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lovecow
04-02-2009, 07:18 PM
on my realm ive seen many Deathknights be either frost or blood ive yet to see an unholy MT id like to tank in unholy spec currently i am a dps unholy if at all possible i was hopeing to get some help as to wht my tree should be and a rotation below is my current tree any help would ne very helpfull ty josh :D

World of Warcraft Europe -> Info -> Classes -> Death Knight -> Talents (http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/deathknight/talents.html?tal=221212120000000000000000000200000 00000000000000000000002212003321231132031500031331 31)

Deathliche
04-03-2009, 02:21 PM
I am an unholy tank on the US-Server Tortheldrin. I am by no means geared to the degree that some people are, but I have done a lot of research on this. My armory link is posted below. Personally, after many, MANY respecs this is the build that I have come to prefer. I feel it is a very tight build and is useful for both AoE and single target. I ran a 25 man OS today as the OT and pulled 3450 dps for the #3 spot, and had a very easy time dealing with adds. This is my build, Ive come to love it and everything that goes with it. If you have another person in your guild who brings unholy aura, you could drop those points wherever you want, but its my job in my guild to bring it.
WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Death Knight -> Talent Calculator (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/deathknight/talents.html?tal=205500000000000000000000000005000 00000000000000000000000352023301201150501002231231 51)

My rotation is DnD -> IT -> PS -> Pest, UB, SS-> SS-> BB -> Pest for AoE and IT-> PS -> SS -> SS -> UB, for single target, using deathcoils and corpse explosion as RP dumps for single target and AoE respectively. Whatever works for you is what works for you, this is just a build I really enjoy.
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Tortheldrin&n=Deathliche)

Yahto
04-03-2009, 04:40 PM
For a long time Frost has been my favorite tree for tanking. Not because people archetyped it from a very early time to be THE tanking tree, just because I like to throw ice around lol (and that Howling Blast is the coolest spell ever).

Unholy tanks do very well with AoE situations and is the best possible way to tank adds in OS (not the drakes just to clarify). However, they don't have much if any snap aggro, it's all over time. On the initial pull however UB is going to get them right on you for a moment. Adds are one of the weaknesses to Frost DKs, because if you don't have enough blood runes for a pest or HB or both, or the unlucky situation where that last mob doesn't get hit by pest, then you can't do much except Empower Rune Weapon and hope that situation doesn't happen again in the next 5 mins. UB solves all of these problems simply and effectively.

As far as boss aggro, I haven't done extensive tests regarding this, but I have never seen an unholy tank do more than 8k patch TPS. In fact the only class to EVER beat me on patch TPS are pallies and even then I needed BoSanc to keep up with him. Pallies are h4x. W/e.

If you really are dead-set on speccing unholy for tanking, don't follow the above poster's spec. Many points are wasted on unnecessary talents. The below spec should give you optimal AoE and single-target threat without sacrificing any mitigation talents in the process. I will also link my armory so you can refer to my frost spec and my gear as reference.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0EMZhxZfg0Ix0oxcV0cout)
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Mal%27Ganis&n=Yahto)

Final notes: For MTing, unholy is probably not your best choice. However if you are just going to OT or tank adds in OS, then yes it is an excellent choice. The above poster's rotation is sound minus the Corpse Explode since the build I posted will not contain it.

Deathliche
04-03-2009, 05:14 PM
What's wrong with my spec? Where are unnecessary points being spent aside from Unholy Aura? Besides that, unholy suffers from the lack of mitigation talents frost has. It comes with the territory. Just because frost is able to MT better doesn't make it any more sound of a tree to tank with. You cannot always say "I am the MT." As unholy you will spend more time as an OT, that's the way it works. If you truly want to MT, yes frost is better atm. The key part of that is "atm". Frost will be hurting. Bad. as soon as 3.1 goes live, which currently looks like a week and a half. So if you really want to start to get into frost, then have the nerf bat beat you to death, that's fine by me. I apologize for the rant and QQ. Pointers on my spec would be helpful, if you feel that it is sub-par. I find that I frequently am used as the "caster tank" for my guild, which is why I am specced into improved anti-magic shell btw. I have found that many times having the permanent ghoul is helpful. I have used night of the dead and dark pact to successfuly save my group from a wipe on the last boss of heroic azjol' nerub from 20% of his health, on my own, using that many times. Necrosis is nice, yes, but I could not find the points for it. Desecration is not as useful as it would seem, as many adds are not only immune to the slowing effect, but most dungeon bosses require a large amount of movement and you cannot rely on having it up all the time, especially if you are using the glyph of Scourge Strike to maintain DoTs. Ebon gargoyle causes massive dps, wandering plague causes mass AoE damage, which means extra threat, and On A pale Horse is not only good for utility, but the fear and stun reduction means that in places such as the last boss of UP I am able to spin and taunt him so he doesn't gank my healer after the stun.

Yahto
04-03-2009, 05:26 PM
On a Pale Horse, Master of Ghouls, Night of the Dead, and Summon Garg. Magic Suppression is slightly situational in that spell resist and Magic Shell only makes the biggest impact on fights like Maly or Sarth. (You addressed this as I was typing this <_<). Also 9/10 I actually am MTing whatever boss it is. And Frost single-target threat is getting buffed. HB 'nerf' isn't even a concern since rime procs will reset the cooldown and its damage is being buffed. Note that in an earlier build frost was nerfed HARD. Newer builds suggest otherwise.
The only reason I ever do not MT is if I need to kite Gluth zombies or on Saph because he has hella frost resist.

