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Ciderhelm
04-19-2009, 02:22 AM
vBPyfOnf18g

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UI/ADDON INFORMATION:
Lore's UI (10 Man Videos): http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f211/45772-lore-s-ui.html
Ciderhelm's UI (25 Man Videos): http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f211/41095-ciderhelm-ui-information.html
Please post any questions about UI/Addon's in their respective threads and not in this thread

Muffin Man
04-19-2009, 02:52 AM
Awesome. We skipped Iron Council and went straight to Kologarn. Now we know what to do when we pick up next =p

Ciderhelm
04-19-2009, 02:55 AM
Movie is up.

Krashtork
04-19-2009, 02:56 AM
/popcorn

Looking forward to this one. Great job on the videos so far. Though I will say a criticism I have is that you guys tend to down play some of the dangerous elements. Example: Kologarn 10 man hits like a freight train even without the stacking debuff. Was quite surprised to find out first hand.

Ciderhelm
04-19-2009, 02:59 AM
Download is up for donors!

oddmorgan
04-19-2009, 03:04 AM
what raid composition did you use?

Ciderhelm
04-19-2009, 03:06 AM
In that movie, two tanks. The first tank handled the Runemaster and Stormcaller at the same time in the back until Steelbreaker was dead.

Critshappen
04-19-2009, 07:58 AM
The debuff that the tank gains from Steelbreaker, what school is it magic?

Fayre
04-19-2009, 08:02 AM
Yes, its dispellable by priests, anyway.

Joacimcans
04-19-2009, 08:34 AM
It is worth mentioning you need to dispel fusion punch like as it is being cast it does really high damage to the steelbreacker tank (like you will die if you isn't being spam dispelled while he is casting it). I actually double tanked steelbreaker and the rune master without much problem in 10man.

squats
04-19-2009, 08:43 AM
its worth mentioning that this is one fight where warrior tanks are probably the best to have. warriors can stun just about every spell stormcaller try's to cast, and they are capable of keeping him stunned for quite a while.
a warriors shield slam will also despell Runemaster's shield

Gertiploiss
04-19-2009, 11:36 AM
Why didn't you have this up before last night T.T We got to Iron Council and decided to use 3 tanks Q_Q

Beatzz
04-19-2009, 12:14 PM
we downed them last night, in 5 attempts. Really great fight.

A great set up on the two smaller adds is a wariror tank and a resto shamman. When Steelbreaker dies you guys can co-ordinate interrupts on lightning whirl and chain lightings. It is also very easy for EVERYONE to dodge the overload, i was tanking and could easily run out by the time it hit.

ALSO, while tanking brundir when he uses the lighting tenticles a tank can taunt him and people can just move from the tank

Riftchoas
04-19-2009, 03:03 PM
Hey im sure you have said it in the video but i dont have audio at work. when you get on phase 2 we only had a problem with the big green death runes. they usualy droped on our healers and they dont have enough time to get out. do we all need to be stacked for this,(damage reduce by more ppl in the deathrune)? we never saw a cast timer for it either looks like a instant cast...

Gertiploiss
04-19-2009, 03:08 PM
It's an instant cast and Ciderhelm stated that you should spread out because it targets a specific player.

Riftchoas
04-19-2009, 03:12 PM
Like i said i cant hear any audio in the video cause i dont have any speakers at work.
But we were spread out, but our problem was who ever was targeted did not have enough time to get out, or for our healers to try keep him up

Beatzz
04-19-2009, 03:18 PM
Like i said i cant hear any audio in the video cause i dont have any speakers at work.
But we were spread out, but our problem was who ever was targeted did not have enough time to get out, or for our healers to try keep him up

Awareness in this fight is key, hell every fight in ulduar requires it. Make sure healers are always focusing on them selves and raid, its a needed skill

Dehumanized
04-19-2009, 07:13 PM
we have been getting our asses handed to us for a few hours now by the council. we have been trying to run 2 tanks, druid/pally. will a warrior tank make a huge difference? we have gotten to phase 2 but not too far into it, we usually get eaten alive by the rune shield.

Harimella
04-19-2009, 10:26 PM
I didn't see this movie yet, but I bet it is pure golden and great.

