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Ciderhelm
04-17-2009, 03:36 AM
p21xBLPTuUU

http://www.tankspot.com/forums/images/snowfall/donorbanner.jpg (http://www.tankspot.com/premium.php)



http://www.stratfu.com/img/logo.png
Reposted with permission. Click here to view Stratfu's Razorscale page! (http://www.stratfu.com/strats/Razorscale)

Razorscale in flight
Devouring Flame (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=63816): When in the air, Razorscale will drop a blue fireball onto an area of the ground that deals about 7k (on Normal) and 9k (on Heroic) damage per second to players sitting within the area.
Fireball (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=63815): When in the air, Razorscale will very frequently throw Fireballs at individual players, dealing about 12k damage on Heroic.

Iron Dwarves
Chain Lightning: Dark Rune Watchers that exit the mole machines while Razorscale is flying can Chain Lightning, which increases damage as it hits subsequent players. The raid should be spread out to limit the punishment from this ability.
Whirlwind: The Dark Rune Sentinels that appear as part of some of the Mole Machine packs have a Whirlwind ability that hits players around them. Lightly armored players should stay away from these mobs.

Razorscale grounded
Flame Breath (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=64021): 17500-22500 frontal cone fire damage ability.
Wing Buffet (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=62666): Knocks back all players within 35 yards. Some players at maximum range should be able to avoid this ability.

Razorscale permanently grounded
He has the two normal "grounded" abilities and adds:
Flame Buffet (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=64023): Increases fire damage taken by all players (1500 on Heroic, 1000 on Normal); applies in an infinite-range AoE around Razorscale periodically. This forms a "soft enrage" mechanic for Razorscale's ground phase.
Fuse Armor (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=64771): This debuff stacks on your tank and will eventually kill him.
UI/ADDON INFORMATION:
Lore's UI (10 Man Videos): http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f211/45772-lore-s-ui.html
Ciderhelm's UI (25 Man Videos): http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f211/41095-ciderhelm-ui-information.html
Please post any questions about UI/Addon's in their respective threads and not in this thread

Jivatma
04-17-2009, 03:41 AM
first. w00t! first first evah!*waits for encoding*

Hopefulki
04-17-2009, 04:00 AM
nice :) we downed him today on 25 but phase 2 was rough X_x

Very excited to see how you did it

Ciderhelm
04-17-2009, 04:09 AM
Movie up! Will add more as soon as possible.

Gústav
04-17-2009, 04:23 AM
Just a quick question!

We had some problems with this encounter at the point when she breaks free and we need to start the tank rotation to avoid the "fuse armor". Can the OT stand next to the MT and still not get the debuff?

Is it the target of razor that get's the debuff or is it from the breath?

Great video, thx!

Ciderhelm
04-17-2009, 04:37 AM
I honestly don't have an answer to the question Gustav, as that was our first time going into Phase 2 during the raid. I don't believe it's a result of her breath but I could be incorrect.


Donors, the movie will be up in about 20 minutes for download.

Mishap
04-17-2009, 04:38 AM
Donors, the movie will be up in about 20 minutes for download.

<3

Karpfenmann
04-17-2009, 04:40 AM
Great Video!
Hope we will get down this boss today.
Is the 10 man encouter same as the 25 man ?

Jivatma
04-17-2009, 04:48 AM
Great Video!
Hope we will get down this boss today.
Is the 10 man encouter same as the 25 man ?

i'm no pro, but what i know says the only difference (rather then HP, damage, etc) is that 2 turrets are needed to ground her, not all 4

Blackhawk
04-17-2009, 04:52 AM
10 and 25 man are almost the same.
Only difference being, that in the 10 man you only need 2 harpoons, to get her to the ground.
So, with this in mind, you can apply the same tactics.

Hopefulki
04-17-2009, 05:03 AM
@Karp, the 10 man is the same with 2 harpoons and less adds/fireballs, but it follows the same mechanic.

Compared to 25 man, 10 man was a LOT easier imo, but like i said - same basics.

Oh, except 2 tanks so we did 1 tank on adds and 1 on the guardians until phase 2.

Hope this helped in some way

Mishap
04-17-2009, 05:19 AM
Interesting fight. Too bad kiting bosses are my bane... *sad face*

Horacio
04-17-2009, 05:30 AM
Just a quick question!

We had some problems with this encounter at the point when she breaks free and we need to start the tank rotation to avoid the "fuse armor". Can the OT stand next to the MT and still not get the debuff?

Is it the target of razor that get's the debuff or is it from the breath?

Great video, thx!

Maybe intervene the MT to get into position quick then take her?

great movie, will certainly be linking it gratuitously to the guild forums.

Maggeddon
04-17-2009, 06:51 AM
Lovely Video, just some questions:
On 10 men with 2 tanks, would you have one taking the sentinels and one the rest of the adds? Or would you split it up, have one tank with the melee picking up one side, and one tank with ranged DPS picking up the other, and have the ranged DPS tank pick up the sentinels as well?

Also, when tanking Razorscale properly, at how many stacks of the debuff did you switch tanks- it seemed Cider stayed tanking for a long time there.

Ciderhelm
04-17-2009, 06:52 AM
We switched when I could no longer reliably move out of flame patches. You can probably do it a lot sooner, though, and be safer about it.

Fayre
04-17-2009, 07:32 AM
Are you kiting her just to avoid flame patches or am I missing something? On 10 man last night I just sidestepped them and we readjusted.