Yahto
04-03-2009, 05:31 PM
Just for clarity's sake define what you mean by caster tank apart from the obvious and what fights you do so on.
Yeah, permaghoul is great for on-demand death pacts. The last time I ever used death pact was when I was doing a heroic boss without a healer because he died 5 secs in. lol. As for Desecration, I had been meaning to do some threat tests to see how effective it is at AoE aggro (it probably is not worth it as you said).
Side note on UP: There is time in between when the stun breaks and when the boss starts attacking again and I'm pretty sure it doesn't drop aggro, so even if you did nothing in that time slot he would still run to you.

Deathliche
04-03-2009, 05:37 PM
My guild uses a warrior main tank for the majority of our runs. He has high mitigation, as expected, so I am more often relegated to bosses such as Heigan, where it isn't as important to be able to take a large amount of melee damage. As I said earlier, this is my own personalized tanking build. I tailored it to both my and my guild's needs. I do understand what you are saying about UP. I still feel safer taking the points in On A Pale Horse for overall utility, because really, unholy is the utility tree for deathknights.

Yahto
04-03-2009, 05:45 PM
I can live with that. My spec and most peoples' specs don't include gimmick talents like -magic dmg unless they really don't want to respec for maly if they even need to.
I agree. Save possibly the self heals from blood, but that's not raid utility at all. Unless you count the major glyph for rune tap which really is not worth it if your healers know what they're doing.

Deathliche
04-03-2009, 05:48 PM
After reading your comments on this I went back to the talent calculator.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0E0oZ0xZcgMItbkxcoMfout)

Thoughts?

For clarification, my glyphs are Bone Shield, Scourge Strike, and ghoul.
I apologize I think I fixed the link.

Yahto
04-03-2009, 05:50 PM
Looks exactly the same as the one I posted, maybe you didn't click 'Link to This Build' on the top-left of it? I also went back to the talent calc and judging from your needs I slapped this together
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0EMZ0xZfg0IzboxeoRckut)

K that link works... Whenever I was using rune tap for leveling and as blood tanking (for less than an hour :( I didn't like it) without imp. rune tap it always felt like a low heal. Here's a slight mod of that spec again:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0EZ0xZcgMItbkxcoMcsut)
As for your glyphs, Bone Shield, Rune Strike and DnD seemed to be the most helpful, the last one being just because I had the intention of mainly AoE tanking when I respecced unholy for a while.

Deathliche
04-03-2009, 06:01 PM
You know what, I really like the build you just posted. I'm about to tank 10 man naxx (not sure if ill be the OT or MT) and give it a shot. Ill post my results and top TPS/DPS afterwards, along with the patchwerk data.
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0E0oZ0xZcgMItbkxcoMfout)
The build I'm going to test.

Yahto
04-03-2009, 06:02 PM
Cool. Glad I could help. PM me if you have any other questions.
If I do happen to catch you before you go, replacing Unholy Command with Vicious Strikes will definately increase your single-target threat.

Deathliche
04-03-2009, 08:49 PM
Alright, I found that build I posted 2 posts above this to work VERY well. I pulled 300 dps more (2160 dps) in 10 man naxx, and we only wiped once. I was the OT, but it worked extremely well and the blood tank had a hard time keeping aggro from me on Maexxna. A great build, I'm going to stick with it.

Deathliche
04-03-2009, 09:02 PM
Lovecow, I apologize for the mini-war over specs. Hopefully somewhere in here you found the answers you were looking for.

lovecow
04-16-2009, 08:28 AM
Thank u guys :O for the feedback:)

shawnyboy
04-17-2009, 08:20 PM
well deathliche, i have an aspiring unholy dk(72) "Gonadieclown" and i have been looking for a layout that included on pale horse, but i think i'll put the point in for Master of Ghouls cause I love the extra dps on single targets especially since im still grinding (yawn). I let ya know how well it worked

shawnyboy
04-18-2009, 01:30 PM
UPDATE--holy

shawnyboy
04-18-2009, 01:34 PM
UPDATE---holy crap that layout works good. Up'd my DK's dps almost 150-200 on just normal grinding. Average 900+-- not bad for a 72 unholy. Thanks Deathliche!! You da man! :)

Nunes
04-18-2009, 02:15 PM
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0E0cZ0xZbxhIzczLIVocsux)

Tobis tank
04-18-2009, 03:37 PM
This is the spec i am gonna try for bit. Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0EZ0xx0hZ0ghGzbdxuq0cshb:poA0Mm) Let me know what u think.
i put the master of ghouls in there so i can get the extra health from death pact if i get in trouble

Tobis tank
04-18-2009, 03:53 PM
kk plz tell me which is better cause i cant see the good blade barrier dose Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#jZhxxLhZ0ghGzbdxuq0cshx:boA0Mm)

Nunes
04-19-2009, 01:33 PM
kk plz tell me which is better cause i cant see the good blade barrier dose Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#jZhxxLhZ0ghGzbdxuq0cshx:boA0Mm)

Are you serious?

Tobis tank
04-22-2009, 05:33 PM
yes i am cause DK are evasion tanks so the point is to not take dmg. i cant see why they got rid of the parry
and 5% is not very much dmg reducer to waste 5 talnet points on