Anyway, we killed Council yesterday on 25 man version. Big guy was tanked by our feral druid tank on the right in boss room and 2 other bosses were tanked by me (warrior tank) on the left side. After big guy was dead, feral tank took middle size guy away from me.
It took us few attempts, but it was a lot easier fight than Deconstructor, at least for my guild.

Warrior tank is perfect for tanking those 2 smaller bosses. Shield bash, Concussion Blow, Shockwave, Revenge, Charge after Overload. I had one rogue who was assisting me on interrupts.

Fun encounter, I really like it and can't wait untill wednesday's reset. :D

Baklash
04-19-2009, 10:41 PM
My guild on Stormrage decides a bit better way (for us) of course to maximize dps on Steelbreaker, by increasing the chances for the rune to land under Steelbreaker. What we did was (With 2 tanks at our disposal for 10man content) we have our OT (Paladin) run in and aggro Molgeim and Brundir, while MT taunts Steelbreaker off of him and kites him to the entrance of the room. The OT then silences (with the assistance of a rogue) to the very back of the room (where he will stay and not move, due to not having a range on his chained lightning). Once Brundir is in positioned at the back, the OT then takes Molgeim to the front of the room with Steelbreaker, and we continue DPS on Steelbreaker. After Steelbreaker falls then you would resume as your video allready suggests. Provides to be alot more benefitial for the raid as a whole with only two tanks at the disposal of the strategy. Just a strategy that worked for us, and i'de like to see a TankSpot quality video illustrating this if you guys feel it would work better for you as well.

Wretche
04-20-2009, 01:51 AM
For our attempts we had a DK tank on Stormcaller and Molgeim, the DK tank worked really well for a couple of reasons.

1. Overload (http://ptr.wowhead.com/?spell=63481) - When Stormcaller started to cast Overload (http://ptr.wowhead.com/?spell=63481) I poped AMS and damage was nothing didn't even bother to move.

2. Rune of Power (http://ptr.wowhead.com/?spell=64320) - When Molgeim cast Rune of Power (http://ptr.wowhead.com/?spell=64320) he would hit me for up to 18k, so moving him out of the buff fast was essential. I found sometimes it can be a little inconvient to move Stormcaller out of the buff and he'll go crazy with increased damage Chain Lightning (http://ptr.wowhead.com/?spell=64215) on the raid. I was able to get around this thanks to either deathgripping him out of the RoP or Strangulate worked as well. Both fast and easy ways to reposition them.

3. Lightning Whirl (http://ptr.wowhead.com/?spell=63483) - much like a warrior tank, DK's can interupt with Mind Freeze (http://ptr.wowhead.com/?spell=47528), I waited for Whirl and interupted. also to help interupt other casts and help the healers deathgrip and strangulate still work to interupt and reposition.

Biernot
04-20-2009, 04:10 AM
Our setup for 10-man looked like this:

Paladin MT
Warrior OT
Healer: paladin, shaman, disc priest. Paladin on MT, shaman on MT+raid, priest on OT(+raid).
DPS: DK, 2 rogues, warlock, ele shaman

The paladin MT helps the healers in phase 1 a lot by dispelling the magic dot himself, so they can focus on other things and using JoL to smoothen out the aoe from Steelbreaker. The disc priest tosses a PoM in the melee dps from time to time, otherwise he can focus on the OT, who can take considerable damage spikes. Alternatively priest and paladin could have swapped assignements.

In phase 1 we waited for a convenient Rune of Power, then blew heroism with the dps standing in it.
Timings: Steelbreaker dead after 2min20s, Runemaster after 5min, Stormcaller after 9min.

For those interested, our paladin MT frapsed the kill:
YouTube - Ulduar Der eiserne Rat 10er

(sry for german interface, but I think that doesn't really matter. Also you should turn off the annotations)

Ciderhelm
04-20-2009, 06:52 AM
If I remember, I'll get an addendum for phase 3 positioning. We had the raid divide up around Brundir into four corners. When he'd go up in the air, the target of his tendrils would run to the center. He moves fast so he does hit a few other players, but the whole raid can keep DPS and healing up through it.