Ciderhelm
04-17-2009, 07:37 AM
Are you kiting her just to avoid flame patches or am I missing something? On 10 man last night I just sidestepped them and we readjusted.
I'm kiting her because that's the first thing I thought to do when we entered Phase 2. That was our first time reaching it and all I knew is she dropped flame patches beneath her. :p

I'd bet it's just fine to keep her stationary and sidestep the patches. That's why I didn't say anything about it.

Ananais
04-17-2009, 08:00 AM
Lovely Video, just some questions:
On 10 men with 2 tanks, would you have one taking the sentinels and one the rest of the adds? Or would you split it up, have one tank with the melee picking up one side, and one tank with ranged DPS picking up the other, and have the ranged DPS tank pick up the sentinels as well?

Also, when tanking Razorscale properly, at how many stacks of the debuff did you switch tanks- it seemed Cider stayed tanking for a long time there.

I was wondering the same thing.

Xaldyn
04-17-2009, 08:10 AM
Great video! I was wondering if I could link this video on my guild forum? I'm not sure if I need permission.

Stompbox
04-17-2009, 08:12 AM
Great video! I was wondering if I could link this video on my guild forum?

They encourage you to do so, Xaldyn. Spread the word!

deramon
04-17-2009, 08:14 AM
I have a question about the add phase. After a half dozen wipes I got the idea to split the raid into 4 little groups to stay spread out and it went a "little" bit better, but maybe it's our DPS or something but we were just getting overwhelmed, each one of those adds have between 300-450k and we're getting 9-12 at a time, on a low end that 2.7 million worth of hit points to burn every 20 seconds or so before the next batch start coming in. We tried AoE, single target, at some point we seriously have like 20+ guys running around, I sorta figured it was bugged but with people downing him and watching your video maybe we just suck. We're in all 25m gear, had all old content on farm for quite a while now, but this just seems like a joke, watching your video you didn't seem to have as many guys come up as we were but maybe I just didn't notice them. I understand the Watcher Priority but how were you killing them so fast? Especially with haveing your raid split up, 3 guys having a total of 1 million health seems rough of 1/3 of your raid to kill real fast.

We seriously can't make it to harpoon her down.

Titangrip
04-17-2009, 08:36 AM
Ciderhelm, first of all great job on making this videos. Kudos to you!!

Regarding Razorscale25man, how much armor and movement speed does the Fuse Armor do and what is a safe amount of stacks before the OT must taunt?

Also, where do the OT stand? Behind him until I call for a taunt?

Scrilz
04-17-2009, 08:39 AM
Can you post some info on your raid setup with the videos? Just number of tank and healers would be great.

deramon
04-17-2009, 08:42 AM
I was watching your video again, you were getting only 2 drill thingys coming up every 45 seconds, occasionally a 3rd with a sentinel. Last night we were getting 4 and sometimes a 5th with a sentinel and I believe they were coming every 30 seconds. if it was a matter of only having half the raid on each side that would be simple...but with having 4 coming up with 12 guys it was nearly impossible.

deramon
04-17-2009, 09:12 AM
Ciderhelm when was this video taken? PTR? Pre or Post Enrage Timer fix? Just curious.

reasonyousmile
04-17-2009, 09:21 AM
I was watching your video again, you were getting only 2 drill thingys coming up every 45 seconds, occasionally a 3rd with a sentinel. Last night we were getting 4 and sometimes a 5th with a sentinel and I believe they were coming every 30 seconds. if it was a matter of only having half the raid on each side that would be simple...but with having 4 coming up with 12 guys it was nearly impossible.

We had the same trouble yesterday, but on a 10-man grouping. It felt like we were playing luck-of-the-draw with the adds - sometimes we'd score 4 total (2 for each group), and sometimes we'd pull 10, incl. sentinels. Perhaps our DPS was slow, but sometimes it looked absolutely ridiculous.

I'm starting to think there's a trigger for all these adds... it couldn't be a random thing to screw raids over like that, could it?

izziT
04-17-2009, 09:32 AM
@Deramon. It sounds like you have 4 squads running around, killing what they can get their eyes on?

It would be much easier for you to have a "right" and a "left" group. A tank or two in each, and a suitable amount of healers. This group should be placed between the middle of the circle, and the harpoons. This gives you less movement-time, and thus a higher DPS.

You should have a for each of the big fellas (those who WW's) and take care of those rather quick. As their WW will kill melee-dps nearby quite fast. The 2nd threat to your dps and healers is the spell-casters - which is beautifully pointed out in the movie. The rest of the mobs (the small dwarves) is easily off-tanked, as we had 1dk tank 4-5 adds and he still only needed a heal every now and then (I was that healer).

The first time the adds will "respawn" is when the engineers makes it to the fourth cannon. They use 20 seconds on each harpoon, so when the 3rd one is ready, you should have the majority of the adds down.

Remember that the npc's (guardians i believe, they're called) can tank and dps as well. They have 400k hp, and should be tanking the small dwarves.

When the 4th harpoon is ready you should off-tank the newly spawned mobs, and get the ground phase over with. As delaying the harpoons will require more mana, and time, as you will be getting more adds.

