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lucero
04-15-2009, 01:06 PM
Hey there gang,

I've got a conundrum going on with my new spec. Feral tank, btw. Obviously I have to put two points into Imp MotW now, which has cost me two points elsewhere. I found a hybrid spec pre 3.1 that I really like, but it cost me feral charge to make it happen. I've found this to really not be much of an issue.

However, I've seen some fights from Ulduar that are making me consider putting a point back in it. I saw other discussions on here about the real necessity of Imp LotP, and I'm thinking of taking one or both points out of it to take feral charge (the other point could stay in improved for 2% or maybe reduced bash CD or IW (I don't normally take IW b/c our MT is a warrior and it pretty much always gets overwritten).

Can others chime in on how they feel about Imp LotP and/or what they are doing to compensate for putting two points in Imp MotW?

Thanks in advance, and I look forward to an educational discussion!

Sincerely,

Lucero

edit/addendum: My spec is still somewhat of a hybrid, and yes, there are some talents I take for kitty that I could easily drop if I wanted a full tank spec, but I act as the OT (although I have yet to find an encounter I can't MT) so the viability is nice.

Here is one way the build could look without imp. leader: The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=11&tal=0000000000000000000000000000503232132322010353 100300310511205303012000000000000000000)

Here is another way: The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=11&tal=0000000000000000000000000000503232132322010353 100300313511205500010000000000000000000)

This is essentially my "no charge" pre 3.1 build, but points taken out of imp. mangle to take imp. motw and gore: The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=11&tal=0000000000000000000000000000503232132322000353 120300310511205203012000000000000000000)

blackhand
04-15-2009, 02:36 PM
Well the first question is, is there another feral in your raid? You both don't really need it if you are talking min/maxing. But if you are in an OT situation I say you need it. An OT needs to be able to live just as much as a MT should. Taking away an extra heal for some more dps is not really a good idea in progression raiding.

EDIT

Oh and honestly just take 2 points from Furor, you won't miss them at all.

lucero
04-15-2009, 03:09 PM
Oh and honestly just take 2 points from Furor, you won't miss them at all.

Really!?! I was totally debating that. I haven't really had any rage issues AT ALL during wotlk so far. Not a bad idea at all.

Stikyhooves
04-17-2009, 01:58 PM
I've been struggling with the same thoughts.

In one hand it seems like ImLotP is a terrible idea. Two talent points for what are relatively minimal heals once every 6 seconds.

On the other hand, with the new content out there have been times in fights where I wondered if that lil bit of heals would be the difference between live a dead dps.

Here is my base tanking build:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?druid=0000000000000000000000000000503232130322010 353100303010511203503012000000000000000000&glyph=000000000000&version=9767

This is still with my last 2 talent points hanging loose. I don't feel as though there is any defenative place they have to go.
- I could go Shredding Attacks for dmg when I am popping kitty as an OT
- I could go ImpMangle because hitting my Mangle button is fun, but it isn't a make or break threat issue.

And then there is ImpLotP... sitting quietly and tempting me.

Can anyone offer up a solid argument to it's usefulness?

If not I may say to heck with it and spec into them, then report back with my findings.

Thoughts?

-Stiky

---
Also note: I am the only feral in my raid. (/cry) And I am often the MT. My dual spec is a pure DPS spec.

blackhand
04-17-2009, 11:58 PM
This is still with my last 2 talent points hanging loose. I don't feel as though there is any defenative place they have to go.
- I could go Shredding Attacks for dmg when I am popping kitty as an OT
- I could go ImpMangle because hitting my Mangle button is fun, but it isn't a make or break threat issue.

And then there is ImpLotP... sitting quietly and tempting me.

---
Also note: I am the only feral in my raid. (/cry) And I am often the MT. My dual spec is a pure DPS spec.

Well 2 points in Imp Mangle will only help when you are in cat form. our GCD is 1.5 seconds so mangle would be off cool down during a GDC which is not going to help at all. Also since you are the only feral, I'd keep the two points there since it's a very unique buff to the raid which you can't get other wise I believe.

Stikyhooves
04-19-2009, 02:02 PM
What I meant by hitting the Mangle button was, it has a 6 sec cooldown, and shortening that cooldown lets me hit it more often. (every 4.5 sec) It does considerable damage which adds to threat. (But like I said, a very nominal amount)

I think for tonight's raid I will see how the added heals help. Will report back soon.

/salute

Genova
04-19-2009, 07:05 PM
Well 2 points in Imp Mangle will only help when you are in cat form. our GCD is 1.5 seconds so mangle would be off cool down during a GDC which is not going to help at all. Also since you are the only feral, I'd keep the two points there since it's a very unique buff to the raid which you can't get other wise I believe.


Im confused how making a 6 second ability into 4.5 seconds is a bad thing? Could you explain this better?

blackhand
04-20-2009, 05:17 AM
Im confused how making a 6 second ability into 4.5 seconds is a bad thing? Could you explain this better?

Improve Mangle is a 3 point talent, each point knocks off .5 seconds to it's cool down. The GCD is 1.5 seconds. So to have the ability up so you can use it you need to lower it's cool down by at least 1.5 seconds (the GCD). With only 2 points which I was referring to earlier build, you wouldn't get the full 1.5 seconds off it's cool down. Thus you are not using mangle any faster since it would come off cooldown during a GCD.

Genova
04-20-2009, 06:40 AM
Ahh, Ok... that makes more sense haha... I was just confused the way you worded it in that earlier post.. Now that you say that it did throw the rotation I use off a bit, I seem to be at the point of refreshing lacerate at the exact moment it comes off CD.

Stikyhooves
04-20-2009, 11:40 AM
I see what you were saying now. I too couldn't make sense of what you said before earlier.

And the results of my test are sketchy at best. I need to look over it again, but when I went to re-review this morning, my recount had slipped back to data from a 5 man run.. go figure. But suffice to say I am still not convinced if it was worth the points. But since my hard data died overnight...

I'll get back with ya. /nosetothegrindstone