Valkor
04-20-2009, 08:27 AM
ALSO, while tanking brundir when he uses the lighting tenticles a tank can taunt him and people can just move from the tank


Did this fight last night and when i taunted during the tentacles phase it said Immune, second warrior tank tried it right after my try and said the same thing for him. Tried it again in 10 man and said Immune. It still wasn't a big deal, we didn't lose anyone from it, just make sure your raiders run away from it if it starts coming in their direction

Beatzz
04-20-2009, 11:20 AM
Did this fight last night and when i taunted during the tentacles phase it said Immune, second warrior tank tried it right after my try and said the same thing for him. Tried it again in 10 man and said Immune. It still wasn't a big deal, we didn't lose anyone from it, just make sure your raiders run away from it if it starts coming in their direction
yea thats wierd, it worked for me, i guess it coula been glitchy or buggy, who knows. But yea just keep people running :)

shrukiv
04-20-2009, 03:21 PM
since we have no geared warrior tanks ulduar-ready yet (druid and paladin so lacking in interrupts for phase 2) is it viable to take two of them down to ~10% in turn in phase one then nuke both at the same time to skip phase 2 entirely?

Dehumanized
04-20-2009, 03:58 PM
since we have no geared warrior tanks ulduar-ready yet (druid and paladin so lacking in interrupts for phase 2) is it viable to take two of them down to ~10% in turn in phase one then nuke both at the same time to skip phase 2 entirely?
no, when you kill one, the others go back to full health.

Bowjangles
04-21-2009, 06:23 AM
In our 10 man, we had the OT just focus on Runemaster while Stormcaller wasn't even so much as targeted until Steelbreaker was down. Stormcaller will stay stationary unless you interrupt the Chain Lighting, so he just hangs out in the back while everyone is towards the front, plenty of room between Stormcaller and his Overload. All he does is chain lightning, which is perfectly healable through even when he gets a rune. Having Runemaster tanked in the front gives the raid a 66% chance to get a beneficial rune, assuming Runemaster doesn't play favorites. Also, having Runemaster closer to the front allows a mage to spellsteal his Sheild of Runes, which is easily triggered by Stormcallers chain lightning.

marklar
04-26-2009, 03:29 AM
quick question about that. our mages were saying they couldn't spellsteal and the shammy said not purgeable on the shield during phase 2.

anyone else have that issue?

Stuberto
04-26-2009, 11:52 AM
The Shield of Runes can be stolen by mages in 25 and 10 man raids.
The shield was likely being dispelled or broken by other raiders before the mages were able to get it. When dps is on the Runemaster the shield is destroyed in a flash, only way to steal it is to spam spellsteal while Runemaster is casting.

Meloniks
04-27-2009, 06:30 AM
I have a question regarding Brundir. Is he tauntable during whole fight? On your movie I can see tank moving him out of RoP, which I was not able to do ( 10man version ), he was like stuck to the ground :(

Hamburglar
04-27-2009, 06:32 AM
He is tauntable in phases 1 and 2 but not in 3.

Skyborn
04-27-2009, 06:45 AM
I have a question regarding Brundir. Is he tauntable during whole fight? On your movie I can see tank moving him out of RoP, which I was not able to do ( 10man version ), he was like stuck to the ground :(

Like any caster, you're going to need to interrupt/silence him to get him to follow you out of the RoP. Shieldbash / Heroic Throw etc etc.

marklar
04-27-2009, 02:51 PM
The Shield of Runes can be stolen by mages in 25 and 10 man raids.
The shield was likely being dispelled or broken by other raiders before the mages were able to get it. When dps is on the Runemaster the shield is destroyed in a flash, only way to steal it is to spam spellsteal while Runemaster is casting.

well, it definitely wasn't being broken. in fact, we ended up stopping dps every time it came up and waited until it expired to prevent the damage increase buff.

hmm, we'll try again next lockout period and see if it's any different. it's strange, but 3 different raid members all said the same thing.

Meloniks
05-01-2009, 03:17 PM
Like any caster, you're going to need to interrupt/silence him to get him to follow you out of the RoP. Shieldbash / Heroic Throw etc etc.

Cheers:)
We got specially for this fight a DK to interrupt his casts, which was a waste of place at the end :). I did great as a druid with my bash ( 2 points in talents ) and lots of feral charges. Also I had shammy healer and he also did a gr8 job. The thing is....after we downed them on tuesday, bastards from Bilzz nerf'ed them on wednesday. We had same with XT-002 week before......It is starting to be a bit anoying.