If you find DPS to be your weak side. Find a way to lessen travel-time. Tank mobs closer to eachother. Assign melee to one specific side, and let the ranged stand in the middle - the healers at the harpoons, as that's the only thing that will gimp your dps.

bludwork
04-17-2009, 09:44 AM
good explanation for p2.

the porno music was relaxing too

Erichilles
04-17-2009, 09:53 AM
theres a big brown circle on the ground directly in the middle of the area. i suggest those who are having trouble tell their raiders not to leave that circle under any circumstances. this helps keep things organized aswell as making sure you're nearby when she lands

Gústav
04-17-2009, 09:59 AM
I honestly don't have an answer to the question Gustav, as that was our first time going into Phase 2 during the raid. I don't believe it's a result of her breath but I could be incorrect.


Donors, the movie will be up in about 20 minutes for download.


I will update you in this post if this is happening or not!

deramon
04-17-2009, 09:59 AM
No we were getting 4 transports at a time so each group would take one transport. I made a post on the wow forums about it and most people seem to say that this video was probably taken on the PTR before it was finished being tuned, which is why I asked the question if it was done on the PTR, 3.1 Pre Enrage Nerf or 3.1 Post Enrage Nerf.

Gústav
04-17-2009, 10:11 AM
As I said earlier that I will update you if the tanks could stand next to eachother at the "permanent grounding phase". This is now confirmed in the 10 mans, ---> The MT and the OT can be possitioned at the same place while moving around while taunting off. We just did it! :P

GL!

brain
04-17-2009, 10:14 AM
I was watching your video again, you were getting only 2 drill thingys coming up every 45 seconds, occasionally a 3rd with a sentinel. Last night we were getting 4 and sometimes a 5th with a sentinel and I believe they were coming every 30 seconds. if it was a matter of only having half the raid on each side that would be simple...but with having 4 coming up with 12 guys it was nearly impossible.

Your strategy for killing the adds is too slow. If you are trying to dps the groups down individually I would recommend you use an AoE strategy. It cuts down on the amount your raid has to move resulting in more damage output.

I haven't watched the video, but our strategy is just a simple AoE the adds, with an extra tank pulling out the whirlwind guy to be single target DPS'd by range.

Use 3 tanks total.

lurker253
04-17-2009, 10:49 AM
Is there a /tar macro for the sentinel? I need my DPS on him immediately.

Does anyone know the sentinel's exact name?

deramon
04-17-2009, 11:17 AM
okay I understand dividing it into 4 is slow but when I have 5 transports come up all over the place it makes it quite difficult to grab them all. The point of my posts is this video is showing only 6 adds out at a time and 7th sentinel, our experience was 12 adds at a time along with a sentinel. Yes I know if you group them up you can AoE them but with 12 guys, 4 of them able to chain lightening and wipe the group, there is something wrong here.

I wish Ciderhelm would answer about when this video was taken.

Radius
04-17-2009, 12:59 PM
My raid also encountered alot more drills than shown on the video, I hope its not just the RNG, or else more people are going to be complaining next week.

We tried it once having everyone to the east (where the video shows) because someone thought that the lava bombs only formed inside the circle. We found this not to be the case we moved back into the circle. But then I got to thinking about who was always "newbing it up and standing in the flames" in our raid and after watching this video again, it looks like the person closest to the center of the circle is always the target (when the spell is cast) If thats the case then the sentenal tank is the perfect person to stay there, since the melee doesn't have to run to kill the sentenal (throught the fires).

izziT
04-17-2009, 01:05 PM
okay I understand dividing it into 4 is slow but when I have 5 transports come up all over the place it makes it quite difficult to grab them all. The point of my posts is this video is showing only 6 adds out at a time and 7th sentinel, our experience was 12 adds at a time along with a sentinel. Yes I know if you group them up you can AoE them but with 12 guys, 4 of them able to chain lightening and wipe the group, there is something wrong here.


How far "up" are you taking the adds? Where the drills pops up?

Lore
04-17-2009, 01:20 PM
Also note that, if you don't generally have trouble with DPS deaths in phase 1 (or have enough druids that you can reliably battle rez them), using Bloodlust/Heroism on the second burn is slightly better as it lets you carry over the buff into the first part of Phase 2.

Beatzz
04-17-2009, 01:27 PM
could anyone give me a ballpark figure on avg raid dps per person, for razor? We get him to phase2 after 3 lands not 2 and this is really hurting us on his enrage.

Kerchunk
04-17-2009, 01:55 PM
Great Video Ciderhelm (as always).


There's one important point that you do not make in the video that I think is key information:

Devouring Flame does not target individual players. Much like Shirrak the Dead Watcher's "Focus Fire" ability it targets the spot on the ground where the player was standing when the spell was successfully cast.

Keeping this in mind, if you assign one raid member to call out Devouring Flame targets, those players can begin moving and will be out of range of the AoE damage before the spell even lands. Using this method effectively you can avoid all incoming damage from Devouring Flame (at least prior to the ground phase).

izziT
04-17-2009, 02:02 PM
Wow Web Stats (http://wowwebstats.com/o1iysnzhsunyu)

This is our damage-report for a takedown i believe (my net went down two tries before the takedown)

izziT
04-17-2009, 02:15 PM
If the flame doesn't contain a yellow "spark" inside the flame, and doesn't "headshot" you, an aoe-flame will appear, and if you move immediately, you can avoid it. I have spel-details on high, which may be why I can see it.

Kerchunk
04-17-2009, 03:19 PM
If the flame doesn't contain a yellow "spark" inside the flame, and doesn't "headshot" you, an aoe-flame will appear, and if you move immediately, you can avoid it. I have spel-details on high, which may be why I can see it.

You're overcomplicating it.

Like I said, Devouring Flame (the blue streak) does not seek to a player, it targets a spot on the ground where they were standing.

