jpg

It is by far the better tactic I've seen so far and done successfully with.

Do you think tankspot can recreate it maybe?

tandarus
06-04-2009, 08:30 AM
I was wondering. I saw a successful strategy done where Ignis heated the stones on the east side of the line running north to south between the water holes and the raid stood on the west side in the center. Is that acceptable in your opinion? It allows the raid to always avoid standing in fire and a fairly easy time for the tank to move him out of fire without Ignis having to travel too far to put someone in his slag pot.

The way I saw you folks do it 25 man was the way we succeeded in 10 man. The fire was dropped on all 4 corners near the water. In your opinion would either way work?

velouriam
06-04-2009, 11:42 AM
This encounter can be easy if ppl dont stress about it. Just have ur ot tank the constructs in the scorch. Give him a single target healer and just let him tank in the flame til the add gets 10 stacks. once brittle ot simply pulls him in nearest pool, and have ur mage one shot it when ur out of range of the burst. When i ot'd this last night, i found that even when my healer was in the slag i was able to tank a construct in the scorch long enough for him to get 10 stacks easily without me coming even close to dying. Side note...i found this fight very entertaining for a tank. It was something new and challenging instead of just standing in front of a boss.

Achelus
06-16-2009, 03:15 PM
Nice video, handy for tanks before they will engage Ignis for Their first time.
Maybe it will be a lil "offtop", but why all trying to force there offtanking in 10 man (normal) Ulduar?
Im tanking Ignis and all adds at once, with 1 tank + 3 healers + 6 dps raid group. As guild We think its a lot easier way to down Ignis then trying to britle adds. Sometimes its only way to do Ignis if Your offtanks arent able to do Their job well.
Im posting that only for guilds which dont have enough tanks/or got other tanking issues/ and think they arent able to do that. Now U know that its doable this way, so try it too ;)

Rasputinius
06-20-2009, 02:23 PM
A tactic suggestion for Ignis the Furnacemaster.

Hallo i play horde on the realm The Venture Co.

we have discovered a really simple and easy tactic for Ignis.
i don't know if it has been typed here yet, didn't read all posts. i made this post after watching the movie.

The tactic is we pull Ignis on mount and ride back to the left pool(when you enter the place) when he is positioned we turn him right away to his furnace so han can make a fire tower to molt the golems.
After he makes the fire tower the MT turns him tourch the left pool, so everytime he then tries to make a fire, it will not come.
but you do have to turn him around tourch his furnace every 20 second so he can do a new fire.
This will allow the OT to tank the add close to the water all the time and dont have to move much.

The raid will be positioned right behind Ignis, will be on the square after the middle line thingy.
we are using a Shaman who will be standing in the water line all the time, to blast 5k dmg.
doing this also make it much easier for the tank so see where the adds are coming from. since he wont have fire towers all over the place.
this way his vision will only be bad behind ignis(left side closest to the ramp)

I have personally used this tactic along with my Tanking Death knight and my healing Preist. and it works out quiet well. if someone is interested i would try and make a video showing excatly what we are doing.

uglybbtoo
06-21-2009, 08:34 PM
We have got this down now I would say the tactics that matter.

1.) The tank on ignis needs to straffe the moment you see the jets that put the hot spot on ground. Ideally you are never in the hot spot or only for a minimum time to help minimize damage on you. You healers are easily able to heal you thru it but that assumes they aren't do other things and its so easy to move it makes the healers life alot easier.

2.) The add tank needs to not panic and assuming the MT is doing the above even having 2 or 3 adds up is not dangerous to MT's health. The key is to tank the adds and only make them molten when everything is under control. The adds hit alot harder when they are molten and drop agro so you need to have that process under control.

3.) All dps including range should follow ignis around being at his back. If a healer gets stuck in pot all the raid is still in range of healer and if the OT gets stuck in pot the MT can grab any lose add because everyone is within taunt range.

How many spots and where I find matters little if you use the above.

ZacHowland
06-26-2009, 12:26 PM
Traditionally, exploiting the pathing is if you posistion yourself so mobs need to run in a way negating encounter mechanics - I call this strategy an exploit in that sense

That description would label kiting as an exploitation as well.

agranyoch
06-26-2009, 05:25 PM
Im curious what abilities besides Power Word: Shield will protect a player from the knock up/interrupt. Does Grounding Totem work?
Don't know about Grounding Totem, but hunters can use Deterrence to dodge two or even three Jets during the fight. Not that useful but nifty anyway. :P

PrimalHitman
06-29-2009, 06:17 AM
hey first of all can i say great video it helped us alot on out first attempts on Ignis this week (10 Man), we are struggling with handling the people in the slag pots especially if its druid who is rooting the constructs in the scorch area, i was just wondering if you guys could give us any advice on how to deal with this situation, as we are really struggling if this happens.