Machus
05-04-2009, 07:21 PM
This gave us trouble tonight for a few attempts. Two things helped us succeed:

- In phase one (Steelbreaker), resist the temptation to have the whole raid bunch up on the blue runes, because you risk deaths from chain lightning. Ranged should probably stay spread out where they are. The enrage timer is not that hard.

- In phase 2 (Molgim), have several interrupters on Brondir reliably interrupting his Wirlwind Lightning, and ignoring other spells. I think Brondir got healed to full when P3 started, not positive of this, but even so interrupts made the fight easy.

Thellerwin
05-09-2009, 02:52 AM
After many wipes on IC, I specced for 2/2 Throwing Specialization and it made entire fight walk in park.. Why? I just autoattacked the dwarf and whenever he was casting I used Fan of Knives, after overload I can use Deadly Throw for interrupt (but usualy tank charges in and interrupts) - this gives me two interrupts without cd. Works both on Chain Lightning and Lightning Whirl.

shez
05-10-2009, 08:35 PM
I've no problem getting all lighting whirls in p2 using shield bash, but we also have an ele shaman interupting chain lightening (25man. In 10man we just ignore chain lightening). I also occasionally use stuns to interupt chain lightening but save all shield bash for whirls.

hampi
05-10-2009, 10:24 PM
Like any caster, you're going to need to interrupt/silence him to get him to follow you out of the RoP. Shieldbash / Heroic Throw etc etc.

Does a druid bash work on him as well? He was pretty well cemented to the ground when I tried him last night.

Also, which directions did everyone pull the bosses?

Darksend
05-11-2009, 12:47 AM
Does a druid bash work on him as well? He was pretty well cemented to the ground when I tried him last night.

Also, which directions did everyone pull the bosses?


bash works but it stuns him so it is ineffective when trying to move them, same goes for feral charge and immobilizing them

Aradin
05-11-2009, 06:07 AM
Hey Ciderhelm its Aradin from Rivendare. I am a pally tank working on progression this week in Ulduar with The Grand Crusaders. Been watching your videos and I am really liking them. I have also been looking for better ways to optimize my game play by using new mods to help me out more. I've noticed and have most of the same mods as you, but would like to know what health bar mod your using that you can set in the middle of your screen like that showing your own and your targets health.

Get back at me whenever you can and please share any help you can provide me. Thank you very much .

Terra
05-11-2009, 06:23 AM
http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f211/41095-ciderhelm-ui-information.html (http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f211/41095-ciderhelm-ui-information.html)

Thanks for looking. :)

Arvera
05-11-2009, 02:33 PM
Hey Cider, I'm really interested in the mod you use to show your current health pool and rage in numbers above your target and target/target

Edit: Nevermind, it was in the post right before this one. Thanks!

Pashmerga
05-11-2009, 11:39 PM
What was the addon used too see your health and the targets health?

Moodyman
05-12-2009, 10:29 AM
My guild just downed these guys usin 3 tanks. Probably not ideal but we had 2 dk tanks and a pally tank. i tanked stormcaller by myself, and bein an unholy tank i was able to use my ghouls gnaw as an extra interrupt. So between mind freeze, strangulate, gnaw, and death grip when he was bein stubborn and wouldnt move out of the runes, it was very easy to keep him silenced almost the entire fight. the fight took a little longer bein down a dps, but overall it wasnt too tough

Gohnk
05-15-2009, 06:45 AM
As a warrior tank, I open the pull with a charge and take Brundir and Molgeim. Our Paladin taunts Steelbreaker back to the entrance. It is incredibly easy for a Warrior to solo the two smaller bosses. After the initial pull, applications of Thunderclap and Demo Shout are enough to keep threat on the two while dps focus on the big guy. So During phase one, you sit back and just ready your interrupts. Shockwave, Bash, and Conc Blow work on both Chain Lightning and Whirlwind. Just be aware that Bash is your only instant there. Save Heroic Throw when he's standing in the rune and needs to be silenced.

Besides the dispel being important, having the tank strafe away from Steelbreaker is best. The mob really needs to get out of that rune fast when it appears under him. He moves somewhat slow and this doesn't help. Walking backwards is too slow and you don't want to put your back to him when he's on that rune. So set yourself up.

If ranged can stay next to the wall if at all possible, because of the death rune, it's usually helpful.