You don't have to wait until it hits you to figure out which spell it is. You should already know ahead of time, and if you're the target of devouring flame you can move BEFORE the spell even gets to the ground.

Gertiploiss
04-17-2009, 03:54 PM
Do the same adds spawn on 10? I would think one would be left out on 10 man

izziT
04-17-2009, 04:25 PM
You're overcomplicating it.

Like I said, Devouring Flame (the blue streak) does not seek to a player, it targets a spot on the ground where they were standing.

You don't have to wait until it hits you to figure out which spell it is. You should already know ahead of time, and if you're the target of devouring flame you can move BEFORE the spell even gets to the ground.

I just didn't find there was enough silence on Vent to call it out, as we call out dps-targets and ground-phases. But we all do things differently.

Buyakha
04-17-2009, 09:19 PM
Hello everybody. We are attempting 10M first and we are having an issue with the Sentinel. We are bringing the standard 2 tanks (DK and Pally) but since each of em are on one of the sides with the adds the sentinel starts killing ppl really quick... How can we avoid this?

mavfin
04-17-2009, 11:05 PM
Just wanna say thanks to Lore, Cider, and the Tankspot crew for these videos. Got my first peek at Ulduar tonight, and these videos helped us take down Razorscale and Deconstructor tonight in 10-man normal on the first time in for most of the raid. A couple of them had been in on killing Leviathan Wednesday night, but they had wiped on Constructor a bunch of times that night.

Kerchunk
04-18-2009, 01:48 AM
I just didn't find there was enough silence on Vent to call it out, as we call out dps-targets and ground-phases. But we all do things differently.

True, but if you want to nitpick being able to avoid all incoming damage from devouring flame should take priority over calling out DPS targets.

DPS targets should be simple: Sentinels, Rune Watchers, then Guardians. Shouldn't really be a need to call these out as everyone should be aware of target priorities and be aware of which mobs the tanks have threat on.

stphung
04-18-2009, 01:58 AM
Beautiful video as usual Ciderhelm. I had a question though, our group is running 10 man Ulduar and many times we have people taking two fireballs in a row which can lead to a quick death. Is there any way to mitigate this factor?

izziT
04-18-2009, 03:24 AM
True, but if you want to nitpick being able to avoid all incoming damage from devouring flame should take priority over calling out DPS targets.

DPS targets should be simple: Sentinels, Rune Watchers, then Guardians. Shouldn't really be a need to call these out as everyone should be aware of target priorities and be aware of which mobs the tanks have threat on.

Even more true :p Our dps wasn't given any priorities, as we didn't have any, but with that above-mentioned one, it defo clears for flame-callouts.

Muffin Man
04-18-2009, 03:53 AM
I just didn't find there was enough silence on Vent to call it out, as we call out dps-targets and ground-phases. But we all do things differently.

You can also set Razorscale as a focus target, turn on target of target and enemy cast bars. And you'll have an idea of where the fireballs are ending up.

@Bayukha today they assigned me as the Sentinel tank. First attempt they told the other tank to pick up all the adds. Second attempt they assigned us each a side and I was still on the Sentinels.

It's a lot of movement either way, but the trick is the Guardian and Watcher will usually attack the Expedition npcs when they spawn. So you have some time before you have to pick them up. For instance I just waited until the Sentinel died.

Franciz
04-18-2009, 10:21 AM
Hello
Does the same count for 10 man? and what about melee dps?

Damianogre
04-18-2009, 11:19 AM
My guild tried Ulduar for the first time yesterday site unseen. Got past that machine boss after 7 FUN tries. This guy Razorscale raked us over the coals. I love your guides. I'm gonna make the whole guild watch this video and go in there tonight and try again.

Beatzz
04-18-2009, 11:29 AM
Hot fix for Razor

Quote From MMO

Several changes to the Razorscale encounter have been made including the range and damage of the Dark Rune Watcher’s Chain Lightning being reduced, and the radius of Razorscale’s Devouring Flame being slightly reduced.

Blackpepper
04-18-2009, 03:08 PM
Hello. Thank you for the guide. This encounter reminded me of the last boss in Rampart. My guild downed Razorscale(10man) last night after few attempts and I'd like to share our experience.

Our MT (warrior) died early in phase 2 so I(feral) had to tank the entire phase2. I kited her in a big circle around the raid until I had 5x Fuse Armor on me. I tried to shift out of Fuse Armor while tanking but it did not seem to work. When I had 5x Fuse Armor on me I was stunned and aggro was dropped. At this point we thought we failed but our hunter managed to kite her for 20+ seconds (Razorscale doesn't move very fast and has no single target ranged attack) until I could move again. Ranged kiting could possibly be an alternative strat for phase 2 if tanks have trouble surviving the flames.

Ciderhelm
04-18-2009, 10:05 PM
Am testing the waters with a new guide format that references Stratfu. This is with explicit permission to do so from Kyth and we're checking out how we can work together on getting the best information out to the community.

Aerona
04-19-2009, 08:41 AM
I have done attempts on 10 man Razor that have had at least twice as many add spawns as this video had. Sometimes two or three of the big whirlwind guys came up at the same time. Brutal. I'm not sure if this is intended to be purely based on luck, or if there are cooldowns involved, or maybe a limit of how many of each type of mob can spawn pure boss attempt but they can spawn at any time.

In any case, it hasn't been mentioned here already:

If you have a lot of adds left up when the Harpoons are ready to fire and your healers are on your game, you can group up the adds infront of Razor while she is trapped. When she breathes the fire to break the chains she will also do heavy damage to the adds. It won't outright kill them unless they're low, but it helps.