Thanks in advance :)

Silentknight

Death Knight Arcanum Stormrage EU

agranyoch
07-01-2009, 01:09 AM
hey first of all can i say great video it helped us alot on out first attempts on Ignis this week (10 Man), we are struggling with handling the people in the slag pots especially if its druid who is rooting the constructs in the scorch area, i was just wondering if you guys could give us any advice on how to deal with this situation, as we are really struggling if this happens.
What do you mean exactly by struggling with the handling the people in slag pot? Them dying or what? First of all, it's good to remind everyone that you CAN heal yourself (if you are capable of healing, that is), use healthstones/pots and so on in Slag Pot. Also, assing backup for the druid who is responsible for rooting the constructs - for example, hunters/mages/pretty much anyone can kite the constructs around until the druid is free again.

Rasputinius
07-03-2009, 07:53 PM
hey first of all can i say great video it helped us alot on out first attempts on Ignis this week (10 Man), we are struggling with handling the people in the slag pots especially if its druid who is rooting the constructs in the scorch area, i was just wondering if you guys could give us any advice on how to deal with this situation, as we are really struggling if this happens.

Thanks in advance :)

Silentknight

Death Knight Arcanum Stormrage EU

Well in my guild we are using a tank to keep the add inside the fire so we wont risk that like this here will happend. yes it might be a little healing intense but any healer should be able to keep up on the heals. well if you got t7 you can easely do it, i got my preist to lvl 80 my guild took me through naxx 10 and i did some hcs and i got t7 gear, well shortly after the wanted me in uld 10 and uld 25. so it is possible to keep up on the heals. you can always check out Cassundra on The Venture Co. Guild: Group of Amateurs. see gear and achs it is possible with that "crap" gear. :)

zelikofcc
07-06-2009, 03:15 PM
i have a few ideas if you dont have a druid in 10 man.
1. eat it and suck it up. (worst possible.)
2. have a pally tank stun lock them inside with seal & hammer of justice. (my strat)
3. have a warrior tank kite them back and forth while slowing them with a hunter trap. (really bad idea but it worked...... well at least we downed him)

uglybbtoo
07-06-2009, 08:05 PM
A warrior can concussion blow or shockwave to stun them in the same manner as a pally no need to kite.

zelikofcc
07-09-2009, 12:49 AM
touche ugly touche. basicly sense they are stunable it makes the adds easy to get molten now. i still like having a druid though :)

The Leviathan
07-09-2009, 04:51 PM
Ok, here is the fully explained and now properly illustrated guide to super ultra easy mode I'm here to collect my free lewts Ignis. If you follow this strat and fail to 1 shot him with ease you have no business in Ulduar whatsoever.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c378/LeviathanPrime/Ignis.jpg?t=1247183291

Position ranged and healers on the raised ledge that exists in all but the very middle on each side of the room around the water. This places the majority of the raid directly behind the innactive constructs but about 1 yard off the floor and roughly 1/2 way down from the large pools. We did this for 2 reasons. This ledge has a sharp edge on the side facing the center of the room and a gradual slope on the side facing the pool behind the raid. When constructs become molten, they reset aggro. Constructs cannot path directly to a ranged dps or healer who is standing on the raised ledge. This works to our advantage.

That leads to the 2nd reason. This forces the constructs to run up the only way they can reach the ledge, through the water as they attempt to come up the gradual slope on the back side of the ledge. The end result is the constructs becoming molten, aggroing onto healers since we root them in scorch, and making themselves brittle. Additionally, if they are 1/2 way across the ledge they will be out of range from the AOE caused both by them being molten and then when they are shattered. This strat allows healers and ranged to be fully in LOS of all melee and tanks at all times. It should be noted that Ignis doesn't fall prey to the need to path around the ledge due to his height so it allows him to grab players without having to cause a massive positioning issue.

At the start tank him with his right side to the ledge (either of the 2 ledges furthest from Ignis will do but this will follow the graphic). We have melee stand just in front of the ledge. Tank him with his sides and back facing melee and ranged, and move as indicated. If you start moving as he casts scorch you don't take dmg from it and since he' can only have 2 up at any time you always have a place to stand if you move to the oldest one each time by following the path shown. We only have to assign 1 person to kite constructs into the scorches, 2 people to snare them inside, and no one has to worry about them once they become molten they reset aggro and get healer aggro that takes care of their pathing straight into the water. A single ranged dps doesn't even have to move as they are in LOS from the point where they become brittle as they shatter them.