Szentia
05-19-2009, 05:24 PM
After wiping for a couple of nights in 10 man using 1 paladin tank on the smaller bosses and me (warrior) on Steelbreaker we decided to do it like this:

Paladin on Steelbreaker by the entrance (can dispell himself instantly)
Warrior on Molgeim at the back left (Shield Slam removes his shield)
Unholy DK tanks Brundir on the back right with a single resto druid healing both the warrior and the DK who takes very very little damage on this Brundir

It seems a bit overkill to do it with 3 tanks on 10 man but it works for us.
Unfortunately we had to stop early for the night due to a DC but we've got this strat nailed and are looking forward to the kill on Thursday.

Missnowflake
05-27-2009, 07:51 AM
As always thank you! We failed last night on this fight, but now I am going to have everyone in the raid come watch this before we go in. And as always the videos are great! Most people have to see the fight, they cant just listen and do what they are told =) tankspot is fail proof!

dagimp007
05-28-2009, 07:44 AM
so i have an idea for killing these guys in diffrent orders, but i was wondering.....

Do there healths reset after each one dies, or can you get all there health down to like 5-10% and then just pick them off in what ever order u want?

dagimp007
05-28-2009, 07:46 AM
After wiping for a couple of nights in 10 man using 1 paladin tank on the smaller bosses and me (warrior) on Steelbreaker we decided to do it like this:

Paladin on Steelbreaker by the entrance (can dispell himself instantly)
Warrior on Molgeim at the back left (Shield Slam removes his shield)
Unholy DK tanks Brundir on the back right with a single resto druid healing both the warrior and the DK who takes very very little damage on this Brundir

It seems a bit overkill to do it with 3 tanks on 10 man but it works for us.
Unfortunately we had to stop early for the night due to a DC but we've got this strat nailed and are looking forward to the kill on Thursday.


bad strat.... your pally should have both Steelbreaker and Molgeim... while u are on Brundir interupting his stuff

Mehiaku
05-29-2009, 03:45 AM
Hey all!! I thought I would put in my 2 cents and forgive me if this is repeated...!
After wiping on Council about 9 times in 10 man we were wondering if the strategy above worked...we used a Warrior tank at the back on Runemaster and Stormcaller with a pally healer and I tanked Steelbreaker near the door with a holy priest on me and a drood healing grp and backing up the priest on fusion punch.
By accident on the 10th try, I pulled Steelbreaker and Runemaster and left the Warrior with the little guy. We decided to ride it out and see what would happen and holy crap was it easy!! The Warrior and his pally healer were actually bored at the back and the 2 bosses I had went down like girls. It took some cute kiting to use the blue runes to the best of our advantage but over all this was the easiest way. Give it a try!

popnfresh
06-16-2009, 06:41 AM
Great video. We actually did this in a organized pug, a mixture of 2 guilds when we attempted this. However due to the fact that we wernt entirely sure what we were in store for when each council member died or how we would be able to react to it. The rune circles and the lightning tendrils specifically. We dpsd molg and brun down to roughly 25-30% and then proceeded to take down steelbreaker from 100%-0. After taking down molg we popped hero and took down brun relatively easy.

Psycho Sh0T
06-16-2009, 10:23 AM
the addon that you used Hp bar for boss and seemed like yours on the right what addon would that be?

Surmaaja
06-16-2009, 10:02 PM
Great video. We actually did this in a organized pug, a mixture of 2 guilds when we attempted this. However due to the fact that we wernt entirely sure what we were in store for when each council member died or how we would be able to react to it. The rune circles and the lightning tendrils specifically. We dpsd molg and brun down to roughly 25-30% and then proceeded to take down steelbreaker from 100%-0. After taking down molg we popped hero and took down brun relatively easy.
The remaining ones gain their health back after you kill one of them so dpsing them is useless.

Khameelyon
11-05-2009, 03:36 PM
Okay, so, I know this thread is old, and I get the gist of the fight with a warrior tank. I've had several attempts made with a warrior tanking Brundir in the back, so I know how it goes.

What happens when you don't have a Warrior in the raid?

I'm leading a newly formed 10 man raid group through Uld on our way to ToC/ToGC. I've got two great pally tanks, great DPS, and working on the healers, but no Warrior to be found anywhere. Does Brundir's tank have to be defense capped? Or could I put my DPS DK in the back for a "3" tank setup? What about putting a Rogue in the back with the Pally tank, or does that kill the DPS on Stormcaller too much? I really feel like we have the interrupts between the DK, my Enhance shammy, and my Rogue, but I'm just not sure how hard Brundir hits or how quickly my DPS can down Stormcaller in the front.