Thank you for the videos, Tankspot. I thoroughly enjoy them and learn a lot from them. :)

Slab
04-19-2009, 03:50 PM
If you have a lot of adds left up when the Harpoons are ready to fire and your healers are on your game, you can group up the adds infront of Razor while she is trapped. When she breathes the fire to break the chains she will also do heavy damage to the adds. It won't outright kill them unless they're low, but it helps.

If you use this tactic (my guild too are experiencing high numbers of adds) will the tanks dragging them in front of the flame not also take heavy damage?

We're trying to let the Defender friendly NPCs do some of the off tanking too since we might as well use their HP to soak up some of the damage. Still a work in progress however.

Dap
04-20-2009, 10:25 AM
Ok this might sound like dump question but we were getting 4-5 machines where dwarves spawn from but in the video it's only 2-3. We got her to 1% on our best attempt. Did we do something wrong?

Ulyeney Venoli
04-20-2009, 01:15 PM
Hey all,
Using Bigwigs it alerts me when devouring flame is coming. Is it possible to avoid any damage from that spell (the blue poo) by moving, or does the initial impact follow you like a normal spell?

Thanks for the great guide and tips.

duboisdubois
04-21-2009, 03:23 AM
Tried this boss yesterday (monday) on 25mans and we failed on adds alrdy. We had 3 groups (4-5 dps in each) of dps who were supposed to deal with adds and i think that were to many groups. I wonder if its better to just have 2 groups consisting of 7-8 dps in each dealing with adds? We managed to kill this boss on 10mans ofc then with 2 groups, maybe do the same on 25mans cus as it is now the adds become to many and we get owned after awhile....

Grayc
04-21-2009, 10:04 AM
I'm kiting her because that's the first thing I thought to do when we entered Phase 2. That was our first time reaching it and all I knew is she dropped flame patches beneath her. :p

I'd bet it's just fine to keep her stationary and sidestep the patches. That's why I didn't say anything about it.


I know it is bad of me... but I havent read every reply SINCE this comment...

It is EASIEST to kite Razorscale.

10/25man completed, Myself and our MT (I am DK, he is Warrior) Simply kited Razorscale following the path of the circle. ALL Heals, and caster DPS stacked in the middle of the circle.

Melee should be on the sides, not directly behind. I simply walked next to razorscale, and as soon as I needed to, taunted off the MT and assumed his position in front of Razorscale.

It is also easiest to switch tanks after you get a 2 stack of the slowing debuff NOT the flame buffet.

Edit : The reason for kiting around the circle, is now your casters, both DPS and Heals dont have to move, thus drastically increasing damage, and healing done.

We found Phase 2 (The grounded phase) to be MUCH easier than Phase 1. And whoever said use lust on the 2nd time she lands is not correct. Moving into phase 2 quicker drastically reduces overall raid healing, and and less people having to worry about flame patches on the ground. Survivability drastically increases in Phase 2 (ground phase)

Use your lust the second Razorscale come down the first time, and try to have her at less than 70% health, so the next time she comes down, you can get her to 50% and move on to Phase 2.

Grayc
04-21-2009, 10:11 AM
Hello everybody. We are attempting 10M first and we are having an issue with the Sentinel. We are bringing the standard 2 tanks (DK and Pally) but since each of em are on one of the sides with the adds the sentinel starts killing ppl really quick... How can we avoid this?


Both stand NEARER the middle.

Sentinel's are a priority. If your DK has the gear, he should always be within gripping range, and ALWAYS have the cooldown rdy to reach a sentinel. If memory serves, the sentinel wont actually be gripped, but i think the range is 5 yds farther tan taunt, and it taunts him. Then have the dk move towards him and pick him up.

Kancho
04-21-2009, 11:39 AM
How important is it to keep the NPCs alive (the guards that engage the adds) during Phase 1/2? Does it affect the rate at which the harpoons are ready to launch?

I saw that some comments said it was okay to let them tank the adds briefly. A few of our attempts we got crazy RNG and multiple sentinels/adds and I am wondering how critical is it to taunt the adds from the NPCs?

Also, going into phase 3 do we want to make sure all adds are down before we ground Razorscale? Or is it okay to have some up and let them die to to incedental raid DPS?

(We attempted 10 man, not sure if the questions/answers will have much difference between 10/25).

Thanks for the great video, btw :)

Jonfreak
04-21-2009, 11:48 AM
Hey i wanted to ask u something, I got her down in 10 man but we are having problems at the 25 stragety.

- How are u dividing ur raid DPS coz we have 2 tanks with the adds and 1 just for the sentinel ... we take half of the dps to 1 tank and the other half to the other tank ... and we ask to all range dps to nuke the sentinel when it comes out ... but at somepoint the tanks with the adds are full of adds, i think maybe the mistake is to take all the range DPS to nuke the sentinel but still i dont thing it takes that long to bring him down :mad:...

-Another question ... how can the hunter in the vidio suvirve when he activate the harpons? coz we try that way and we used a rogue but razorscale nuke the rogue all the time with 3 fireball- after this we put the raid close to the harpons again...

Grayc
04-21-2009, 01:17 PM
How important is it to keep the NPCs alive (the guards that engage the adds) during Phase 1/2? Does it affect the rate at which the harpoons are ready to launch?