The pull can be done by the tank mounting and proximity aggroing Ignis and hightailing it to the MT position indicated that is the furthest from Ignis in the graphic or just having a hunter misdirect. Healers, DPS, jsut need to make sure they understand to not touch ignis until the tank is in position with Ignis on them. He will drop 1 scorch before getting to the tank so melee should stand off to 1 side until he does.

This method will enable even low DPS guilds to do the boss for the speed kill with ease.

Ollin
07-16-2009, 12:52 AM
We tried a new tactic tonight that I haven't read in the thread that I thought I'd mention because it looks like a sound tactic when we tried it even though we wiped (DC and other connection issues mostly).

When I was OTing the adds for our successful attempts (I heal now) I noticed that the hard part was getting aggro back after the golems go molten because of the threat drop combined with the intense healing required to keep up both tanks. Nine times out of ten, when a molten golem goes out of control it beelines to a healer.

Well, we simply had the healers stand in the shallow end of a pool and move whenever a molten golem brittled itself!

The down side of this is that you limit how far from the healer pool Ignus can be tanked, but you also don't need to move Ignus that far so long as the ranged DPS know to not stand between the newest flame pillar (where the OT is tanking golems) and the healers (because if they do the molten golems run right by them and they get tagged with their immolate aura).

Our next Ignus attempt we're going to combine this with a lazy root strategy. The OT's only real job next time will be to lead golems into the flame pillars so they can be rooted. After that he can leave them alone and make a sammich or something while he waits for the next golem to be summoned.

Fetzie
07-16-2009, 05:44 AM
On our latest ignis 10 man kill the guy tanking ignis died so I just tanked him + the adds in front of the water so the adds wouldnt get heated. We will probably use this tactic in future kills (the tank would then go DPS meaning a faster kill and less adds :D)

If your dps are having trouble shattering adds maybe this could be a viable approach to the fight?

Chamenas
07-16-2009, 02:37 PM
The problem there, Pyrea, is that Ignis gains additional attack power for each add that is alive. If you're not killing them, then he's eventually get enough stacks to one-shot the tank... unless you have sufficient dps to burn him before he gets that far. But if you have sufficient dps, you shouldn't have a problem shattering the adds.

uglybbtoo
07-16-2009, 08:12 PM
You usually don't get one shotted really the problem is if you straffe late when he does the new fire spot that damage or fall damage from being tossed up combined with him at new increased damage will kill you.

Even standing in the pond doesn't stop the first tick of the fire spot before it extinguishes from what I have been told but I am sure someone can confirm.

Each add is only 20% extra damage so you can easily work out how many adds you can tolerate by watching your HP but the extra damage from the fire spot and falls you can't easily factor. That said a tank with good trinket and shield wall control should be able to negate those 2 events but thats the weakness it all hinges on the tank keeping damage down and dps killing him before add numbers get out of control.

Chamenas
07-17-2009, 06:45 AM
and dps killing him before add numbers get out of control.

And if your dps can do that, trust me it can kill the brittle adds :)

Corosan
07-24-2009, 08:34 AM
Hi,
I have a problem with the ignis encounter.
With my 10man grp we approach ignis with the 4 point taktik just like in the video on this site. Now we have started the 25man cause we finally have enought people again for doing so but there is 2-3 player's that find a 3 point better ,which happens to be the 2 guild leader's an the raid leader, by simple just turning ignis. first encounter we had was under my lead using this 4 point and he went down after the 2nd try,first try to get used to the taktik. But now they have the lead again an insist on 3 point which leaves us every time not making the encounter and people are getting board of not making it. but the leaders wont let of the 3points.
My question>What are the advantages in the 4point?
Just so i can argue with good enought reason to do this in 4points rather than 3.Its not just my opinon that ignis goes down better than that taktik.
They pritty hard headed our leader's =)
MFG
Corosan

Cathleen
07-24-2009, 11:44 AM
Easy mode. We use 2 tanks (me, paladin, and a druid) with 40K or better HP (buffed). I just pick up adds and tank them right behind Ignis so I can get a good 40 whacks in as well. We tank Ignis with the MT in the water, so when he scortches, it is put out immediately. I usually end up with around 6-8 (I have done up to 12 before all of our 10 man was 25 man geared) adds before he dies. This likely won't work for 25 man, but this is how I have always done 10 man. As long as you have strong DPS able to down him in the time alotted for the speed kill (or maybe a bit over) you can easily just tank all of the adds. On a well geared tank if they hit you, they don't hit that hard.

lakalian
08-18-2009, 01:38 PM
Can someone please tell me how much dps you need for range and melee to kill this boss? My guild dpsers can produce 3k to 3.5k in naxx 25 on patch but none of them can produce more than 2.8k in uld10 especially this boss. why?
How much healing lvl do you need for this boss?