Thanks in advance.

Insahnity
11-05-2009, 03:47 PM
If the shaman could go Ele, and with proper placement, you could in theory have the shaman interrupting ranged while still DPSing other targets. I'd have the shaman make a macro to Windshear the Focus target (Brundir) with cast bars up.

Muffin Man
11-10-2009, 12:28 AM
To be honest, you can probably get away with not interrupting everything. When my guild was progressing through Ulduar we killed Brundir last, which meant I had him all to myself for the majority of the fight and it just wasn't possible to stop everything even as a warrior (well, I never got to crazy with warbringer).

The Brundir tank doesn't have to be D-capped, since he spends the majority of the time casting and if you lock him out of nature or silence him he doesn't melee for that hard (4 - 5k on plate I believe?).

But on 10-man if you have 3 healers and are killing Steelbreaker first you can afford to let a few (or more) lightning bolts get through. I would prioritize interrupting chain lightning in phase one. Then lightning whirl in phase 2 (you can't let those get through however). Remember he's stunnable and silenceable until phase 3.

CatabriOnEarthen
11-14-2009, 10:56 AM
The Brundir tank doesn't have to be D-capped, since he spends the majority of the time casting and if you lock him out of nature or silence him he doesn't melee for that hard (4 - 5k on plate I believe?).

Hmmm, how to convince my DPS warrior to let himself get punched in the face? We tried this a couple of times last night, it was getting late, and we were all tired. We still need to work on our positioning for heals and such.

I just wish some of our guildmates had more patience. The grumbling starts after 2 wipes, and bailout is widespread after 3. Any suggestions on that?

Ryoku
11-15-2009, 11:25 AM
Well our guild never had a warrior for any runs sofar in ulduar and it worked quite fine.

The strategy we use is 1 tankadine takes steelbraker at the entrance and the other tankadine gets the other 2 bosses in the back. He interrupts what he can, we get steelbreaker quickly down, i take molgein (forgot how to write it again ;) we down him paying special attention to the green runes.

Than finaly we all go on brundir and our dk heps a lot with the interrups.

What might work is using a fellhunter for the interrupts on brundir

CatabriOnEarthen
11-15-2009, 11:38 AM
Well our guild never had a warrior for any runs sofar in ulduar and it worked quite fine.

The strategy we use is 1 tankadine takes steelbraker at the entrance and the other tankadine gets the other 2 bosses in the back. ...

What might work is using a fellhunter for the interrupts on brundir

Well, what I have, is 1 DK tank, 1 Tankadin and one dps warrior. No warlock. So, we did try it again last night, and got Steelbreaker, and Molgeim down. The transition to Brunndir went badly, and we didn't get his lightning whirl interrupted. We just need a little more practice at them. 4 total attempts, and we did almost have it the last one. So, that's what we will concentrate on next week.

Ryoku
11-16-2009, 04:24 AM
I hope what you are doing is leaving the tanakdin on steelbreaker and then on molgein, and the dk just takes care of Brundir. I don't know if all dks (all 3 specs) have so many interrupts but our dk has an interrupt ready +/- every 10 secs.

The esiest way to get brundit under control is to simply interrupt him, when he is casting something and then pull him in the middle.

CatabriOnEarthen
11-16-2009, 11:09 AM
I hope what you are doing is leaving the tanakdin on steelbreaker and then on molgein, and the dk just takes care of Brundir. I don't know if all dks (all 3 specs) have so many interrupts but our dk has an interrupt ready +/- every 10 secs.

The esiest way to get brundit under control is to simply interrupt him, when he is casting something and then pull him in the middle.

Not quite what we did, but I am thinking that when we transition to Molgeim, the DK goes to Brundir and commences to Mind Freeze and strangulate him, then DG him out of runes. That sounds like a win plan to me.

Flycry
11-25-2009, 09:31 AM
just a quick question really. I am in a guild and we are just going into uldy and skipped the iron council and moved on. The group that usually goes is myself protadin and a frost dk. Which would be best holding the 2 at the back of the room myself or the dk?

Kazeyonoma
11-25-2009, 11:04 AM
either is okay, just have someone help you with interrupts. Shouldn't be a problem.