I saw that some comments said it was okay to let them tank the adds briefly. A few of our attempts we got crazy RNG and multiple sentinels/adds and I am wondering how critical is it to taunt the adds from the NPCs?

Also, going into phase 3 do we want to make sure all adds are down before we ground Razorscale? Or is it okay to have some up and let them die to to incedental raid DPS?

(We attempted 10 man, not sure if the questions/answers will have much difference between 10/25).

Thanks for the great video, btw :)

We didnt lose any NPC's to the adds. got a tank on them fairly quickly. The adds near the harpoons must survive, the ones out in the field are less important, but help.

Make sure all adds are on the offtank, not the main tank for P3... all ranged raid dps should kill them quickly, as they should be about 50% health or lower, while melee moves to Razorscale


Hey i wanted to ask u something, I got her down in 10 man but we are having problems at the 25 stragety.

- How are u dividing ur raid DPS coz we have 2 tanks with the adds and 1 just for the sentinel ... we take half of the dps to 1 tank and the other half to the other tank ... and we ask to all range dps to nuke the sentinel when it comes out ... but at somepoint the tanks with the adds are full of adds, i think maybe the mistake is to take all the range DPS to nuke the sentinel but still i dont thing it takes that long to bring him down :mad:...

-Another question ... how can the hunter in the vidio suvirve when he activate the harpons? coz we try that way and we used a rogue but razorscale nuke the rogue all the time with 3 fireball- after this we put the raid close to the harpons again...

We split our raid into left and right. All ranged new to move to hit the sentinel's, and then went back to their prospective sides. You can CC the casters (watchers I htink) with fear/cyclone, w.e, sheep isnt the best here b.c of incidental damage, where the target wil be sheeped.

Sounds like unlucky fireballs. But send a healer in range of him as well. Most of our raid stayed inside the circle at all times, and was in healing range. We DID leave the circle, dont get me wrong.. but there isnt MUCh reason to, except to avaoid the flame patches.

Gertiploiss
04-21-2009, 01:24 PM
We did it in 5 tries or so. Took us three pull downs to get her. I (OT) died instantly both times. Our MT tanked through the debuff and we got him after 5 members or so died.

daregeth
04-21-2009, 01:44 PM
we ran 10 man on razor and are having a prob finding the best place to tank the adds, should we wait for them to come to us or go grab the adds from the npcs and would it be better to bring a thrid tank to help grab them up?

and is there a 10 man vid for the fight up?

Gertiploiss
04-21-2009, 04:39 PM
10 man is no significantly different from 25. You should go pick them up, dont let them run about. Tank them where they are, the raid should be able to adjust.

Grayc
04-21-2009, 06:08 PM
10 man is no significantly different from 25. You should go pick them up, dont let them run about. Tank them where they are, the raid should be able to adjust.


Wait for the ones in the way back to move toward the raid, the raid shouldnt move to them...

Sempx
04-22-2009, 06:09 AM
So basicly, for this fight 3 tanks are needed.
Does that goes for 10man aswell? =)

Horacio
04-22-2009, 06:20 AM
We killed Razor Monday night on 10 man. She's tricky, but if you stand around long enough, you'll find people to tell you she's easy and 'ur just bad' I hate those people.

We had 2 tanks, both prot warriors that jumped on mole machines as soon as they surfaced and immediately when mobs came out, we TC'd and SW'd to lock them down. We had our rogue beating the hell out of watchers and they melted. Guardians got eaten up by AoE. If a Sentinal pops up, the other tank peels any other mobs off that tank one by one and we range him down.

We set up on the far side of the area and split the tanks apart with everyone else in between. It was simply a matter of efficiently DPSing the adds and staying out of the fire. When the harpoons were ready, we sent a ret pally over to shoot em and finished off any watchers still up. Tanks drug the remaining guardians over to beat on Razor and they generally died to incidental damage like rogue's blade flurry and shockwave, chain lightning from the shaman, consecrate from the pally, etc.

It wasn't too bad handling all the adds with just two tanks but alot depends on the frequency of Sentinal spawns. They suck and it seems entirely random.

For us, this was hard but my 10 man raid is pretty casual and we expect to be on a longer learning curve.

Tashur
04-22-2009, 09:22 AM
So we were attempting Razorscale this week. Last week, I felt like we had finally mastered the mechanics. We grounded Razor in 2 phases (technically, he took off after the 2nd, but came back down from DoTs ticking). This week, it seemed like the mole machines were far more plentiful and the adds were everywhere. Did the devs increase time between mole machines, but increase the number that spawn simultaneously, and/or the number of adds that come out?

LxDraco
04-22-2009, 04:03 PM
Ok so quick question... I feel last night we botched the razorscale encounter up on 10man because we were waiting on 4 turrets since there are 4 starting the encounter but you are saying that only 2 are required to bring her down? Well that explains the long wait for the 3rd one.... resulting in lots of pain and death lol

Catmilk
04-23-2009, 12:15 PM
Ok so quick question... I feel last night we botched the razorscale encounter up on 10man because we were waiting on 4 turrets since there are 4 starting the encounter but you are saying that only 2 are required to bring her down? Well that explains the long wait for the 3rd one.... resulting in lots of pain and death lol

Yes, in 10 man they will only fix two turrets and two will ground her for the burn phase.

Alve
04-24-2009, 08:34 PM
Thank you so much for this. :)
I have a question, I can't seem to find any movie on Flame Leviathan, am I just blind? :)

Frenzzee
04-25-2009, 07:52 AM
Question? were having issues with 2 watchers spwaning each time a turret comes up and cant seem to find the interupters to break the chain ligthing and continously are dying form tht is there an ezer way to avoid the watchers cast or ar we just gunna have to keep moving through it and interupt as many as we can?