Noep
08-24-2009, 09:30 AM
Your dps should be easily able to produce higher numbers on ignis, 1 reason why they might not be able to get higher numbers is that your raid is moving to much.
On the first page i believe there is a picture and very indepth description of how to do this encounter easily.

also your castes may be getting silenced by casting a spell when ignis uses his silence (cant remeber the name off the top of my head"

healers in naxx 25 gear are easily good enough to heal this fight on 10man.


good luck

Hauby
09-27-2009, 01:57 AM
hey :)

atm my guild have done 5 of the ulduar bosses, as we are casual, so the time we have to move through these are limited so we would like to get as much done as possible

we have attempted ignis in the ways above and in the end just went for the 'i will put myself in the water,stack behind and nuke' approach.

due to our usual tanking duo where missing we had 2 frost Dk's, My question is:

would hungering cold effect the adds, as when they are becoming alot to handle for the off tank, he could pop that and give himself a few seconds to get back in position etc or are they immune? i ask this because of the rooting that can be put on them but unsure whether other CC spells could be used on them aswell.

TY :)

Daimon
09-27-2009, 02:03 PM
yup, hungering cold works if i rem well, but if they are getting swarmed or your DPS is low or they need more gear.

Darmaul
10-15-2009, 01:30 PM
Hi,
I have a problem with the ignis encounter.
With my 10man grp we approach ignis with the 4 point taktik just like in the video on this site. Now we have started the 25man cause we finally have enought people again for doing so but there is 2-3 player's that find a 3 point better ,which happens to be the 2 guild leader's an the raid leader, by simple just turning ignis. first encounter we had was under my lead using this 4 point and he went down after the 2nd try,first try to get used to the taktik. But now they have the lead again an insist on 3 point which leaves us every time not making the encounter and people are getting board of not making it. but the leaders wont let of the 3points.
My question>What are the advantages in the 4point?
Just so i can argue with good enought reason to do this in 4points rather than 3.Its not just my opinon that ignis goes down better than that taktik.
They pritty hard headed our leader's =)
MFG
Corosan

Biggest advantage to 4 point in my opinion is smooth kiting. You can kite to the next position without having to path through an existing scorch field. Additionally, the scorch field always has a side near the pool so the OT can bring the Molten add quickly to a pool before the Molten-ness wears off.

As far as downside to 3 point positioning, it really depends what 3 points you're using. If you're doing it against the wall and kiting in more of a 3 position arc, then only downside I see might be getting the Molten add to the pool quickly enough.


Here's a better question to answer. Why is your three point strategy NOT working? There's nothing inherently *wrong* with either approach. What generally kills the raids are casters getting silenced by flame jets, Loose Adds or add tank dying to Molten adds (which hit MUCH harder). Identify the actual problem you're having and fix that. It may be unrelated to your positioning of Ignis.

Baelik
11-08-2009, 02:13 AM
I know its a bit late to post an alternative on this encounter on 10 man. During one of our runs when we were melee heavy and didn't have the ranged critter for destroying the adds we resorted to the tank/spank method of tanking him in the water.

Positioning:
One Tank tanks the boss standing in the water.
Healers/Casters/Melee all in Melee range just behind the boss.
Hunters slightly behind them.

Dealing with Adds:
In the early days before ToC we used to have one hunter MD the adds onto the MT. Lately I've become more confident at this and have begun checking for adds and taunting them off as they get closer to the group.

Flame Jets:
In this strategy the only thing to note is that when Ignis casts Flame Jets you still get tossed in the air. When this happens the adds have a tendency to come behind you. To avoid unmitigated blows on you from behind you'll have to step back a little.

This works very well for me as a protadin. I'm thinking its the benefits of having a block set that keeps the damage under control. As adds increase the damage gets more spiky and you'll be forced to use your CDs. But generally the easiest path to Stoking the Furnace for a melee heavy group.