Grayc
04-25-2009, 09:26 AM
Question? were having issues with 2 watchers spwaning each time a turret comes up and cant seem to find the interupters to break the chain ligthing and continously are dying form tht is there an ezer way to avoid the watchers cast or ar we just gunna have to keep moving through it and interupt as many as we can?


Tanks interupt fast as possible... If there is NOT a sentinel up, all dps should be on the watchers, once they are dead, they dont cast chain lightning. Normally when we get 2, the first one is dead before it can cast chain lightning, so we only have to survive, one, maybe 2 total.

LxDraco
04-25-2009, 12:10 PM
Also i have a question about the turrets coming up, it seems you stress moving quickly on the final turret to get her down is this because of the raid wide dmg from the aoe fire patches or is this because... in my experience the mole machines come much more frequently upon that final turret being ready. their numbers often become so large its difficult to gather them, keep the tanks up and avoid the aoe fire patches all at once.

Frenzzee
04-25-2009, 12:16 PM
Tanks interupt fast as possible... If there is NOT a sentinel up, all dps should be on the watchers, once they are dead, they dont cast chain lightning. Normally when we get 2, the first one is dead before it can cast chain lightning, so we only have to survive, one, maybe 2 total.


Ty i guess i should have explained more, i know tht guilds are hainv the same issue we are. we use the same strat cinderhelm posted. # tanks both ot's on either side and my in middle. For the first turrets (mole machines) tht come up were gettin 3 turrets contsisently with 1-2 watcher per turret so all 3 tanks are busy with the Mt's targets gettin priorty b/c of sentainls. So about every 10-15 secs were gettin turrets 3 at a time with a sential thrown in there every now and then. Lookin at otehr vidoes and some tht are post here at tankspot not ONE video ive seen has as many adds as were gettin it seems or ppl jsut havnt posted what were gettin.

It sounds like im whining i know but is there something were doind wrong me being on of the OT's all 4 of the guild tanks are completey dumbfounded and we dont know what else to do. Is this abnormal or are other guilds out there gettin the same thing as we are? If so id like to hear what you guys are doing so i better my guild with good news.

Frenzzee
04-25-2009, 12:19 PM
Also i have a question about the turrets coming up, it seems you stress moving quickly on the final turret to get her down is this because of the raid wide dmg from the aoe fire patches or is this because... in my experience the mole machines come much more frequently upon that final turret being ready. their numbers often become so large its difficult to gather them, keep the tanks up and avoid the aoe fire patches all at once.


I wouls agree, i dont know if its true tht when you have 3 turrets launched the add come faster or what. Maybe were jsut gettin really bad luck with this. (Frenzzee-us-arathor)

Trulsrohk
04-25-2009, 12:55 PM
From my experiences on razor in 25 at least, is that the adds stay the same as the forth turret becomes available.
Our guild usually waits on activating it until the adds are just about dead and before another wave spawns so we don't have to worry about them during the burn phase to maximize dps when boss is grounded.

Ibanezgio
04-26-2009, 10:44 PM
Hey, seems a fair few ppl are having the same probs we are in 10 man with there being a LOT of adds spawning at once. The first 2 waves, not a problem. However then we seen to get 3-5 mole machines at once (as left hand tank i've spotted 3 in front of me a couple of times), which is also pretty much on the harpoon ready time. And we can't cope. If any of ya have suggestions of coping with this they'd be appreciated.

Daimon
04-27-2009, 12:17 PM
This has being our brick wall, like 2-3 days of wipping in this guy in 25m, we tried several ways, splitting raid in 4, 3 and finally 2 is the best way, left and right, after losing tanks by WW of sentinels (hits for 30k on a Naxx25 geared tank), losing ppl to chian lightning of watchers, and 2ble fireball 2 shoting ppl.
Some times we get periods when all the adds are dead and no machines spawn for like 5sec, sometimes we get 5 at the same time, we found that:
1- Sentinels spawn from the mole closer to the circle, the central one (have 1 tank only in sentinel duty)
2- Moles machines spawn zone is higher in between NW and N corner (if you think N is 12o'clock looking the circle from the turrets)
3- Every 2min you can drop the drake down (every 30secs a turret get fixed) then the drake is down for 30secs. Meaning if you don't get him down to 50% in 2 rounds, wipe and try again, more than that is equal to 3 times turrets repair + 3 times 30secs stun = a bit more than 7min with an enrage timer of 8min, so you won't down 50% in a min if you didn't do it before.

** Dont make ppl collapse in small areas, have them think is like KT fight and they must be spread, so the Flame hits less everytime.

Best raid composition so far we've encountered is: 3 tanks (2 OT, 1 Sentinel Tank), 6 healers (good healers) and 16 dps. This fight is a dps race, so using Heroism/BL in the 1st drop is the best choice.

2nd phase is a kite along the circle line w 2 tanks and central DPS/Heals.

Typical fight where 10m is a cake and 25m a pain in the butt (Thaddius much?), for 10's:
2 Tanks
2-3 healers
5-6 DPS
The sentinel tank can grab him along w the other adds, just make mele step out and help the other tank while range take him out.

Because
04-27-2009, 09:34 PM
i've been in a guild run where we didn't do much of what you did on a ten man....we spread around the ring and had 2 tanks...we had one tank in the center and the other gathering adds...and we just aoe'd them to death...and since spread around the ring we would have 2 people to trigger phase 2...at that point the tanks just held onto add and healers healed em and all dps focus on her of course moving in just outside her breathe weapon range...and then in phase 3 our tank was right there to grab her and well we dps'd the adds and her in an aoe blitz while side stepping the flames..

Magertena
04-29-2009, 01:42 PM
Do the Watcher/adds keep spawning after your fire last harpoon on Razorscale? In your video it looks like one sneeks to the side and fights one of the Dwarf NPC's. If so... how do you handle them..do you ignore them and have tanks..taunt them when Razor goes back intor Air phase?

Last question when your kiteing razorscale when do you decide to swap tanks? ie how many stacks..Thanks

merlinn
04-29-2009, 10:32 PM
Fantastic video! I love the soundtrack on this one, and on many of the other videos. What's the song title/album? I wish I could go buy/download it so I can play it during raids :o)

Grayc
05-01-2009, 11:38 AM
Do the Watcher/adds keep spawning after your fire last harpoon on Razorscale? In your video it looks like one sneeks to the side and fights one of the Dwarf NPC's. If so... how do you handle them..do you ignore them and have tanks..taunt them when Razor goes back intor Air phase?

Last question when your kiteing razorscale when do you decide to swap tanks? ie how many stacks..Thanks

Every 2 stacks. Tanks can pick up adds when RS is down from turrets. Once RS is grounded, make sure one tank holds any remaining adds, and dps kills them fast

Dormungus
05-05-2009, 09:07 AM
After looking over my achievements, I noticed that I got Close Shave on my first 25man kill. After 2 hours of wiping, the planets aligned with the moon and the stars....DPS lived and all that jazz. The thing is, I'm pretty sure we brought him down more than 3 times. The kill was on the 24Apr. Anyone else have a similar experience? I know one of the "big" raid guilds(horde side) just got it last week. Was this a bug? Am I reading the achievement wrong?

Dloir
05-07-2009, 01:42 PM
After watching this video several times and wiping on this boss multiple times I have a few questions. The achievment A Close Shave is for grounding her and going into phase 2 before she can fly back up a 2nd time. But watching your video you kill her in 8 mins doing this. If you let her fly back up a 2nd time and ground her and go into phase 2 on her 3rd landing can you still beat the enrage timer? Seems to me that they wouldn't require you to get a achievment in order to beat the enrage timer.

hergeir
05-12-2009, 05:53 AM
why is it needed to kite the boss ?

Squashed
05-12-2009, 05:59 AM
The fire-breath puts fire on the ground that the tank needs to move out of. It has an immobilizing cast time, so Razorscale pauses. Moving in a circular kite path tends to prevent you from taking more than 1 (if any) ticks from the very strong breath and fireball ground-DoT.

amnimaa
05-13-2009, 12:18 AM
i have no idea about 25man but when me and my guild were making our first few attempts on 10 man we seemed to notice that the sentinels would for some reason spawn and usually cause more havoc than would be liked but after reviewing it closely and discussing when to release the harpoons we noticed if one harpoon was released as soon as it became active and the second one the same way we would get sentinels and we would release both at the same time we would receive a steady flow of two waves with two mole machines each by the time both harpoons were ready so two weeks in a row now we've done it that way and its become more easy just throwing that out there :)

Magnus2
05-21-2009, 08:05 AM
As amnimaa mentioned if harpoons are shot as they become ready mob spawns times increase and your raid will quickly become overwhelmed.

To successfully take Razorscale down harpoons must be shoot all at once. This will ensure that mob spawns will remain consent throught the first phase.

My raid has tested this on several occations and it is confirmed.

Toshik
06-04-2009, 07:46 AM
Hello,

I've noticed a couple of questions above on 10man strat, but still no answer other than that 10man is much easier. Does anyone have a similar video but for 10man and/or melee/ranged raid positioning/tanking tips with 2 tanks? Thank you.

Squirrelnut
06-22-2009, 09:54 AM
Razor is an easy fight, however we want to get the required achiev on the way to getting our protos and I was just wondering if anyone knows how low the mobs should be for her breath to kill them. We have been preoccupied with doing the other hard modes so I haven't really tested it much.

Surmaaja
06-23-2009, 09:03 AM
around 10-15%

Sergentrock
06-28-2009, 08:51 PM
Our guild has downed Razor a few times on 10-man, but on 25-man we are having trouble with the initial tank aggro when going into phase 2. Tonight I taunted her 3 times in a row and she just ignored me. Is there a trick to gaining that initial threat? Thanks

Squirrelnut
06-29-2009, 07:51 AM
I have never had an issue with taunts, but if you want to simply be the top threat spot in general leave one of the guardians alive when Razor is down as your personal rage generator, then you can do a full rotation on her to get the most threat. I have begun carrying around mobs as my 'rage batteries' because of our broken rage mechanics; terribly sad bandaid fix but it gets the job done until they resolve our issues.

Hali
09-22-2009, 07:01 AM
We are trying for the first time tonight the achievement for the drake on 10 man. Could someone give me a good strat for making it happen?

Composure
10-03-2009, 03:18 AM
What effect does hand of freedom have on debuffed tanks?

Muffin Man
10-05-2009, 02:19 PM
I assume none since Warbringer fails to clear the debuff.

Shadowknigt
05-28-2010, 08:41 AM
I looked on your UI page and your unit frames looked different from the ones you got here. Which addon is it you use in this video and which settings?